I've been to the bar at Grand Central Terminal in NYC. I suppose we aren't talking about, are we?
I'm probably going to use terminal strips for my new layout. I've got a bunch of DC locos and when the layout is done, the hobby budget will then be used to upgrade to DCC. By wiring BOTH rails in each block back to the control center, the rewire to DCC will be both mentally and physically simpler. I'm still a bit vague on how to apply this stradegy to turnout controls. By the time I get to that, the answers will have been covered in MR's DCC corner column, I hope.(or did I blink and miss it already?)
You're not going to have a problem with the screw terminals provided you torque them properly.
Remember, your entire home wiring is connected with screw terminals. They work well.
Cars are subjected to much more humidity, temperature variations and vibrations than MRRs. In automotive applications screw (bolt) terminals are used in the starter input, alternator output, relays and ground connections to name a few. Rarely do I find a problem if the proper torque is used.
Jim
Cisco Kid wrote: But I got to thinking...these contacts are very open to the air and perhaps to tarnishing and corrosion from ordinary household humidity. The layout is in a pretty well controlled environment, but perhaps even so over time the contacts within these blocks might fail.Has anyone an opinion or experience hooking up the wiring this way? I have seen these used well for the bus wire set up, but worry more about the tiny wires for the switches.
But I got to thinking...these contacts are very open to the air and perhaps to tarnishing and corrosion from ordinary household humidity. The layout is in a pretty well controlled environment, but perhaps even so over time the contacts within these blocks might fail.
Has anyone an opinion or experience hooking up the wiring this way? I have seen these used well for the bus wire set up, but worry more about the tiny wires for the switches.
Cisco.
I spent 41 years as a Serviceman & Service Supervisor for a large Gas Company. A good number of those years were spent servicing LARGE commercial and industrial boilers, burners and other gas equipment in all types of environments. Even Heating Units on the roofs of apartment buildings that were exposed to the elements in our hot humid summers and our D----d cold winters. Every one of them had at least one or two terminal strips to connect all the components to their respective circuits. In all those years, I do not remember any terminal strips that were corroded badly enough that I had to change it. There was probably a few that were tarnished a little, but they never caused any problems in that respect.
If you just snug the screws down firmly, I do not think that you will have any problems in regards to the terminal strips and any changes will be easy to accomplish.
Blue Flamer.
Sometimes I think too much has been made of the soldering vs. mechanical connection issue in model railroading. Yes, soldering is solid and nearly 100% reliable, but a properly-made mechanical connection is darn near close to 100% as well. Think about all the wiring stuff you encoutner from day to day - most of the wiring in your car, appliances, phone jacks, computers, etc. are made by mechanical connections. How frequently does that stuff really fail due to losing electrical continuity? Not that often, in my experience.
That being said, soldering does have one other major advantage over most mechanical connection methods, and that is cost. It is way cheaper to solder a bunch of connections than to buy all the terminal strips, connectors, etc. Sure there's more labor involved, but by the time you fiddle around with mouting terminal strips, unscrewing (and losing) the terminal screws, crimping spade connectors, etc., it takes about the same time overall.
I have a sectional/moveable layout and generally solder wherever I can, but do not hesitate to use terminal strips or plug connectors where it will make life easier when disconnecting and transporting sections.
Dan Stokes
My other car is a tunnel motor
Silver Spike,
I am into "neat" and your wiring certainly qualifies. The biggest advantage of neat wiring, aside from the aesthetics, is the ability to trace and fix problems quickly.
I used the Scotch "suitcase" connectors on one module, then switched to the Posi-Tap connectors for the rest of the layout. They go on much easier and more quickly. You can buy them in the automotive department at Wal-Mart or order direct from the factory.
John Timm
I just ordered (All Electronics via internet) 25 - dual row 4 position barrier strips and the total delivered was $31.00. That is about half the cost from Radio Shack - although you did have to buy a minimum of 25 for that price at the net site.
ENJOY,
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
John,
One of the "new" techniques I used on the recent rewiring was the shrink tubes. They were a lifesaver, but I forgot to mention them in my earlier posting reply. The "goop" I referred to was a help in more complicated wiring connections, which were only about 3 or 4 in number.
Also used were "suitcase" connectors to connect a second wire to an existing wire, and the cramp style connectors to connect two wires together. All worked fine, but I still check with a tester after making the joint.
I'm pretty well color coded, and the rewire is fairly well organized. And yes, I do have diagrams, which will be re-done to include in my binder of notes.
