Bear "It's all about having fun."
Some momentary switches are momentary on and some or momentary off. You want a momentary on. Sounds like you have a momentary off. What causes them to buzz and melt is that the power is connected all the time and overheats the solenoid.
Since I haven't used powered snap switches in over 30 years I can't remember if they are supposed to be powered with AC or DC.
Dave H.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
The little solenoid in the snap switch can be powered by either AC or DC. But the power has to be momentary....I use a separate transformer...the same type as came with my Zephyr controller......I think it is 16 V @ 3 amps or something...I don't have it in my hand. It is good to fire a snap switch across a 25 foot room using only 28 gauge wire.
But I melted one....how.?...left something leaning on the switch for maybe 15 to 20 seconds.and didn't hear it.
The only way your switch is melting is that the way they are wired leaves the last one in the series continually on. Don't know how, but that must be it.
Check your wiring. You must have something permanently wired, as opposed to going through the momentaries.
Wired in series? That sounds like trouble if correct.
nedthomas wrote:Does the handle of the toggle switch spring return to the center position? If not, you do not have momentary toggle switches.
Yes it does, supposedly according to the toggle I bought.
Your description of your wiring is confusing. It sounds like you have constant power wired to the switches. Here's the way they shoud be:
The black (or white) negative wire from the power supply goes to the center terminal of every turnout -- jump from one to the next in a daisy chain.
The other wire from your power supply goes to the center terminal of each SPDT center-off momentary toggle switch, in daisy chain form.
A separate third wire goes from one side of each toggle switch to one side terminal of each turnout motor.
A separate fourth wire goes from the other side of each toggle switch to the other terminal of the turnout motor.
Each toggle switch should have the positive supply voltage wire going to its center terminal, and two other wires going from the toggle switch's side terminals to the turnout motor.
In this manner, the toggle switch changes the turnout position according to which side of the solenoid receives the electrical pulse when you throw the toggle switch. Don't hold a toggle switch on for any length of time or you'll burn out your turnout solenoids. They are supposed to receive only a short pulse of electrical energy.
No, I'm not sure what you are attempting to do either. Are you trying to wire them so that they all activate at once? That is possible, but I'm not sure if that's what you want.
Simply, if you want to save on the number of wires going back to your switch panel, you can connect all the turnout black common wires together. That will give you 11 wires going back to your panel.....a red and green from each of the five turnout and 1 common black.
Now if your panel is going to be the 5 momentary switches that you bought, you will have the 11 wires to deal with....you cannot have any fewer.
Now you have to have three wiring contacts on your momentary switches or you can't use them.
Now, you can daisy chain all the center contacts and attach the black common wire from the layout....then attach one power lead (doesn't matter which one) to this wired group.
Then you can attach all the greens to one side of each mometary switch....be sure to use the same side only for the greens. Then daisy chain them (I.E. make a common connection between all) and connect this to the other power lead. Do the same for the reds and also connect the them to the same power lead.
Thus you will have powered the common black set with one transformer lead, and both the reds and greens to the other lead.
Now, if your switches are really momentary, they will only fire when activated and instantly return to neutral. If they are not really mometary, get these from Atlas, which are the correct things to use, and come with fool-proof metal tabs to link them side by side on a panel. Thats what the screws on the sides are for. They are cheap and have always worked for me if one doesn't forget and lean on them while deaf.
Another possible problem -- are the toggle switches you are using center off, momentary in both directions. They should have been listed in the Jameco catalog as (ON)-OFF-(ON) with the parenthetical ON designating momentary contact in both ON positions. The ones I use are Jameco catalog numbers 75889 for a SPDT, or 75951 for the DPDT center off, momentary toggle switch.
bearman wrote:I've got one wire wired to the middle pole of the first switch and then jumped to the middle pole of the second switch etc. Then there is the other wire wired to the middle (black) wire of the turnout then jumped to the black wire of the second turnout etc. Then the other two wires are wired from the switch to the turnout, green to green and red to red. This is in series right?
Your wiring sounds correct but some things need to be checked. On your toggle switches, you're assuming (a word that indicates problems) the center terminal is the center pole of the switch. The best thing to do is test these toggle switches with an ohmmeter to deteremine if 1) The center terminal is indeed the pole and 2) they are momentary on switches (switch closed only when the toggle is pushed to one side or the other) and opens as soon as you release the switch.
cacole wrote: Your description of your wiring is confusing. It sounds like you have constant power wired to the switches. Here's the way they shoud be:The black (or white) negative wire from the power supply goes to the center terminal of every turnout -- jump from one to the next in a daisy chain.The other wire from your power supply goes to the center terminal of each SPDT center-off momentary toggle switch, in daisy chain form.A separate third wire goes from one side of each toggle switch to one side terminal of each turnout motor.A separate fourth wire goes from the other side of each toggle switch to the other terminal of the turnout motor.Each toggle switch should have the positive supply voltage wire going to its center terminal, and two other wires going from the toggle switch's side terminals to the turnout motor.In this manner, the toggle switch changes the turnout position according to which side of the solenoid receives the electrical pulse when you throw the toggle switch. Don't hold a toggle switch on for any length of time or you'll burn out your turnout solenoids. They are supposed to receive only a short pulse of electrical energy.
