I know there are many commercially available abutments out there but most are cut or random stone. I have seen so many different types and dimensions on this forum it make me think many of you build your own. If you make your own what do you use? If you have a place with a good selection please share.
I am in the proccess of assembling the ME tall trestle and would like a couple fair sized abutments for this bridge.
This is the location.
Many thanks.
John
A piece of sheetrock. Can be carved to look like concrete or stone.
Dave H.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
From what I see in the photo, you could make cardboard "forms" and pour plaster for a poured concrete look.
I have made some HO scale abutments/piers from MDF and others from cabinet grade plywood. I havn't yet taken the time to find a place to host pictures, so I'll try to describe.
I make them in (2) pieces. A "Vertical", and a "Base"
First, I make the "vertical" abutment/pier by cutting a strip of 3/4 inch thick cabinet grade birch plywood (or MDF) to my width (width of Right Of Way+1/2 inch)<surface grain running the long direction>. I then put a 1/4 inch to 3/8 inch bevel on the (4) vertical corners of the "Vertical"strip. (you could also use a router and make a Half-round edge instead of angular beveled corners). Lastly I use a chop saw to cut the strip into several "Verticals" after I determine the height (clearance+roadbed+track-"base").
For some, this may be all you need. I add a "Base" to my piers. Like a foundation.
I figure my "Base" dimensions by adding 1/2 inch to the width of my "Verticals" and 1/4 to 1/2 inch to the thickness of my "verticals" (3/4 + 1/4 or 3/4 + 1/2). I make the "Base" out of either 1/2 inch cabinet grade Birch plywood, or 3/4 inch MDF, depending on what my "Verticals" are made of. The "Base" gets screwed horizontally to the bottom of the vertically aligned "Vertical". I also shape the perimeter of the "Base" to match the "Vertical's" shape (beveled or rounded corners).
To me, when painted a concrete color, these look very realistic, and since I used to work in a Cabinet Shop, were practically free for me(only my time was expended).
The advantage to this method is that I can make them any height, and any width (multi-track bridges) that I need.
I like the idea of carving plaster after it has been poured and dried in a mold. I happen to have used scale timbers to make a dirt-filled abutment for my trestle, which would look great in your setting. I have also used carved extruded foam. The foam is plenty strong to keep from compressing significantly, so the weight of HO engines won't be a problem.
John,
There are many materials and methods to use for abutmants. On foam based layouts, many use foam blocks either carved or veneered with a casting.
I perfer to use a sub/abutment if you want to call it, that is actually a wood supporting riser. Since the clubs trackwork is either wood spline or 3/4 ply cookiecutter, any cut out track needs serious support. These wood abutments are carefully shaped to accept a 1/4-3/8" thick plaster casting. These can be of concrete or stone.
This pic the castings are being positioned and shaped
This shows the base supports and abutment, no finished pics yet
In this pic the right one is finished, the center pier is a plaster laminated wood block. The one on the left will be cut stone.
You may need to do some serious layout and kitbash of the ME viaduct. You will need to layout the towers in a way to span the lower track with the 50' girder section. Towers use a 30' girder span. Also use the ME bridge flex track.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
I use shaped foam blocks for abutments. I found it easiest to bond several blocks together to make more complex shapes. When the foam is sanded and painted it looks just like concrete.
George
bogp40 wrote: This shows the base supports and abutment, no finished pics yet
Bob,
At the point where the girders resting on the bridge shoes meet your wood abutment, do you build the bridge short to allow for your scenery to fit between the abutment and girders, or do you treat the end of the wood subroadbed to look like concrete? I'm planning on using the Micro Engineering Tall Steel Viaduct to span a ravine, but I don't have my abutments or scenery planned for the area yet. Do I need to build the bridge first, and then fit the scenery to the length of the bridge, or do I build scenery and abutments first, then cut the bridge to length while building the kit?
Thanks,
Don Z.
Research; it's not just for geeks.
Don Z wrote: bogp40 wrote: This shows the base supports and abutment, no finished pics yetBob,At the point where the girders resting on the bridge shoes meet your wood abutment, do you build the bridge short to allow for your scenery to fit between the abutment and girders, or do you treat the end of the wood subroadbed to look like concrete? I'm planning on using the Micro Engineering Tall Steel Viaduct to span a ravine, but I don't have my abutments or scenery planned for the area yet. Do I need to build the bridge first, and then fit the scenery to the length of the bridge, or do I build scenery and abutments first, then cut the bridge to length while building the kit?Thanks,Don Z.