All that being said, I still like to make a nice, neat, solder connection!
I have had some issues with wires pulling out of the euro style connectors if they are too small for the connector. Otherwise, those connectors are great and avoid any possibility of an accidental short.
I use one for each tortoise and wherever I have stuff I expect to change around.. for instance where the bus reaches the DCC booster, where my stationary controllers go to the switch machines, that sort of thing. Just make sure you get one sized appropriatly for the wire you are using to avoid drop outs.
Remember, you can trim them to whatever size you want.. sometimes its more economical to get one larger then you need and use what you trim off for something else. It can also be helpful to tin any stranded wire you plan to stick in them.
For everything else (track feeders mostly) I solder, but I like soldering. I think if I didn't enjoy it I would likely be using suitcase connectors and terminal strips for more of my other connections.
Chris
Hi mobliman44
Have you tried heat shrink tubing on your soldered joints as nesassary far better than the brush on stuff.
It can be trusted in multi wire situations a lot more than the brush on goop no nasty smell either unless you cook it.
One point not mentioned so far by anyone is keep your wiring neat tidy and well marked.
Also draw a diagram or by the time you do have problems you will have forgotten what does what
If you can use a definite colour code red & black in only definite + and - situations, and say blue and white with a blue trace up main line track feed purple and purple with white trace down main track feed, and so on repeating the code in every same situation
Keep to the colour coding you set up so it aids fault finding.
You want to play trains not spend forever sorting out faults
just a few more thoughts
regards John
jacon12 wrote: I like this thread, mainly because I HATE soldering under a layout. So, I'd like to cut down on it as much as possible. I have a question.. I'm no expert so bear with me. I was under the assumption that you're 'supposed' to keep track wires as short as possible, so in this method are you running the track leads from several soldered spots on the track down to the terminal block and from there making one soldered connection to the main buss?I was thinking about this for under the roundhouse and all the tracks around it but would love to apply it everywhere.Jarrell
I like this thread, mainly because I HATE soldering under a layout. So, I'd like to cut down on it as much as possible. I have a question.. I'm no expert so bear with me. I was under the assumption that you're 'supposed' to keep track wires as short as possible, so in this method are you running the track leads from several soldered spots on the track down to the terminal block and from there making one soldered connection to the main buss?
I was thinking about this for under the roundhouse and all the tracks around it but would love to apply it everywhere.
Jarrell
When I was in the Air Force, I was an Avionics Technician, so I'm used to soldering in tight places. In many cases, I'll "pair" the drops so they straddle a joint, about 2 or 3 inches from the railjoiner so I only have to do the following about every 6 feet. I actually cut the buss wire and slip a piece of heat shrink tubing over one end, then do a western union splice to the buss wire. I bring the ends of the drop leads to the splice, twist them over, then solder the whole thing. Then slide the heat shrink tubing over the joint, heat it to shrink, and the joint is done. It probably took you almost as long to read this as it does to do it. Each buss wire is connected to a terminal strip labeled for its block, then the wire is fed to the panel. A properly labeled terminal strip will make troubleshooting much easier when you need to do it. (notice I didn't say "if")
I don't worry too much about the length of the drop lead, I make them fit the situation. If you're worried about the amount of current through the smaller gauge wire, consider that even if all rail joiners fail electrically, it will only be powering your loco(s) as they travel 3 feet, then there's no current through them.
For leads to short tracks like for a roundhouse, I usually don't use a buss wire. I simply run the smaller lead the whole length from the track to the control panel.
Hi,
If you are really worried about corrosion, you could pick up a can of battery terminal spray from an auto parts store. Frankly, you should not have a problem with corrosion for those connections, and if corrosion is a problem, it is certainly hurting your track and locos and solenoids that much more.
I'm an old solder nut, but on my recent rewire I used a number of the new connectors available from Lowes or Home Depot. They do work, and are easier to use, but I still check the circuit with a simple connectivity tester.
By the way, there is some "goop" available that you can brush on solder connections to insulate them. It is like a liquid tar, smells a bit and takes a few hours to dry. I've used it in a few places and its ok, but I am not totally trusting of it in wire congested areas.
Cisco Kid wrote:That is good to hear...no diminishing connectivity in your experience.BTW This is a barrier strip...it has barriers between the terminals. I have used these quite a bit on my first layout.....but not with switch wires.
That is good to hear...no diminishing connectivity in your experience.
BTW This is a barrier strip...it has barriers between the terminals. I have used these quite a bit on my first layout.....but not with switch wires.