In another earlier post I misdescribed the wiring as being in series. Your description of the wiring is, in fact, how I have wired the turnouts and the toggles. I'm using three stranded 20 AWG bell wire with the white wire wired to the black wire of the turnout motor and the center pole of the toggle, and the red wire from one side pole of the toggle to the red wire of the turnout motor, and the green wire from the other side pole of the toggle to the green wire of the turnout motor. The toggles are SPDT with the center pole labled as OFF and the other two poles labled as ON. When I flip the toggle from OFF to ON it springs back to OFF when I release it. Unfortunately, I can't find the shipping invoice to verify the Jameco part number. The buzzing that proceeded/accompanied the meltdown started the minute I applied power to the system and only to the last turnout.
bearman wrote: In another earlier post I misdescribed the wiring as being in series. Your description of the wiring is, in fact, how I have wired the turnouts and the toggles. I'm using three stranded 20 AWG bell wire with the white wire wired to the black wire of the turnout motor and the center pole of the toggle, and the red wire from one side pole of the toggle to the red wire of the turnout motor, and the green wire from the other side pole of the toggle to the green wire of the turnout motor. The toggles are SPDT with the center pole labled as OFF and the other two poles labled as ON. When I flip the toggle from OFF to ON it springs back to OFF when I release it. Unfortunately, I can't find the shipping invoice to verify the Jameco part number. The buzzing that proceeded/accompanied the meltdown started the minute I applied power to the system and only to the last turnout.
If the buzzing (from the switch machine) started as soon as you applied power to the system, either:
1. You don't have momentary on switches
2. You do but don't have them wired correctly
3. You have a defective switch (or switches)
4. Your wire joints (if you have them) are not properly isolated/insulated
See the test I recommended in an earlier post. Number 3 or possibly 2 is the most likely if it happened to only one of your switch machines (assuming that you had all of them connected).
Another quick test would be to disconnect the switch machine that malfunctioned and see if the rest of them work properly.
It sounds like the wiring as described is correct. The first thing I'd do is go back and re-check the wiring to make sure that you really did it the way you intended. Why would I suggest this? Well, most of the time, when I figure out someone else's mistakes, it's because I've made the same mistake myself, many times.
Checking the SPDT's with a meter is a good idea, too.
Mis-wiring could cause the "last" one in line to get all of the power, all of the time, which is a recipe for burning it out. Or, if all of the machines are wired the same way, you may be drawing enough current that the power supply doesn't have the capacity to fry them all at once, so it's doing it one at a time. Still, my money is on a wiring error.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
MisterBeasley wrote: It sounds like the wiring as described is correct. The first thing I'd do is go back and re-check the wiring to make sure that you really did it the way you intended. Why would I suggest this? Well, most of the time, when I figure out someone else's mistakes, it's because I've made the same mistake myself, many times.Checking the SPDT's with a meter is a good idea, too.Mis-wiring could cause the "last" one in line to get all of the power, all of the time, which is a recipe for burning it out. Or, if all of the machines are wired the same way, you may be drawing enough current that the power supply doesn't have the capacity to fry them all at once, so it's doing it one at a time. Still, my money is on a wiring error.
I'll triple check the wiring but I am sure I have everything wired properly. I've got a multimeter so the next thing to do is check the toggle. That should be a blast.
Is it possible you received a bad batch of 5 snap switches/turnouts from somewhere? How did you get the switches without the Atlas momemtary controlling switches?
Have they been altered, under water anything like that? Whenever I have worked inside one I notice that all the wires lay in a jumble on top of one another without shorting....they must be coated in clear laquer....maybe something is wrong with that in your switches.
Did you ever try firing just one in a test? Did I miss that test in your posts so far?
Also, how much power is your AC transformer putting out?....although, if you have the switches wired properly, no shorting, proper momentary toggles, undamaged Atlas switches...all that....you would not be getting any power to them even if you had them plugging into monster amounts of AC.
Many of us have experienced problems with the Atlas slide controllers that come with Atlas snap switches. (They don't come with the Custom Lines, which may be why the OP didn't use them.)
