train layout design

[thatboy37]

thanks guys i will take all of his into consideration and will post photos when done

[nucat78]

The simplest plan would be 4 isolated loops.  How about a three track main with a yard and industrial area?  The fourth track is the yard / industrial lead(s).  Add crossovers as appropriate.  The BNSF main through the western 'burbs of Chicago is sort of like that - 3 busy mains with yards at Eola, Cicero and Western Avenue.

3 trains "orbit" while you switch the yard.  That's a simplistic description but similar to many display layouts I've seen.  Maybe you could start from there.

[R. T. POTEET]

Even in N Scale you are asking an awful lot of a 4 X 8. I can see two possibilities - the first is a double track folded dogbone with two trains running on the two loops. These two trains will, of necessity, have to be short and they are going to be running very close together. Control is going to be a problem with straight DC.

- the second proposal is a long single track loop folding back on itself to give the impression of double track with three trains running on the main while a fourth operates (independently) on yard or industrial trackage.

- although both of these are conducive to DCC operation you could get them to work with DC if you very carefully selected locomotives running at very close to the same speed.

- I will broach a third possibilty but this would be difficult without multiple operators. Hide the ends of a loop-to-loop mainline in tunnels where trains can be concealed. Switch a small yard - have a second train switching local industries - a third train could climb the ridge and service a mine - your fourth train would, of course, be the mainifest on the mainline which would periodically make an appearance to add confusion and interest.

[Autobus Prime]

3rd: a 4x8 is all i have room for in the living with the space that the wife has granted me to build a layout in. i have a pretty long reach so that shouldn't be a problem.

I always wonder, if plywood came not in 4x8, but in 5x9 or 3x7 sheets, would people say that was 'all the space' the had?

MR:

Sure, maybe, but what of it?  People can point out the shortcomings of the 4 x 8 all day, and yes, they are there, but so are the advantages.  It's a big piece of furniture, yes, but it's also just about the minimum width for a 22" radius turn (or an 18" with room to look good). It's about the widest area that can be reached into if access is provided all around.

We shouldn't forget that the alternatives aren't perfect.  The assumption is often made that wall space is free, but it isn't always that way.  It often is if a spare room is being used, but the case isn't so certain in a basement, or in a garage.  I've got workbenches, shelving, and utility equipment on the walls - access is a priority.  In a garage, a table taking up one whole bay could well be a better citizen than a shelf that projected 2' from the wall all around.  Remember, too, that the aisles needed may overlap over aisles needed for other uses, and that a wall layout with continuous run demands a duckunder or bridge, or else loop sections that stick out 4' from the walls anyway.

Nor should we forget just how easy it is to buy a sheet and build a frame for it and start railroading right away.  A lot of us have many things to think about, and get bogged down easily in the planning stages, if we try to get too complex. 

Here I go rambling on again, but I really do think that all schemes have their benefits and drawbacks.

tb37:

If four trains at once is what you want, and N is your scale, you could build a four-track loop on your 4 x 8.  I don't deny it is fun to sit back with a cold beverage and imagine you are at trackside, watching the trains rumble past.  You might just build that, and enjoy watching trains run while you think about the next step.  I think you would eventually want to add a branch line, or perhaps some local switching, but with so much room you'd still have lots of options open.  In the meantime, have fun running trains, and read up on layout design, so that you can exercise these options when you want to have even more fun.

If you do build a four-track loop, construction will be pretty simple.  Try to avoid rigidly paralleling the table sides.  Offset the end turns a bit, and add some gentle, sweeping curves of some huge radius (perhaps 6' or more) on the sides.  Avoid S-curves, of course.  Put in some crossovers so your faster trains can pass slower ones from time to time. 

Since your layout will be slanted in favor of train-watching, consider adding some staging so that you can vary the show.  Perhaps you could have four yard tracks along one side. 

Another thing you could do is take a 4 x 8 HO scale double-track plan and build it as an N-scale four-tracker without scaling anything down.  You could also keep it as double-track, if you want to do a bit more "operating" to keep your four trains running (passing each other as needed).

[Midnight Railroader]

3rd: a 4x8 is all i have room for in the living with the space that the wife has granted me to build a layout in. i have a pretty long reach so that shouldn't be a problem.

I always wonder, if plywood came not in 4x8, but in 5x9 or 3x7 sheets, would people say that was 'all the space' the had?

