multi-level layout lighting

[4merroad4man]

I am using xenon lights in strings of 3.  They run much much cooler than halogens or regular incandescents, put out a very pure white light and are dimmable.  Home Depot sells three light strings for 20.00.  The strings are linkable.  The bulbs are extremely long lasting.  By dimming them, I can regulate the light output based on separation between decks to an ideal intensity for the given situation.  The Home Depot units come in puck light configuration, however at lighting stores, you can get them in 2 and 3 foot strips.  They are quite economical to operate as well, rivaling, though not quite as efficient, as CFL's.

To provide an even light spread, I have testied them behind diffuser panels of the type used in drop ceilings with excellent results.

[ericboone]

CFLs are not for me because they are not dimmable (at least not at an affordable cost and even those do not dim all the way).  This subject has come up before and some have suggested a combination of incandescent and fluorescent so you can dim the lighting, but I understand that will totally screw up the white balance in any photographs you take.

LEDs are a wonderful low power option, but way too costly for layout lighting at this time, especially given the quantities needed to get the same light output as a standard light bulb.

I've seen layouts lit with rope lighting and the lighting was simply way too dim for my tastes.  You could see everything, but the lighting level was nowhere near a bright sunny day.  It was more like just before sunrise or just after sunset. 

I am leaning towards festoon style Xenon (like halogens) bulbs because they are more efficient than standard incandescents and they have a thin profile, which is a big plus when you are trying to keep the deck thickness to a minimum on a multi deck layout.  The bulbs are $1.49 each and the fixtures are $2.49 each from Superlumination.com.  (Scroll down to near the bottom of the page.)

As others have stated, if you have a large layout and wish to have it well lit, you must consider current load.  When I finished my basement, I put in three extra 20 amp circuits just for the train layout.  I expect two of the three to be devoted to the lighting. 

 

 

[ChrisNH]

This photo shows how I installed the bulbs using outdoor sockets held in place with conduit straps.

 

 

Wow... I stumbled on this while searching for thoughts on painting the inside of a valence.. what a great way to handle the light bulbs. I ran romex to ceiling fixtures I mounted in shallow ceiling boxes screwed to the layouts valence frame. Much more expensive and time consuming. I will definitley do my lights this way on the next layout!!

Chris 

[rs2mike]

Anybody try rope lights?  I was thinking of experimenting with a string of white, one of red and one of blue.  Red for sunsets, blue for nighttime.  Plus they're on sale all over now with Christmas coming.

Not sure about power consumption and heat produced though.

 

When I was on the wooster ohio layout tour there was a guy that used a string of the large christmas tree lights.  This was surrounded by a facia of 1/4 inch const foam I think.  He had a huge basement layout that had alot of nooks and crannies to walk back into to see trains.  The overall effect was awesome.  I liked his lighting alot better than some of the other guys layouts.  It kinda gave it an early morning or just prior to sunset look.  And if he wanted to brighted it up he had overhead track lights that he could control each spot light by a swithc on the main layout facia.  With all lights on it gave it a nice midday look to it.

[trainnut1250]

Guys,

 

From a previous post on the subject:

 

I have a double deck layout that is lit entirely with CPFLs. 

 

I did numerous experiments with all type of tubes, brite sticks, halogen, x-mas lights, light ropes etc.  The goals were bright pleasing light with low initial hardware cost and low operational cost.  By far I liked the halogens and the incandescents but they didn't meet most of the criteria. I settled on CPFLs when the prices dropped and they came out with the warm white versions in 40 watt equivalents (cheap at HD).

 

  If you start doing the math on power consumption you will see that to light any space adequately begins to add up in a hurry wattage wise (roughly one amp per 100 watt bulb).  The biggest current draw for most layouts will be the lighting power load.  CPFLs in the 40 watt output range draw 11 watts!!!  This is a huge advantage.  The industry is producing incandescent color range CPFL bulbs very cheaply now, and while the color isn't perfect, I have always liked the "incandescent look"..

 

The layout looks good with these lights and I don't have problems with the dreaded "dark cavernous lower deck look" that plagues a lot of double deck layouts. Using cplfls enabled me to cut the power draw by about 70%.  This meant more candle power in spots and less hand wringing about maxing out circuits (I have 40 amps dedicated to the room)

 

I used Fugate's idea of the porcelain sockets along the inside of the upper deck with CPFLs in them.  This allows for very flexible placement of the light source and not nearly as much heat build-up from the lights (due to less watts).  The sockets can be bought at OSH for about $2.00 to $4.00 each depending on the type.  They are much easier to place and position than tubes when working in tight spots.  I have mine wired with the 120V buss in the very back of the deck (separate color code wires) to avoid any problems.

