MRC transformer problems w/ sound locos

[Hal M. Hare]

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.  Sounds like good advice.

 

[Anonymous]

One thing I noticed years ago when switching from my old c.1971 MRC "Golden Throttlepack" to the Tech II one was that the Tech II (and later Tech IV) seemed to produce a lot less power, probably because the newer engines with can motors needed less power than the old open frame motors. For example, when I was in O, the old throttlepack was fine, but the Tech II gave me an overload warning on some engines. Later when I was in HO I found that if an engine used say 30% of full power on the old throttlepack, it would take maybe 50-60% on a "Tech" throttle to get it up to the same speed.

When I got my first sound engine, a BLI Hudson, I had to put the throttle up to 100% to get the engine to go at anything above a crawl, and IIRC one of my other BLI engines wouldn't budge on full DC - but that was about the time I switched to DCC.

I decided to do the same thing as well. Several DCC engines required several different "Throttle" behavior with increasingly crowded group of marks on the power pack showing nuetrals for the engines.

I thought to myself what am I getting into? Tossed it and went with DCC.

You should see the behavior the DCC engines exhibited when "Mistreated" or not fed the power they crave. It was amazing. 

[Tilden]

Hal,

   I spoke to MRC about this.  They agree, in part, with Cacole.  The 35va is total power and can be used up quickly.  How many trains are you running at one time?  What accessories are connected to the pack?  In other words, total load becomes a factor.

   MRC also suggests such an old pack might simply have a worn/weak circuit breaker.

   Might be time to "power up".

Tilden

[wjstix]

One thing I noticed years ago when switching from my old c.1971 MRC "Golden Throttlepack" to the Tech II one was that the Tech II (and later Tech IV) seemed to produce a lot less power, probably because the newer engines with can motors needed less power than the old open frame motors. For example, when I was in O, the old throttlepack was fine, but the Tech II gave me an overload warning on some engines. Later when I was in HO I found that if an engine used say 30% of full power on the old throttlepack, it would take maybe 50-60% on a "Tech" throttle to get it up to the same speed.

When I got my first sound engine, a BLI Hudson, I had to put the throttle up to 100% to get the engine to go at anything above a crawl, and IIRC one of my other BLI engines wouldn't budge on full DC - but that was about the time I switched to DCC.

[Anonymous]

Sir,

I suggest going ahead and taking the old power pack out of service. You can buy any Tech 4 throttle and you will have the amps. I have recieved a email a few years back from MRC stating that my 220 had 1.66 amps max out put while I was considering how to feed my BLI ABBA sound units. Im glad I never tried it because those units together pull about 2 and they were never put into "Heavy load" mode which really beefs up the amps and everything else high.

You can still use the old power pack for building lights etc. Things that dont take much juice to run.

If you are going to stay with Analog with your sound/DCC locomotive the Tech 4 is a good one. If you are going to go DCC, any of the availible DCC control systems will run your engine, however choosing one to buy and use for yourself is the challenge as there is a lot of money involved.

Leaving aside for the moment my feelings towards MRC sound DCC engines in general (Decoders) I think this will be a good way to move forward onwards and upwards.

Personally I was never happy until I have the ability to put 5 amps on the rails and feed the biggest and beefiest of the old motors in HO scale.

[Hal M. Hare]

You were correct.  Almost 2 weeks and no response from MRC to my inquiry.  Says a lot about their customer service!

[Hal M. Hare]

I sent an inquiry to MRC--do hope they respond.

[Anonymous]

Overload? As in dead short?

Sound and DCC engines require a large rush of power when they wake up from slumber.

MRC decoders arent that great but sticking to the search for the cause of the overload light, I still maintain that there isnt enough power.

I run a Tech 4 220 Throttle and it puts out 1.6 amps max but can feed a sound engine without trouble. But I break out the Digitrax 2012 power supply to feed my DCC when it's train time these days.

Long ago, my pa had a old throttle set to max DC with a old style rheostat controlling "Stop to full speed" between the power and the track. The set up worked well. Maybe that is where you need to go with yours.

Only I wont know where to find those wunnerful old rheostats these days.

[Hal M. Hare]

Thanks for all your thoughts.  Right now, I get an instant overload indication when trying to run a sound equipped engine.

Perhaps MRC has a trouble line? 

 

[fwright]

It looks like my initial theory of inadequate power was wrong.  My new guess, now that the TrainPower 5 has been identified as a high end MRC transistor throttle, is that the wave form is not sitting well with the sound decoder.  The sound decoders in DC mode are typically looking for a fairly pure DC, perhaps with a 60/120 Hz ripple.  Anything else is going to look something like a DCC signal, but the decoder can't make any sense out of it.

Suggestions:

1) If you have a friend or LHS with access to DCC, lock the decoder in DC-only mode, if possible.  I don't know what CV this would be, or if it's possible.  I know it is possible to lock in DCC mode only.