[Vail and Southwestern RR]

was wondering whether or not any of you guys have track plans for a 4x8 sheet of plywood that is capable of running at least 3 or 4 trains independently. or do i just have to wing it and try something to see if i can make it happen. all f the train books that i have seen so far and have bought. none of them have what im looking for. if anybody can direct me or help me i would greatly appreciate it.

First obvious question is what scale?  Next question is what do you mean by independently?  And what do you mean by train? 

You need to think about what John Armstong dubbed the givens and druthers.  Givens being the things that can't change, such was the space you have.  Druthers being what you'd like to do.  Type of railroad, era, emphasis on operation or scenery, types of trains you want, how many operators, etc.

Also, think carefully about whether a 4x8 is really what you want.  Remember that you have to be able to access at least 3 sides of a 4x8, so the space it really takes is more like 8x10, at least.  Many times somthing that works around the outside of the space can work better.

First, a definition, slightly extended from the original:

"Train - a locomotive, or locomotives, [or powered passenger car (EMU or DMU)] with or without cars (trailers,) carrying markers."  Peter Josserand, Rights of Trains.

Chuck-

I had a pretty good idea of the definition, but I figured the only definition that mattered in this case was the poster's.  I like your ideas, though!

 

[Texas Zepher]

n scale is the scale i'm going with. i can run 4 trains on separate tracks at the same time. at least 25 cars in the train consist that being the shortest consist.

Hmmm, I think I would recommend one double track main for two of the "separate" loops.   For the other two you could do a second double track main, or two single tracks.  It will probably have to have some up-and-over trackage.  Even in N-scale that is pretty demanding for a 4x8, especially if you really intend to include a "nice size" yard.    Why do you want a yard for?  Your post says to "switch and move freight around".  Please describe in more detail.  Usually working a yard is more drilling (back and forth track to track) rather than anything interesting.  Generally freight is moved around in industrial trackage.  Yards are used to move cars from train to train.  Are you really after a place to store cars & maybe whole trains?

Way back in Junior High (drafting class) I designed a 4x8 that had a double track AT&SF main around the outside of the board, and a single track inside loop for the CB&Q.  There was a small interchange yard between them.  When I got done with the plan I remember I didn't like it.  It was too sterile or something, probably because it was all flat.   I didn't even save it in my layout portfolio.  I need to think about it a bit in 3D.

SD70s & SD90s and most of the other equipment listed seem incongruous with 40' box cars.  The "State" FT units would work better for them.  Or better yet sell the "Illinois" and "California" and buy a whole new fleet of modern box cars to match the more modern equipment!

[tomikawaTT]

was wondering whether or not any of you guys have track plans for a 4x8 sheet of plywood that is capable of running at least 3 or 4 trains independently. or do i just have to wing it and try something to see if i can make it happen. all f the train books that i have seen so far and have bought. none of them have what im looking for. if anybody can direct me or help me i would greatly appreciate it.

First obvious question is what scale?  Next question is what do you mean by independently?  And what do you mean by train? 

You need to think about what John Armstong dubbed the givens and druthers.  Givens being the things that can't change, such was the space you have.  Druthers being what you'd like to do.  Type of railroad, era, emphasis on operation or scenery, types of trains you want, how many operators, etc.

Also, think carefully about whether a 4x8 is really what you want.  Remember that you have to be able to access at least 3 sides of a 4x8, so the space it really takes is more like 8x10, at least.  Many times somthing that works around the outside of the space can work better.

First, a definition, slightly extended from the original:

"Train - a locomotive, or locomotives, [or powered passenger car (EMU or DMU)] with or without cars (trailers,) carrying markers."  Peter Josserand, Rights of Trains.

Given that definition, it is easy to put together a 4 x 8 layout that will allow independent operation of four or more 'trains.'  The 'trains' will be streetcars, and the layout will represent a 1920's-era urban landscape.

Another possibility, for multi-car trains, is a multi-level scheme - double track subterranean loop for two subway trains, surface (including street) running switching complex in an industrial area, plus (possibly) an elevated rapid transit line (as in New York or Chicago.)  The bummer is that you would only be able to see the subway trains through slots in the fascia (unless you do what Mister Beasley did and put a TV camera in the nose of the subway train.)

Think outside the box!

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

[Vail and Southwestern RR]

So what I'm hearing is that you want to diplay four trains running on separate tracks, at the same time.  No theme, no operation or purpose, just four loops.  If that's really what you want, I think the idea of different levels, with the different loops hidden at different points (I might be able to think of how to use the word different one more time!) would at least hide things so that it wasn't totally obvious what was going on, at least fot a few seconds.  You'll want to keep the radius as large as possible to run that kind of equipment.