Don,
I will do it both ways. If the bridge is "in your face" veneering the wood looks cleaner. If at any distance and not easily veiwed scoring and painting is good enough.
For the viaduct picture the end of the girder is spaced to slip some styrene or basswood in. I will hold this up to under the rails so it acts as a ballast stop. The shelf is intentionaly cut so that the shoes barely sit on the abutment edge. Once the plaster casting of the concrete look are positioned the shoe will have the proper fit. I just paint the notched area to the concrete color and weather. The first pic of the concrete abutments the pine 1x was carved at the shoe shelf notch to simulate stone and painted.
I also made the tower footing from clear pine and built them tall enough to allow the slope of the scenery and rock castings that I hope I can get to working on sometime soon.
As far as scenery to towers or visa versa, your best bet after building the curved girder section(ME instructions do show how to do this with templates and girder miters) is to build the towers so you have them as full reference for any adjustments for shortening to fit your elevations. The bridge in the pic was installed by altering the benchwork and adding any supports to fit what is planned for the scenery contours. The concrete footing were built to the heights needed to install the bride to exact specs.
This bridge was somewhat difficult due to the track starts from straight into an easment to a superelevated 54" radius. I drew a template from the cut out section of spline and drew the centerline. This was used to layout the 30' and 50' girders and disc sanded them to miter for the perfect fit to the centerline. When curving the ME bridge flextrack I found the most accurate method was to cut a new template from 1/4" MDF to bend the track to (inside of the ties) so you bend the track around the template. I find that ME track, although very detailed, doesn't bend too well w/o kinks. Varying styrene shims on top of the girders set the superelevation.
Since both ends of the bridge were handlaid, I was able to allow the rails to extend beyond the abutments and be spiked to the ties. This allowed very good bridge anchoring and didn't have to rely on any rail joiners. The Code 70 guard rails are CAed on the flex but also allowed to extend as the stock rails and spiked after bending them inwards.
Don Z, as you can see by my photo I put some scenery where the bridge was to go with the understanding that I will have to remove a great deal of it in order to insure the bridge fits properly. I just finished making some footings from pine and attempted an abutment but I did not like the abutment so tossed it. I may try again but done for today on that project.
On the lower track I plan to have a wall extending down from the track so it will look a bit suspensfull there also. I plan to have two tall as they come in the kit bents and one I will modify.
So yes, build and fit the bridge first, It will be much easier. I did not have it yet so I put in the temp scenery.
spidge wrote: I know there are many commercially available abutments out there but most are cut or random stone. I have seen so many different types and dimensions on this forum it make me think many of you build your own. If you make your own what do you use? If you have a place with a good selection please share.I am in the proccess of assembling the ME tall trestle and would like a couple fair sized abutments for this bridge.This is the location. Many thanks.
Also looking at your picture, the left hand abutment looks like it may need to be angled somewhat to follow and clear the lower track. Yes, some cutting into the existing scenery is needed to set the abutment. I don't know what type of frame you have below. Maybe added joists and risers could be done. I find this best for positioning and overall strength, especially when cutting out the track. A 50' girder section should work for the span. I believe that ME has come out with a longer girder section (70 or 80'). this may be an option to get the span needed to clear the first tower. From the look of the overall span, you would need the 210' kit with an add on set that has the additiona tower and 2) 30' and a 50' girder. I found that contacting ME directly that any individual pieces can be ordered if needed.
As far as I know, ME still doesn't have a website. I have had no problem calling in orders and they are great people to deal with. I usually recieve products within a week.
Micro Engineering, 1120 Eagle Rd., Fenton, MO 63026 Tel (636) 349-1112
Hey Bob, I plan to use the 80' span to get over the track below and the first tower will have to have the footings modified to fit the scenery. There will be a retaining wall along the lower track adjascent the tower Then the rest of the bridge will be the 40' spans with two more towers. The radius actually gets a bit tighter as you move to the right in the photo so I am tied in to those spans. The 80' span is not for tight radius curves and where I intend to use it is the easement for that curve. Thanks for the info.