2) If possible, set the pulse frequency of the TrainPower 5 throttle to off, 60 Hz, or 120 Hz.  You are trying to get rid of higher frequency pulses which are throwing off the decoder.  Or, minimize the pulse component and maximize the "pure" DC component.  Upper scale throttles like the TrainPower 5 usually use some form of pulse injection for improved slow speed running as compared to your RailLine.  You need to get the output closer to normal DC.  Usually, there is some sort of switch on the main component to do this.

3) If the TrainPower 5 uses pulse width modulation to control speed without a pure DC component (unusual for an MRC throttle because early can motors could fry on straight PWM; MRC throttles typically used much milder pulses than other brands at the cost of ultra-slow speed creep), you are faced with incompatibility with nearly all dual mode DCC decoders.  Unless the decoder can be told to ignore the pulse train, either by being bypassed or put in DC mode only, it won't work.  And if the decoder is bypassed, you will have no sound and an ordinary DC locomotive.

Hope this works

Fred W 

[cacole]

 

Total output 35VA

A rating of 35VA is the same as saying 35 Watts, but this still doesn't indicate how much of that is available through the variable DC terminals to the track.  Some of those 35 Watts are going to be split up among all the other terminals, so you may be getting only 10-15 Watts to the track.  Fifteen Watts at 16 Volts would be less than 1 Amp of power, but this should still be sifficient for at least one sound-equipped locomotive.

 

[Anonymous]

I have found that my engines dont like to be fed analog power. They will run for me but are sick and require resets afterwards.

How many amps does this power pack up? if it is a half amp, it isnt going to be enough. One amp or even 1.5 amps is plenty.

[Hal M. Hare]

Thanks all for your thoughts.  Wish I knew..................

The Trainpower 5 specs are:

input- 120v AC, 60 Hz

output-0-16V DC [Variable]

          20V DC [fixed DC]

          16V AC [accessories]

Total output 35VA

Thought this was 'state of the art' in the 1980's. 

 

[Texas Zepher]

Bought a TGrain Power 5 years ago because I liked the walk around throttle concept.  It works fine on basic DC locos but shows an overload when trying to run Walthers or Athearn sound locos.  All work well with the older MRC Railline 370--but not with the later Trainpower 5.  Suggestions are welcome.

I must admit I had never heard of a Trainpower-5 before.   I would have guessed that the 5 was the power output thinking 5 Amps and that it had been designed for the large scales such as the Trainpower 6200.  But from the picture I've found, it seems like it is an electronic throttle specializing in low end speed control.  Perhaps the 5 is 0.5 amps, in which case it could be insufficient power.   Does the overload light come on anytime the loco is on the track or does it only come on when power is turned up?    Is the momentum control turned on or off?

[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/MRC-TRAINPOWER-5-POWERPACK-HO-used_W0QQitemZ180174108274QQihZ008QQcategoryZ19142QQcmdZViewItem[url]

[Driline]

Never heard of the MRC TrainPower 5. Could it be that the unit doesn't put out enough power?

I believe Athearn makes DCC locos that have sound decoders and speakers, but from what I gather they are only there for looks and arn't meant to operate. Or if they do its a one time thing and then they don't ever work again.

[jeffrey-wimberly]

Never heard of the MRC TrainPower 5. Could it be that the unit doesn't put out enough power?

[cacole]

Athearn makes sound locos?

David B

David,

Surely you jest... Athearn uses the notorious MRC sound decoders in their Genesis products.  If you are referring to the Athearn RTR locos, they don't have sound but I think some of them do come DCC equipped, if you can call an MRC decoder as being DCC equipped.

 

[fwright]

Bought a TGrain Power 5 years ago because I liked the walk around throttle concept.  It works fine on basic DC locos but shows an overload when trying to run Walthers or Athearn sound locos.  All work well with the older MRC Railline 370--but not with the later Trainpower 5.  Suggestions are welcome.  Must I replace the Trainpower 5? 

A quick google search comes up empty-handed for the "Trainpower 5".  So I have no idea of the specs.  The Railline 370 puts out up to 1.5 amps, so has sufficient power to handle sound-equipped locos, which might draw as much as .75 amps.

Look for the VA rating of your Trainpower 5 on the case - if it's 12VA or less, it might not have enough power to drive your sound-powered locos.

just my thoughts

Fred W

[Hal M. Hare]

David-yes they do.  Got any ideas why the older transformer works better than the newer, higher priced one?  Issues involves a Railline 370 which works dc sound vs. Trainpower 5 which doesn't.

[Hal M. Hare]

Bought a TGrain Power 5 years ago because I liked the walk around throttle concept.  It works fine on basic DC locos but shows an overload when trying to run Walthers or Athearn sound locos.  All work well with the older MRC Railline 370--but not with the later Trainpower 5.  Suggestions are welcome.  Must I replace the Trainpower 5?