 

While the look isn't for everyone, I encourage those of you looking for options in lighting (especially multiple deck layouts) to look into CPFLs.

 

A photo of the layout in question:

 

Guy

[bn7026]

Try out:

http://ledshoponline.com/led_lightbar.htm#650mm

This guy is based in Queensland, Australia but should post worldwide.

 I've got a couple of these - cost A$40 each and have used one to light up a diorama with great results (ran it of an old 9v DC modem power supply wallwart).

 Just depends on the light level you want - I'm going to use them on my layout underconstruction which has a maximum scene depth of 600mm (about 2').

Regards

Tim

[mammay76]

I am in the same dilema here, trying to plan for lighting on a 4 level layout. my shelves are 12" apart vertically, and only 12" wide. i was thinking of running either christmas lights or rope lights along the front and back (hidden by a valance of course). im wondering if it will provide enough lighting, im thinking it might.....but then again it might not.

[gerhard_k]

I just bought a 50-light string of C6-size LED Christmas lights (not for the layout - it's still in planning). They are a lot brighter than the old incandescent tree lights, and they run _cold_, so there should not be any problem with heat build-up, or high current consumption. Otoh, they are slightly bluish, although a few of the bulbs have a yellow cast. Has anybody tried these for layout lighting? They are spaced about 4" apart, so might work well for valance lighting. Another question: I presume the LEDs have a threshold voltage, so are not dimmable? - Gerhard

[Mark R.]

I use the large outdoor Christmas lights as well. They are on a motorized dimmer and are set to stop while still barely on to eliminate the black-hole effect !!!

I have a few deeper scenes and found micro-wave replacement bulbs have the same size socket and are available in 15 / 25 / 40 watts for the spots you need a little more light.

Mark.

[mearrin69]

Probably too expensive for wide usage but I picked up some LED under-shelf lighting from IKEA yesterday. Here's the link (white, not multicolor):

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/20119932

They're thin (1/4"-1/2") and don't put out much heat at all. Tried them out in my shelf (also from IKEA - 4'x1' Markor bridge thingie) and they work pretty well I think - though I have no scenery yet so I don't know if the color's going to be okay. The multicolor ones may be okay if you're modeling Vegas or Shanghai or something. :)

Alternatively IKEA has three-light halogen sets and halogen strips that can be connected. Bit cheaper than the LEDS but they were so thin and lovely I figured I'd put them in a bookcase if they don't work out for me. Could get expensive for a big shelf layout though.
M

[jktrains]

Maandg - That's what I was considering.  How is the spread of light?

My current layout design has the lower level being primarily for staging and a large yard.  I agree with Brunton that one of the disadvantages of CFLs is that they can not be dimmed, which is a must for the upper level lighting.  On my previous shelf layout I used display cabinet lightbulbs in Xmas light sockets.  The cabinet lights are dimmable, but the light spread is sometimes weak.  On the bottom level, good lighting is important for working the yard, but being dimmable is less of a priority.  Each level will be on its own circuit so there won;t be issues about dimming, and each can be turn on/off separately.  I'll have to check out Joe's solution more.  The research continues.

[Pruitt]

I plan on using low-wattage incandescent bulbs a la Joe Fugate, because I want to be able to dim to zero. Fluorescents won't do that.

[wjstix]

Hey Fred, can I ask about the benchwork in your pics?? It looks like you did what I'm thinking of doing, building a shelf-layout using pre-made shelf parts...I don't know the correct terms, but the kind where you attach vertical tracks to the wall and then have shelf brackets you attach to the tracks; the brackets then hold up the layout benchwork??

It looks like on top of the brackets you have lumber (1" x 1"??) with plywood (1/2"??) sitting on top of them?? Also how far apart are the brackets?? Just wondering how it's working, how easy to install etc.

BTW, it really looks nice !!

[pcarrell]

Rope lights tend to not cast their light very far.  They work well for small areas like hidden staging or in a helix, but not so well for overhead lighting.

[nucat78]

Anybody try rope lights?  I was thinking of experimenting with a string of white, one of red and one of blue.  Red for sunsets, blue for nighttime.  Plus they're on sale all over now with Christmas coming.

Not sure about power consumption and heat produced though.

 

[maandg]

Larry,

I used N:Vision 14 watt bulbs (60 watt equivilant) for the lower level lighting on my MA&G.  I am extremely pleased with the results. 

This photo shows how I installed the bulbs using outdoor sockets held in place with conduit straps.

Here is a shot of a completed area.