I use L-girder bechwork and I will be excavating the area soon to add the needed supports. I did make the foorings out of wood and will be adding a layer of smoothset with color to simulate concrete. I hope to have an update by Feb.
spidge wrote: I use L-girder bechwork and I will be excavating the area soon to add the needed supports. I did make the foorings out of wood and will be adding a layer of smoothset with color to simulate concrete. I hope to have an update by Feb.
A hint to getting the wood to more of a concrete look is to score it up with some rough sandpaper (#80-100), then coat w/ a couple layers of gray auto primer. If any wood graining still shows, sand and repaint. I only use scraps of clear whit or sugar pine for this. Basswood in the proper size is the most workable. I just have tons of the pine left over from every finish job.
What is the tightest radius? Using the 30' over towers and 50' between justs looks better to me. This may not be possible as you mention due to decreasing radius. You can only have just so much track/tie overhang w/o looking silly. The only disadvantage of using all 30' girders, is that the towers start to end up fairly close together especially when curved. A template of the track and scaling out the sections is the only way to tell.
bogp40 wrote: spidge wrote: I use L-girder bechwork and I will be excavating the area soon to add the needed supports. I did make the foorings out of wood and will be adding a layer of smoothset with color to simulate concrete. I hope to have an update by Feb.A hint to getting the wood to more of a concrete look is to score it up with some rough sandpaper (#80-100), then coat w/ a couple layers of gray auto primer. If any wood graining still shows, sand and repaint. I only use scraps of clear whit or sugar pine for this. Basswood in the proper size is the most workable. I just have tons of the pine left over from every finish job.What is the tightest radius? Using the 30' over towers and 50' between justs looks better to me. This may not be possible as you mention due to decreasing radius. You can only have just so much track/tie overhang w/o looking silly. The only disadvantage of using all 30' girders, is that the towers start to end up fairly close together especially when curved. A template of the track and scaling out the sections is the only way to tell.
Thanks for the finishing ideas for the wood footings. I made them from pine and its fairly clear so the paint would probably come out ok.
The girders that came in the N-scale kit are all 40' and I have one 80' span. The curve is 17" plus the easement. Even with the easement the dirrections suggest a larger radius, min 22" for the 80' span. I will have to do a more precise mock up to be certain if it looks ok.
I'll let you know.
Bob & John,
Thanks for your very informative answers regarding the abutments. I appreciate the help greatly. I think I'm off to a good start - I drew a template showing the centerline of the radius and the rails, divided the arc into 3 equal segments and then drew straight lines from the intersecting point of the rail and where the beam meet at each end of the segments to determine how long each beem needs to be.
Now that I understand what needs to be done to prepare for the abutment, I'll revise my drawing to allow space for the abutment and then have the correct length for each beam segment. I'm thinking of making a mock-up of the beams from some scrap styrene to make sure my method will work.
Once again, thanks for the help!
Didn't know you do "N". I was giving you HO sizes. If you do need the added length for that lower track crossing and the 80' won't work, The N scale is the same construction as HO. You can cut the girder down to the longest useable size and not affect the tie overhang.
Build one of the 40 spans to get familiar with ME's instructions and methods. I found that using small wood blocks (1x3-1x4) helped in assembly and squaring the assemblies. Once familiar with the construction kitbashing will be much easier. I use Faller Xpert, this glue really worked well for some of the long tedious joints on the tower girders. Testor's Model master works about the same. The long needle applicator makes all the difference.
When glueing the mitered girders to the template of the curve, make sure you do this on a solid flat surface. Any wracking or twist will cause a multitute of track work headaches. I actually used a torpedo level when setting the track. Of coarse I needed shims for the ramp up into the superelevation, but other spots needed shimming as well. Just can't plop a level or straightedge on a curved superelevated track. Eyeballing the railhead, placing shims and constant checking w/ rolling stock did help.
The best adhesive I found to secure ME bridge flex is Pliobond. I wish you luck and patience. The towers are the most time consuming. If you don't need all 3 stories of the tower. cut the bottom sections off and assemble as instructed otherwise.
This is a two part resin, need equal parts of each togather and mold, is just like clay, sets extreamyl hard in any shape you desire to form it. John