I think the reason you haven't seen such a thing in books might be that there's not a lot of demand for it.

 

[SpaceMouse]

There are some great 4 x 8 designs here. You may not be able to run 4 trains, but take a look. These layouts have a lot to do. (and while you're there, vote.) 

4 x 8 Design Contest 

 

[thatboy37]

was wondering whether or not any of you guys have track plans for a 4x8 sheet of plywood that is capable of running at least 3 or 4 trains independently. or do i just have to wing it and try something to see if i can make it happen. all f the train books that i have seen so far and have bought. none of them have what im looking for. if anybody can direct me or help me i would greatly appreciate it.

First obvious question is what scale?  Next question is what do you mean by independently?  And what do you mean by train? 

You need to think about what John Armstong dubbed the givens and druthers.  Givens being the things that can't change, such was the space you have.  Druthers being what you'd like to do.  Type of railroad, era, emphasis on operation or scenery, types of trains you want, how many operators, etc.

Also, think carefully about whether a 4x8 is really what you want.  Remember that you have to be able to access at least 3 sides of a 4x8, so the space it really takes is more like 8x10, at least.  Many times somthing that works around the outside of the space can work better.

 

 1st: n scale is the scale i'm going with. i can run 4 trains on separate tracks at the same time. at least 25 cars in the train consist that being the shortest consist.

2nd: i have no real type to model after just go with the flow unless i have a plan. i have road names such as NS, BNSF, CR, CN, TFM, CEFX, CP, and CSX. modern day era like sd80's, 70's, 90's, and sd40-2's. operation i would like to be able to run 4 trains at once and have a nice size yard to switch and move freight around. i want and have gundersun twin stacks, 90 ton coal hoppers, 2 bay centerflow hoppers, 70 ton ore cars, 55 ton fishbelly hoppers, and 40' state boxcars. i would love to have at least 2 people operating but if i can't find another person t run with me it will be a 1 person show.

3rd: a 4x8 is all i have room for in the living with the space that the wife has granted me to build a layout in. i have a pretty long reach so that shouldn't be a problem.

hope this helps with the help you guys can give me. 

[IRONROOSTER]

If your objective is to have 2 trains running unattended at the same time that you are running a third trains on a 4x8 in HO, then one  approach is a double track oval with a long branch leading off the inside of the oval and rising to a terminus above the double track on the other side or at one end.

If you want to sit back and watch 4 trains run, then you should create two or three levels which don't have to be connected with some of the loops doing a figure 8.  In any event you won't find many plans because to have that many trains running at once will require a real spaghetti bowl of track.  

If you have the room you could do a 5x10 layout with a 4 track mainline oval.

Enjoy

Paul 

[Vail and Southwestern RR]

was wondering whether or not any of you guys have track plans for a 4x8 sheet of plywood that is capable of running at least 3 or 4 trains independently. or do i just have to wing it and try something to see if i can make it happen. all f the train books that i have seen so far and have bought. none of them have what im looking for. if anybody can direct me or help me i would greatly appreciate it.

First obvious question is what scale?  Next question is what do you mean by independently?  And what do you mean by train? 

You need to think about what John Armstong dubbed the givens and druthers.  Givens being the things that can't change, such was the space you have.  Druthers being what you'd like to do.  Type of railroad, era, emphasis on operation or scenery, types of trains you want, how many operators, etc.

Also, think carefully about whether a 4x8 is really what you want.  Remember that you have to be able to access at least 3 sides of a 4x8, so the space it really takes is more like 8x10, at least.  Many times somthing that works around the outside of the space can work better.

 

[loathar]

Don't know how many trains each will run, but here's some free 4x8 designs from Atlas.
http://www.atlasrr.com/Code100web/index.htm

Now let's see how long it takes for this to turn into a 10 page pro/con 4x8 thread...

[Anonymous]

You can run 4 trains on a 4x8 independantly. Each has a engine, one car and a caboose and use 4 DCC throttles.

=)

I bet the real question is space. Am I right?

The train books are meant to inspire and help you along as you form a plan.

[thatboy37]

was wondering whether or not any of you guys have track plans for a 4x8 sheet of plywood that is capable of running at least 3 or 4 trains independently. or do i just have to wing it and try something to see if i can make it happen. all f the train books that i have seen so far and have bought. none of them have what im looking for. if anybody can direct me or help me i would greatly appreciate it.