chessiecat - You don't sound like a know-it-all, you sound like a hobbyist wanting others to succeed. Thanks. Remember, I am asking for advice!
I live in a town with a quarter of a million people and cannot find a model railroad club to save my life. This forum is a great surrogate.
About five miles from me was (is?) my all time favorite layout featured in an MR publication: Cat Mountain. Its operations orientation and simple scenery inspire me still. I know there are other such amazing modelers nearby, but no clubs to be found so I very often find myself reinventing the wheel.
Then again, model railroading is often more of an escape than a social hobby. My own project (Stage I) is a simple Inglenook, with all track laid and wired. I am calling it "Willoughby Yard" after the Twilight Zone episode "A Stop at Willoughby"-an imaginary place which represents life as it ought to be which the main character dreams of on his daily train commute.
Crews
"Willoughby? Maybe it's wishful thinking nestled in a hidden part of a man's mind, or maybe it's the last stop in the vast design of things, or perhaps, for a man like Mr. Gart Williams, who climbed on a world that went by too fast, it's a place around the bend where he could jump off. Willoughby? Whatever it is, it comes with sunlight and serenity, and is a part of the Twilight Zone."
shayfan84325 -I need to do as you do, both in terms of economics and in terms of creating something like your pictures indicate that you can produce. Wow!
I will start looking at eBay and such for the used items, and I am going to practice with the airbrush before touching the layout with paint.
I do appreciate the help. A $75.00 airbrush purchase is probably to me what a $350.00 sound decoder equipped loco is to most modelers. I do not have a large hobby budget. Thanks.
A bit off topic, but for general consumption regarding economics of a hobby:
My ethics were formed as young teenager by my father and Model Railroader. One issue, way back then, had an item about supporting your local hobby shop where you can see and feel and even try out a product, and how that service has a cost and a value. About that same time and on my first layout, my father looked over my order form to a large mail order house and asked if any of the items were available locally and at what cost difference. He then suggested that the shop owner deserved his share when he had helped me select, or carried something that in seeing it, allowed me to decide to buy. I still use that ethic.I am squirming in that I am now about to subscribe to MR. In the past, I have always used the new issue of MR to propel me to the hobby shop, where I usually buy more than just the magazine and I enjoy the at-least-monthly pilgrimage. My decision to subscribe is the web site benefits MR now offers to subscribers-- but not to faithful readers. Harrumph! But I will still buy the annual publication at my hobby shop.
My ethics were formed as young teenager by my father and Model Railroader. One issue, way back then, had an item about supporting your local hobby shop where you can see and feel and even try out a product, and how that service has a cost and a value. About that same time and on my first layout, my father looked over my order form to a large mail order house and asked if any of the items were available locally and at what cost difference. He then suggested that the shop owner deserved his share when he had helped me select, or carried something that in seeing it, allowed me to decide to buy. I still use that ethic.
I am squirming in that I am now about to subscribe to MR. In the past, I have always used the new issue of MR to propel me to the hobby shop, where I usually buy more than just the magazine and I enjoy the at-least-monthly pilgrimage. My decision to subscribe is the web site benefits MR now offers to subscribers-- but not to faithful readers. Harrumph! But I will still buy the annual publication at my hobby shop.
Crews just remember that it just as important to practice with any airbrush to get the most out of it. The paint you use is important as old paint that has been used will sometimes have lumps in it so you need to strain your paint through a piece of old panty hose or a screen, whenever you can use new paint.
Keep the brush clean and one of my worst problems when I got mine was starting to spray directly on the model. Always start spraying before the pattern of paint hits the model and stop after the pattern passes the other end of the model.
I hope I don't come accross as one of those "know it alls" but these are just some of the mistakes I made and hope to steer you away from. I ruined several good models from some of my mistakes and had to strip the paint off of them and start over. Not Fun!
I wish you luck with your new airbrush and I think you made a good choice. Read the instructions that come with it but I wouldn't try painting fingernails with it!
Jim
Cool. Hope you enjoy your airbrush.
I don't venture into hobby stores much, and I use the walthers catalog primarily to know when to stop bidding on ebay. About 90% of the purchased items on my layout came from e-bay or swap meets. I suppose I'm cheap (I like to think of it as frugal), and I've had my disappointments, but I enjoy this hobby on a fraction of what many modelers pay.
In a way, my approach mirrors the ficticious railroad that I model. The Blackwater and Butte Creek RR operates on a shoestring and buys most of its equipment used.
If you need help running that airbrush, be sure to ask.
-Phil
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Phil, I'm not a rocket scientist; they are my students.
Okay, there being no one shouting, "No! Don't do it!" I think I'll order the Badger 200-20 Set sometime on Monday morning.
As to the replies thus far:
Shafan84235 - Open a Fingernail painting business? Yes, but a tanning business I imagine to be even more fun!