These Atlas things are notorious for sticking in the ON position. They have been blamed, correctly, for many fried switch machines over the years. I've lost one or two myself this way, which is one reason why I have a bunch of them in a box under the layout.
oh yeah, I would never use them if I wasn't the only one using my layout and I never leave it powered up if I am not right at the controls to yank out the plug to the switch board.....as long as I don't go too deaf and miss the buzzing....although I bet some can stick with a little click and not buzz loud enough......only had mine for a year.
but at the time I couldn't afford what the LHS charges for good switches or switch machines......100% more for a custom line.....@ $29.00 each with motor and much much more for other brands.
I just checked...yeah the custom line are not called "snap switches" that's why I assume OP had the base model like me because that's what is written in the opening post.
As I recall, the first indication that there's a problem with an Atlas switch controller was the smell. If you know the smell, you might react quickly enough. If you don't know it, well, you'll know it next time. There wasn't much buzzing that I recall with these.
My experience with this was 40 years ago, and the Atlas machines are a bit different now. I'm not sure if they're more or less robust, but I'd rather not have to find out.
Now, you would be the guy to ask, and you have no doubt posted it before, but which do you prefer, and are you using more than one type?
TomDiehl wrote: bearman wrote:I've got one wire wired to the middle pole of the first switch and then jumped to the middle pole of the second switch etc. Then there is the other wire wired to the middle (black) wire of the turnout then jumped to the black wire of the second turnout etc. Then the other two wires are wired from the switch to the turnout, green to green and red to red. This is in series right?Your wiring sounds correct but some things need to be checked. On your toggle switches, you're assuming (a word that indicates problems) the center terminal is the center pole of the switch. The best thing to do is test these toggle switches with an ohmmeter to deteremine if 1) The center terminal is indeed the pole and 2) they are momentary on switches (switch closed only when the toggle is pushed to one side or the other) and opens as soon as you release the switch.
I've got a multimeter and tomorrow, after another check of the wiring to make sure there is no screw up there, I am going to test both the center pole of the toggle and double check that the midde black wire of the turnout motor is, in fact, the common lead.
MisterBeasley wrote: Still, my money is on a wiring error.
While I tend to disagree that this is the problem, I hope you are correct.
Bearman,
Since you used stranded wire, take a powerful magnifying glass and good, bright light, and check the back of every toggle switch and every Atlas turnout, looking for a stray strand of wire touching where it shouldn't. All is takes is one to short them all out.
cacole wrote: Bearman, Since you used stranded wire, take a powerful magnifying glass and good, bright light, and check the back of every toggle switch and every Atlas turnout, looking for a stray strand of wire touching where it shouldn't. All is takes is one to short them all out.
Again, I appear to have fouled up the description. The wires are each single strand with three wires with three different colors of insulation. However, the turnout motor leads are stranded, so, I have even more to think about. Damn, if I can get over the electrical stuff, the rest is a piece of cake, figuratively speaking.
Hmmm three wires. Are they on the spool together such that all three are twisted together? Perhaps a little nick somewhere? If they are all separate, good.
I second a prior response: try one switch at a time. Unless you want to trip all at once, I would wire each separately. Yeah, it costs some wire, and a bit of clutter, but look at the cost of heartache and switches right now.
Good luck and let us know what the problem turns out to be. Then we can all slap our foreheads at the same time.
bearman wrote: MisterBeasley wrote: Still, my money is on a wiring error.While I tend to disagree that this is the problem, I hope you are correct.
I'm starting to believe you have gremlins...wiring doesn't seem to make complete sense given your mention of this happening the first time, so you removed the last turnout. Then it happened again to the next in line but you killed power before it fried. The fact that ALL the turnouts were apparently NOT energized makes me question the momentary toggle being the problem...if I could climb under the table we could solve your problem in short order I'm sure.
bearman wrote:I'm using three stranded 20 AWG bell wire with the white wire wired to the black wire of the turnout motor and the center pole of the toggle, and the red wire from one side pole of the toggle to the red wire of the turnout motor, and the green wire from the other side pole of the toggle to the green wire of the turnout motor.
Where is the other power wire connected?
Texas Zepher wrote: bearman wrote:I'm using three stranded 20 AWG bell wire with the white wire wired to the black wire of the turnout motor and the center pole of the toggle, and the red wire from one side pole of the toggle to the red wire of the turnout motor, and the green wire from the other side pole of the toggle to the green wire of the turnout motor.bolding and coloring added by me. If this sentence is correct, it is NOT what cacole said. The white wire should go to one or the other not both.Where is the other power wire connected?
I might be wrong, but I don't think bear is talking about any power wire yet in this description...just that the centre pole of the toggle (which should be ground if the toggle switch is right) is connected to the black commone wire of the snap switch motor...and that is correct.....
and yes, there is no doubt, bear...the black wire is the common one. I grouped 14 of them together on my latest expansion to reduce the number of wires I had to run all the way back to the control box.