You can follow an entire photo gallery with detailed information about my lighting system on my MA&G website, www.magnoliaroute.com .  It is located in the "Third Level Progress" gallery.

Hope this helps!

 

[mearrin69]

See how Jack Burgess uses 'Bright Sticks' fluorescents on his Yosemite Valley RR at <http://www.yosemitevalleyrr.com/dbledeck.htm>, bottom image.

Wow. Thanks for that link. The lighting info is useful but that's a beautiful layout - I've collected several books on th YVRR and would like very much to model it one day so this was inspirational. I just wish he'd shown the incline. :)
M

[fwright]

Over my lower level Staging yards and (Otherside) classification yards I use an old string of outdoor christmas lights with white or clear bulbs, fastened to the closest frame of the upper deck. This works fine, very little heat and if you want a different hue in one area, just change the bulb to whatever you want.  This can also allow for a time difference from running on the main deck (daytime) arriving in the yards (later evening) or from here to night running on the main.

Works for me.

Johnboy out......................

James:1 Verse:5

The "Wobbly" will not be taken over !!!!!!!!!!!

The real issue with heat and incandescents of any kind, is how much light do you need?  If you want a brightly lit scene, you will have heat issues because no matter what type of incandescent bulb (and voltage/current you run it at) you use, because approximately 95% of the power goes to creating heat, and 5% to creating visible light.  But incandescents have the magical property of being easily dimmed or color shifted.  Theaters put up with the tremendous heat load for that very reason.

if you have a dark room, and a model railroad inside a shadow box, you can get by with lower light levels for lighting effects and operation than a room with sunlight coming in through a window.  That is why theaters are dark.  For working on the layout, age is probably more of a factor in determining the required light levels for comfortable work without eyestrain than anything else.  Older eyes need brighter light to do fine detail work.

For doing detail work directly on the layout, you will generally need a flourescent setup of some kind to generate the needed light levels.  Whether you need that much light for operations is a matter of personal taste.  Operations involving reading car numbers or waybills or similar is going to take higher light levels than watchng a train cruise through some scenery.  Manually uncoupling with a pick or visually lining turnouts is probably somewhere in between.

Bottom line:  planning lighting is an important part of layout planning.

my thoughts, your choices

Fred W 

[nolatron]

I used T4 Fluorescent tubes on my layout.

[Shilshole]

See how Jack Burgess uses 'Bright Sticks' fluorescents on his Yosemite Valley RR at <http://www.yosemitevalleyrr.com/dbledeck.htm>, bottom image.

[last mountain & eastern hogger]

Over my lower level Staging yards and (Otherside) classification yards I use an old string of outdoor christmas lights with white or clear bulbs, fastened to the closest frame of the upper deck. This works fine, very little heat and if you want a different hue in one area, just change the bulb to whatever you want.  This can also allow for a time difference from running on the main deck (daytime) arriving in the yards (later evening) or from here to night running on the main.

Works for me.

Johnboy out......................

James:1 Verse:5

The "Wobbly" will not be taken over !!!!!!!!!!!

[concretelackey]

Not to burst anyone's buble but option 4 (flourescent tube lights) are heat producers. Not the tube itself but the ballast contained in the housing can get very hot. This is not projected heat but may cause issues with materials located near the ballast.

[jktrains]

I have the same issue and am currently exploring different options. 

Option 1 - Daylight incandescent bulbs in ceramic fixtures attached to electrical boxes mounted on the upper level frames.

Option 2 - Compact Flourescent Lamps attached as in option 1.

Option 3 - Under cabinet halogen lamps (hockey pucks)

Option 4 - Flourescent tube lamps mounted under front fascia on the upper level.

The issue I see with #1 & #3 are the heat generated by either the incands or the halogens.  The heat issue is not only the directed down, but up.  Option #2 & #4, heat is not an issue.  With #4, from what I've seen others write about, unless the bulbs are placed end to end, you end up with dark areas where there are gaps.  My hope is the the CFLs will not have this problem, with no heat and a lower energy consumption.  I still need to do a mockup and test it out.

 

[BigRusty]

I saw some mini flood lights at HD that apear to be powered by a Malibu transformer. If so, they would have the advantage of providing a lot of light if spaced properly and with little heat input.

It might be possible to install a dimmer in front of the transformer to reduce the primary, and thus the secondary, voltage output below twelve volts to increase lamp life.

When I get a chance I will look into this because they can easily be mounted on the inside of the valance projecting the light toward the scene which I prefer to straight down noontime sunlight effect.

[mrprksr]

looking for ideas on lighting the lower levels of a multi-level layout....thanks....larry