With shipping, the 200-SG on that eBay page it is about the same cost as the 200-20. I do like the gravity feed concept, but have tried neither it nor siphon, so it was not a deal breaker.
That is to say that the chief difference in cost is really only the hose. The hose and moisture trap verses the one that comes with the SG is apples and oranges-I would be buying that hose and trap anyway as the one I intend to order is the woven kind onto which I can attach one of my quick-disconnects-the same sort of hose I use for other duties on my compressor.
I called my hobby shop to see if they can be reasonably competitive (I didn't put it that way) and they said they could order the one I want and have it in about a week. For me, time is of essence, and, free UPS ground comes with my deal. My hobby shop will just have to make money on me selling me paints (and track, and rolling stock, and...)
Shafan84235 (subsequent post) -- The only drawback of the H in what I am looking for is that it is external mix. I see about an $8.00 difference (the H being less expensive), and hemmed and hawed over that and the 200-20 set; finally deciding to trust my instincts and go with the internal mix, especially given the small scale (N scale). Secondarily, I have used a couple of different spray guns for lacquering furniture and external mix is alien concept to me: It goes like this with the guns: put the stuff in the can, point, shoot and move. I like that.
ChrisNH - So far, I have never bought anything on eBay, and don't think I would start with something I know so little about (does it show?) as an airbrush.
Thanks folks,
I'd be a little nervous about buying a used one, too. The one I gave the link to is posted as brand new, never used. I think it would be a good buy.
You're right to be cautious when looking at purchasing second-hand.
I bought a used airbrush on eBay, but have no way to be sure it is working properly so I am not sure if a used one was my best choice. Money was an issue though, and a used brush is better then no brush. I am working on building a spray booth too.
I chose a paasche-H as my first brush because several model railroad authors have indicated they use this one quite a lot.
Chris
Before you buy, look at this on ebay. Buy it now for $40, brand new (with a video so you can start your own fingernail painting business! What a deal!):
http://cgi.ebay.com/Badger-Airbrush-200-SG-w-Video-Hose-Booklets_W0QQitemZ280190214413QQihZ018QQcategoryZ28111QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Unless someone wishes to dissuade me, I plan to order a Badger 200-20 (plus a hose which does not seem to come with it).
My reasons:
Pretty good reasons for this decision, I think. Any nay-sayers?
cregil wrote:Thanks! Y'all are answering my questions in the order they come to me-before I even post. Okay, I think I am down to single action with a small gravity feed, and hearing good things about Aztek, Badger and Paasche. If Internal Mix is the way for me to go, then Aztek is going to be it. rolleiman - Your message came in as I was preparing the above. The Badgers I was looking at seemed to get pricey. Because I like the frequent use of the word, "ease" concerning Aztek's, I was leaning toward them but considering the Paasche Model H. Seeing your site has me comfortable with the Paasche, but now I am looking at Internal and External Mix. From what I read, internal mix is for the finer work, and external suited for fine and broader coverage. I note your usage is on broad areas. I am wondering if the fact I am N scale suggests that I may be more well suited with an internal mix. If so, I think I can't go wrong with the A320, and the price is right-fining it under $50.00 (the set without the can of air). Thanks, again, everyone. This has been a great learning expereince. Now to curl up and read the Walther's "paint" section. Crews
Thanks! Y'all are answering my questions in the order they come to me-before I even post.
Okay, I think I am down to single action with a small gravity feed, and hearing good things about Aztek, Badger and Paasche. If Internal Mix is the way for me to go, then Aztek is going to be it.
rolleiman - Your message came in as I was preparing the above. The Badgers I was looking at seemed to get pricey. Because I like the frequent use of the word, "ease" concerning Aztek's, I was leaning toward them but considering the Paasche Model H. Seeing your site has me comfortable with the Paasche, but now I am looking at Internal and External Mix.
From what I read, internal mix is for the finer work, and external suited for fine and broader coverage. I note your usage is on broad areas. I am wondering if the fact I am N scale suggests that I may be more well suited with an internal mix.
If so, I think I can't go wrong with the A320, and the price is right-fining it under $50.00 (the set without the can of air).
Thanks, again, everyone. This has been a great learning expereince. Now to curl up and read the Walther's "paint" section.
I think a lot of people are happy with the Aztek brushes, the main thing is to keep them clean, whatever you buy. Pipe cleaners are cheap compared to a new airbrush. Regarding the size of work, you can actually get pretty fine with the Paashe H. Nozzles come in 3 sizes (1, 3, 5) each being more 'open' than the last. With a #1, and even to some extent the #5 as on mine, you can get a pretty fine line. The difference is in how much you open the nozzle. I use the 5 because that's what the airbrush came with. I actually bought it out of a junk bin at a hobby shop for about $5 US if I remember correctly. Had to spend another $10 for a couple parts and for $15 I was up and running with it. In my case, I do have other brushes so the hose and compressor were already here.