Cisco,
As long as your layout is not subject to a lot of humidity, etc, connectivity should never be a problem.However there is a really great product made called ACF 50, which is sold in spray cans for anywhere from 15 to 20 dollars.It totally prevents corrosion, and will dissolve and stop any that has started.It can be bought through Aircraft Spruce and Specialty.
Works on aircraft, automotive, etc.GREAT STUFF!
Ed
Jarrell,
I try to keep my track leads in most cases to no more that 6"-8" in length from the buss to the soldered connection on the track rails. In my previous post the last image shows an example of where I have wired several tracks to the buss with 3M Scotch Locs (suitcase connectors) and these feeder wires are no more than 6"-8" in length. My buss wires run the entire length of benchwork and generally are centered near the majority of tracks, I also keep enough slack in the buss to allow for it to make gentle bends where needed for the feeder track drops.
When I have to run a buss in multiple locations from the main buss I use the terminal blocks to split the buss in several directions.
Ryan BoudreauxThe Piedmont Division Modeling The Southern Railway, Norfolk & Western & Norfolk Southern in HO during the merger eraCajun Chef Ryan
I use both terminal bars that you mentioned as well as solder when necessary, and I also use the 3M Scotch Locs for connecting my buss wire to track leads. I have had no problems with any of these electrical connections.
Here are a few implementations of said items:
Cheers,
Ryan
Hi desertdog
You will not be able to avoid soldering all together some joints are best soldered
But like you I have used various types of chocolate block connectors without problems.
The variety I have found most useful is the plug and socket version which can be separated into two halves like a plug and socket ( they are not cheap ) making it very easy to track a short or open CCT
Both systems have failures from time to time. Do what you like, but the key is to do a proper job of it.
I think that failures have a lot to do with expansion and contraction over time. Things heat up seasonally and then cool. Things heat up during shorts, and then cool. Things swell and move apart when ambient humidity rises, and then revert, or try to, once the humidity returns to the previous level. And so on. Having lived a few years, I know that these things cause screws to back out, but they also cause solders to break and let go.
Life's tough. But, there's always model railroading!
My experience: All of my wiring is done terminal-to-terminal. The only solder joints are at the rails, the solder lugs of switch machines and other 'end user' devices on the layout and the solder lugs of panel control switches. In decades of use (my oldest date from 1980,) I have never had a terminal-related electrical problem.
My opinion: It's the only way to fly!
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
My only negatives with screw terminal barrier blocks were:
1) screws loosened and fell out over time, almost always in the unused terminals. I'm not sure why at this point. These were terminal blocks mounted to the underside of an O27 layout with track screwed directly into the 1/2" plywood. Could have been vibration with the trains running, vibrations when the layout was moved (gets bounced pretty good going across country in a moving van), or just dumb me forgetting to tighten all the screws after loosening them to install bus strips.
2) paying Radio Shack prices for these things - another dumb move on my part. When will I learn not to buy at Radio Shark?
I would use them again because of the ease of making changes to the wiring. I prefer to break the various bus periodically at terminal strips, and connect my feeders there, rather than soldering feeders to a continuous bus. Since my layouts are small, and no DCC so far (although I plan to change that), the slight extra resistance introduced by breaking the bus is insignificant. And I will check all screws at a terminal strip each time I work at one from now on.
The style you show are probably less prone to having screws loosen, and are cheaper to boot. They are just not as easy to convert to a distribution terminal block.
yours in wiring
Fred W
Probably better than soldering, in my opinion. No possibility of a cold joint, and the whole joint is held stable.
Jeff But it's a dry heat!
Cisco Kid wrote: But I got to thinking...these contacts are very open to the air and perhaps to tarnishing and corrosion from ordinary household humidity. The layout is in a pretty well controlled environment, but perhaps even so over time the contacts within these blocks might fail.
Not to worry. When the screws are tightened down on your wires (or terminal lugs) the copper squishes out a little bit and all the air is forced out of the joint. Air is what does the tarnishing. oxidizing and rusting that you are worried about. The joints are "gas tight" and will not corrode.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
Gate 5
I am just about to wire up an expansion to the layout. I had planned to use these mini terminal bars to quickly hook up both the drop feeders/bus wires AND the switch leads.. I checked to see that the small gauge switch leads will be held tightly by the terminal blocks...and all is fine in that regard.
I am just using Atlas HO code 83 snap switches....have had no problem with them in the past in any regard.