well i think i found what i'm looking for in a train layout. posted by pcarrell in his 4x8 track plans post. it want be just like it. as i will add a double mainline all the way around, also i will try to incorporate a passing siding on both mains somewhere, also a passenger station, plus i like the placement of all the buildings you have placed throughout the layout will keep as you have, also will add a 1' x 8' x 1/2" extension to the bottom of the yard area to actually make this layout 5'x 8' and placing additional sidings on it makng it a 7 track yard, haven't decided on the scenery but i have some ideas. please tell me what you think about this and if you think about this idea/plan. any pointers will help.
pcarrell: if you read this could you please tell me how long are your runs getting trains from one elevation to the next, and also could you please tell me the radius' for your turns on this layout.
thatboy37 wrote:thats it just add some ups and downs on there somewhere, and it can be viewed from walking around the layout
thats it just add some ups and downs on there somewhere, and it can be viewed from walking around the layout
Then I would change the triple-lap mainline to a single track twice around. What you've got right now is in effect a three-track slot car track. I think what you're talking about doing is adding some more visual interest, making it more realistic.
In N scale you only need about 2" of elevation so you should be able to do it as an over and under; otherwise, I'd still go with a twice-around but just have the crossing be at grade level and then have the two loops at different elevations...in N scale if the inside loop is only 1" above the outside loop, that's a difference of around 13 scale feet and will make a huge difference visually. That would also allow for some nice scenic features, like a road crossing the outer loop at grade and going under a bridge on the inner loop, two bridges at different heights crossing a stream etc.
If you want to keep multi-train operation, I'd at least drop it down to a double-track mainline and get away from the strict oval shape. Have the area where the straightaways are now bend in a little bit so you have kind of a peanut shaped mainline. You could then use part of the current inside loop as a long yard lead, so you could switch the yards while one or two trains are running on the mainline. If the lead is long enough, you could even have the yard elevated a 1/2" or so above the rest of the layout to give it some visual interest.
KingConrail76 wrote: thatboy37 wrote:thanks for all the advice. i will do some of the thins said beause i really want the upper level or some type of elevation, disapperance or something to that effect. i will keep the three loops on the bottom, remove the round house and place on second level, also i will remove the top nine sidings that have the hoppers on it plus the extnsion to the roundhouse. now with that being said would it be possible to add a more realistic second level with a double track main going from level to level with the radius of 17 3/4", and 16". help please i'm lost as to how to incorporate this in with the adjustments.I may have missed it, but it doesn't seem you've clearified what you mean by "second level".Do you mean a FULL second level (another layout set approx. 24 inches above the table you have)? OR do you mean you want to add some ups and downs like in natural terrain(2 to 6 inches height difference, but all viewed on the current "level") ?If you're talking about a whole new Level (or Deck) above what you have, according to Atlas Right Track software, to elevate 24 inches(2.3 inches high per level/circle) with an 18 inch radius you would need a Helix with 10 full circles on a 2% grade, this gives you a total linear length(length if you stretched it out straight) of 99 feet, and to build that you would need a 40 inch circle of space somewhere(just for the Helix).
thatboy37 wrote:thanks for all the advice. i will do some of the thins said beause i really want the upper level or some type of elevation, disapperance or something to that effect. i will keep the three loops on the bottom, remove the round house and place on second level, also i will remove the top nine sidings that have the hoppers on it plus the extnsion to the roundhouse. now with that being said would it be possible to add a more realistic second level with a double track main going from level to level with the radius of 17 3/4", and 16". help please i'm lost as to how to incorporate this in with the adjustments.
I may have missed it, but it doesn't seem you've clearified what you mean by "second level".
Do you mean a FULL second level (another layout set approx. 24 inches above the table you have)? OR do you mean you want to add some ups and downs like in natural terrain(2 to 6 inches height difference, but all viewed on the current "level") ?
If you're talking about a whole new Level (or Deck) above what you have, according to Atlas Right Track software, to elevate 24 inches(2.3 inches high per level/circle) with an 18 inch radius you would need a Helix with 10 full circles on a 2% grade, this gives you a total linear length(length if you stretched it out straight) of 99 feet, and to build that you would need a 40 inch circle of space somewhere(just for the Helix).
Let's back up a second...when you talk about adding a second "level", are you talking about adding a second deck - i.e. another section of layout above the existing one - or are you just talking about elevating some track on the existing layout?? In N scale you need about 2" clearance, so at a 2% grade you would need about 8.3' of track to raise the track high enough for say an over-and-under twice around.