If you think of it like the spray nozzle on a garden hoze, at one extreem you have a pretty wide spray and at the other you have a thin stream. Same thing with an airbrush. What counts most in 'fine' work is the tip of the needle (which also you want to keep clean during use). The finer the point on the tip, the thinner the line you can get.
Remember, Practice makes perfect. Air supply and plenty of it (volume, not PSI alone) is probably one of the most important factors. Get on ebay or go to a swap meet and pick up a bunch of junk rolling stock to practice on. In no time, you'll be airbrush weathering your equipment like the pros.
Good luck, Jeff.
Loather -- I checked your link-Holy Cow! I have a HF a few miles from me, but, $12.99?!
I am not sure that the Model H, is the one my hobby shop had for $120.00. I'll pay more for something a store has on display and takes time to show me the features, but I won't pay twice the worth.
shayfan84325 - That a user of a double action brush says that it is probably overkill is really what I wanted to know--it is what I suspected. It also matches what my hobby store guy told me, and a double action system was also in the case for about $15.00 more.
I have a 2 gallon tank which charges to about 100 psi, with a descent regulator. I'm told I'll be all right with that. I imagine the compressor won't be running very much. Let me know, please, if I am overly optimistic in that regard. I mean, how long can I be holding the trigger over a 3-1/2" box car? Then again, painting and weathering track, maybe I'll find myself short.
Organic solvents? I do a lot of woodworking and try to stay away from harsh chemicals. I despise mineral spirits, acetone, and paint thinner. Would alcohol be one I may find myself using with paints? I use lots of that for dyes and shellac. It is cheap, safe, and forgiving. Typical woodworker-I know virtually nothing about paint-why would anyone cover up wood? So what other safe solvents might I look for?
Eye droppers-must buy eye droppers.
Re: John Allen-Amazing!
chessiecat - More good information that gets to my wavering parts and again matches my hobby shop guy's advice-that he has never used the larger bottom feed cups.
Big stuff will be track, and ballast. Medium stuff-structures. Locos, are and will be N Scale. I think I am now sold on gravity feed.
Pipe cleaners-must buy pipe cleaners.
As others have suggested or will, this hobby is never ending. Spend some money on a decent airbrush, invest a little in a compressor with a tank, regulator, and a water trap. Paashe (my preference) and Badger, you can't go wrong. Both have been around for ever. A single action with a mid size needle (#3) will do 99% of what you need. And, if you take care of it, you'll be passing the airbrush to your kiddies. Take a quick look here, particularly at the bottom.
http://www.rolleiman.com/trains/clinic1.html
If your hobby shop guy is asking $120 for one of these, that explains why the box looks so shelf dirty.
cregil wrote: chessiecat -- You didn't confuse-- good stuff. I looked online and saw several Badger 200 models available with the chief difference seeming to be whether it is gravity feed or bottom feed. All were around $50-60. I like that price.My hobby shop guy told me the airbrush he has does both, but he only ever uses the gravity feed cup. Is that a common means? I would think that the gravity feed is more efficient than a siphon in that the paint and mixture would be more immediately consistent – not to mention I assume it is easier to clean.Crews
chessiecat -- You didn't confuse-- good stuff. I looked online and saw several Badger 200 models available with the chief difference seeming to be whether it is gravity feed or bottom feed. All were around $50-60. I like that price.
My hobby shop guy told me the airbrush he has does both, but he only ever uses the gravity feed cup. Is that a common means?
I would think that the gravity feed is more efficient than a siphon in that the paint and mixture would be more immediately consistent – not to mention I assume it is easier to clean.
One other advantage the Aztec has over most airbrushes is the nozzles. They are pretty much bullet proof as far as the needles splitting the cone in the nozzle itself as the needles can only go closed so far. They say not to but I pull the needle assembly out of the nozzle and clean it and make sure that there is no paint buildup. The Badger has a needle that you adjust the flow of paint, it is no big deal but you have to be careful that you don't run the needle in to far as it will bend the needle or split the nozzle and ruin it. They are both replacable but can be hard to find.
I am not a expert with a airbrush by far but these are just a few things I have learned the hard way with my airbrushes as I will probably still be learning til the day that I die! These are just a few pro and cons I thought might help you make a decision. A good air brush is worth it's weight in gold once you get use to using it! Hope that this helps. Jim
I have a Paashe (sp?) double action. It's a little more tool than model railroading demands - I think single action would be fine. I've learned that air pressure is an important variable, so a reliable regulator and gauge are important. For most applications, I run mine at about 5 psi.
I use organic solvent paints, and they work fine with no clogging problems.
One other thing, a bunch of eye-droppers are a huge help when loading the color cup.
PS: John Allen didn't use an airbrush. That guy was seriously skilled in the use of the handle and hair type of brush. I love to look at his work.
A Paache model H single action with a cup on it is technically not a gravity feed. A true gravity feed has the cup mounted on top of the airbrush. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=95810
I'm thinking about trying one of these. Can't beat the price. I have a Paache H and like it. It won't do fine detail work and a good price on-line is around $50. ($120 is a ridiculous price)
I have the Aztec and a Badger 200 that I use to paint my models with and as I model 1/35th scale armor and HO trains I use different brands of paint, Tamiya, Floquil and Polly Scale. I have not tried to spray the cheap acrylic paint that I buy from Wal Mart. I use acrylic and solvent based paints in both of them and have had good luck with both.
The Aztec handles acrylic paint when it is thinned just right and I use the acyrlic nozzle. I have used the general purpose nozzle and the acrylic nozzle with acrylics but I find that they do have a tendency to clog over if you have a lot to spray at one time. It is easy to clean and after you get used to the trigger it is easy to controll. It works well with Floquil and other solvent based paints.
The Badger 200 works equally well with both kinds of paint but to me it is harder to clean but I believe it is easier to get finer controll over the paint pattern.
One of the biggest things I learned about air brushes is that you have to practice as there are so many variables that affect a painting session. When you are outside the temperature , humidity and wind. When you are inside try to use a paint booth or allow for adequate ventilation as the fumes from most of this paint are not good for you or your family.
These are the two that I have but there are many others that I am sure are favorites of others. Whichever one you get be sure to practice on some cheap models before you try to paint something you really want, clean the brush as soon as you are done!
Hope I didn't confuse you and these are just my experiences and opinions with these two airbrushes! Jim
Given the replies, I have one more question:
What are the functional differences and comparative limitations between double action and single action—between internal and external mix?
wjstix – Yeah-- It was Paasche! Thanks. That is good?
I do intend to use acrylics, and had not known of that gumming issue. I suppose that is one reason many Aztec fans have mentioned the ease of cleaning the tips.
I’ll need to read up on what spray finished are appropriate for sealing chalk-based weather techniques. I seem to remember that Dullcote is often used, but I do not know what sort of finish that is.
So, I am wondering, is that bottom of the line Testor’s the same one I referred to as seen at Wal-Mart?
kutter – Thanks for the welcome. It is nice to know you use yours so often, and I appreciate the cost/value/longevity component.
The temptation is to buy a tool I can afford without thinking twice, and move on with my current project. I just started a tiny little shelf layout, and after laying the track, was about to ballast, when I realized I had been in this position before: Third layout, and neither of previous two went as far on artistic realism as I wanted, and the stumbling block was always lack of air-brush for beginning that added “maturity”.
Thanks!
Welcome to the world of airbrushing. I use mine all the time, however...you want to buy one that will be there when you need it and not break after using it a few times. I think the single action will be perfect for all your using it for. Now the price thing. I would not get the wal-mart airbrush. This is a hobby that is never finished. So spend the money on the more expensive one and you should have it forever.
kutter
So you remember the name?? Paasche and Badger come up a lot. If you're going to paint acrylics, I've found internal-mix airbrushes tend to gum up inside because the acrylics dry so fast compared to other paints. After I was unable to use a couple of expensive Badger and a Testor's Aztec because of the acrylic paint trouble, I started using a bottom-of-the-line Badger external mix airbrush. It worked fine for several years with no trouble, later I picked up a super cheap Testor's external mix that I've used for the last 4-5 years. Ya it doesn't do as much as a double action internal mix and the spray maybe isn't quite as fine, but it works well enough for painting HO cars, engines, structures etc.
FWIW I use spray cans too - I find Tamiya spraycan paints work very well, make a nice even coat. I often use their light gray as a primer, then use the airbrush for subsequent colors.
I have been reading other threads which I did not wish to hijack, so...
I have never used a small artist airbrush. I'm going to weather track and rolling stock and structures. I'll probably do some painting and some sealing. I cannot imagine every doing tiny detail work-- it just isn't an interest. I already have a descent compressor with a two gallon tank and will add a moisture trap in line.
My local hobby shop has a single action, but recommended airbrush for about $120.00 (about $130 with tax). It looks like it has been in the case for ten years. I did not recognize the name—but that doesn’t mean much.
What little I have read seems to be rave reviews of the Aztek double action kits, and the 470 is only about $135.00 more with pretty much everything with shipping and taxes from a reputable retailer online and more included accessories than I can imagine needing, plus I can simply attach a quick disconnect and it is ready for my compressor.
How much airbrush do I really need? Any suggestions that I ought to go REAL CHEAP (such as Wal-Mart $25.00 cheap?).
Any suggestions on non railroad specific uses I am going to find for this that ought to influence my decision?
Thanks,