As to the DCC, although it isn't necessary it wouldn't hurt to make the roundhouse area and yard separate blocks, it's nice sometimes to be able to be sure all the engines in the roundhouse are off or to be able to isolate blocks to check for shorts, or to set up a signalling system.
As to the track plan - 14 yard tracks?? I think the problem is you have "staging" on your layout. I would cut the yard down considerably, and try to find an off-layout place for staging, like say a 1' x 4' extension. You don't need to cram all your cars onto the layout, leave yourself room for scenery and a roundhouse, engine facilities and industries (hey, doesn't do any good to have a big yard if there's no place for the cars to go except round and round. )
I'd reduce the triple track mainline to double track, or a single track twice-around. Get away from symmetrical ovals - let the track bend in and out a little, kinda like a peanut shape. That will look much better. I would add a reverse track cutting across the interior, especially if you go to a single-track twice-around. Trains start at off-layout staging, do their stuff on the mainline, then reverse direction and eventually go back to staging.
Unless you add a helix someplace OFF the layout you show, all you're gonna have is a rollercoaster of track. Keep in mind, a "Second level" would need to be maybe 24" higher than this level, perhaps more, for you to be able to SEE the bottom level once it is covered up.
selector wrote: As for a second level, how will you fit its ramp into the usable surface that you have left after all the track you have laid...according to my understanding of your image? Keeping the grade up or down to a reasonable 2.5-3%, you will need something like 20' to get the separation you need to enjoy the full use of both levels (just an off the cuff guess). Where can you get 20' of ramp (grade) into what I see?
As for a second level, how will you fit its ramp into the usable surface that you have left after all the track you have laid...according to my understanding of your image? Keeping the grade up or down to a reasonable 2.5-3%, you will need something like 20' to get the separation you need to enjoy the full use of both levels (just an off the cuff guess). Where can you get 20' of ramp (grade) into what I see?
so you mean i will need twenty actual feet of running room to make this transaction happen smoothly. i was thinking of taking some of the yard out already and eliminating the round house. say i add 1 more row to the yard the that has 4 rows of staging to it and removing the rest of the yard and round house. do you think i would have room then?
thatboy37 wrote:1st being that my whole layout will be dcc would it be a good idea to go ahead and wire the yard and the round house to the main.
2nd would it be possible to add a second level on this layout with what i have as track placement. also being able to get a train from level one to two and explain if you could.
3rd what should the track spacing be for n scale around curves mine are 1 & 3/4"'s center to center.
1) I would make each loop and the yard seperate electrical zones. You can use one power system and protect each zone with a taillight bulb.
2) Very difficult. Perhaps you could make the entire outer loop into a sort of helix? That would of course limit sight and reach into parts of the lower level.
3) I think your spacing is sufficient but I model in HO not n scale.
3-1/2) Selector makes good points.
Karl
The mind is like a parachute. It works better when it's open. www.stremy.net
Straight up, I'll answer you based on what I see and can make sense of in your image and in your post.
I don't know exactly what you mean about wiring the roundhouse and yard up to the main. The main in railroading is the main track, the set of large ovals you have...one of them, at least is "the main." What you may want to do is to wire the ovals separately off of an underlying bus of heavier gauge wire joining your power station. Or, wire them all together. Your choice, except that when a problem occurs on one of the three wired together, they'll all be shut down simultaneously by the short protection cirtuitry.
I would wire my yard separated from the rest of the layout, and give it its own short protection.
Lastly, although it is unsolicited by your questions, I feel strongly that you have two problems: too much track, so not enough scenery potential, and what track you have in the ovals is way too close to the edges of the bench. You'll be picking at least one nice locomotive up off the ground in two or more pieces when it leaves the track for any number of reasons.
I hope you get more feedback to help you to figure out where you should be going.
1st being that my whole layout will be dcc would it be a good idea to go ahead and wire the yard and the round house to the main.
2nd would it be possible to add a second level on this layout with what i have as track placement. also being able to get a train from level one to two and explain if you could. here's the layout.
3rd what should the track spacing be for n scale around curves mine are 1 & 3/4"'s center to center. i hope i got enough space for the kato superliners and atlas autoracks not to clip anything going around curves of 19 1/2", 21 1/4", and 23" radius's.
thanks in advance