Distant signal wiring

[Edmunds]

Thank you for your help everyone.
I managed to crack the thing. See below how.

http://web.mac.com/edmundssprudzs/iWeb/EdmundsWEB/DistantAndHomeAignalWiring.html

Regards,

/Edmunds

[Gandy Dancer]

LEDS and AC to answer your questions.

Ok, so my next question is about the LEDs.  Are there two leads for each LED?  That is two wires for red, two wires for yellow, and two wires for green?  Or is there some sort of common wire with only one  additional wire for each color.   In that case, is there separate wire for the combinations like yellow-yellow and green-yellow or are you "creating" the combination situations by using multiple leads?

[marknewton]

Thanks for what I realize is a relevant question Mark. I am from Latvia. Google to find it on the World map :P.

Oh, I know where it is, Edmunds - one of my mates at work is originally from Gulbene! He's not long ago come back from a holiday there, and he brought me back some great photos of the narrow gauge railway to Aluksne. Lots of photos of TU2s and Pafawags! (The narrow gauge railways of the Baltic states are one of my interests, as you might have guessed.)

The signal system I have learned and have easy access to parts of is German. Thus the missunderstandings on what should be showed when. Nevermind that, just if someone could help me with the wiring part. I'm sure, there are people strong enough in electronics to help solving the puzzle. Some people even invent their own electric circuits when they come across a problem, right?

Yes, there are many modellers who are electronically talented. Unfortunately I'm not one of them, or I'd offer you some help. But at least we've established what it is you're trying to do. Good luck with the signal wiring, do let us know how you progress.

All the best,

Mark.

[Edmunds]

Thank you for your reply,

LEDS and AC to answer your questions. I have no problem with the number of relays in principle, although I would love to replace them with ICs if I would know how. The relays I tried turned out to draw too much current, so the ones I wanted to use did not work. While trying, I also discovered although I had over 20 wires connecting different contacts with contacts, there was still an error, which meant that in case I switched on green+yellow, one of the relays was pulled to both sides :) . So, I still do not have a circuit with the many relays that works even though I found smaller relays that do work and I have piles of them at hand.

Diodes came to my mind. They would not work with AC, right? Is it because the principle for them would be the direction of the current flow? Could you think of a way I could use DC power for part of the necessary circuit?

Can you give me a hint on where you would start designing that never-ending chain of relays?

/Edmunds

[Gandy Dancer]

The third option is a problem. My gut feeling says it is about relays, but I'm on count two for the number of relays with 4 2-pole switches each and I'm still unable to separate the circuits.

It always takes more relays than one thinks it should, and usually twice as many +1.   In this particular case, are the signals LEDs or lamps, and is the power AC or DC?  If this circuit is with real lamps then diodes rather than relays might be useful to do what you are asking.

[dehusman]

Sorry for the misunderstanding on the type of signal system. 

Unfortunately neither I nor anyone I know has used ROCO signal products.

Dave H.

[Edmunds]

Thanks for what I realize is a relevant question Mark. I am from Latvia. Google to find it on the World map :P.

The signal system I have learned and have easy access to parts of is German. Thus the missunderstandings on what should be showed when. Nevermind that, just if someone could help me with the wiring part. I'm sure, there are people strong enough in electronics to help solving the puzzle. Some people even invent their own electric circuits when they come across a problem, right?

/Edmunds

[marknewton]

I suspect the OP is not modelling a North American railroad, hence the unfamiliar signal apects and indications.

Edmunds, what railway's signals are you modelling?

Cheers,

Mark.

[dehusman]

Hi all,

I'm wiring my HO DCC layout with ROCO hardware and I have a problem wiring the distant signal for an entry signal properly, since I have very much decided to get this working with three statuses of the distant signal - two greens, two yellows and one green and one yellow to indicate proceed slowly to be expected on the home signal.

Distant signals have one indication yellow, meaning prepare to stop at the next signal.  Then that signal can have the various indications.

Two greens and one green is the same thing in most signal systems.

I would read up on signal systems.  As long as you are going to go to the trouble of installing signals you might as well install something that makes sense.

The home signal is operated by the signal decoder and works nicely showing all three aspects - red, green and yellow+green.

Why yellow + green? That is normally some sort of advance approach signal that tells you to go by the next signal at limited speed (usually about 60 mph).

Assuming you want the distant signal to change indications.

On red on the home signal, yellow 1 and yellow 2 should go on on the distant.

Home signal = Stop = Red, Distant signal = Approach = Yellow

On green on the home signal, green 1 and green 2 should go on on the distant.

Home signal = Clear = Green, distant signal = Clear = green

On yellow+green on the home signal, green 1 and yellow 2 should go on on the distant.

Don't have a clue since I don't know what yellow and green is supposed to be telling me.  What is a train doing on a yellow and green?  Since you are using distant signals that says there aren't any signals past the interlocking (dark terriroty) so you can't give an approach since there is no next signal.  Unless the yellow/green means you are going on some diverging route in which case it would be a red over green, red over yellow or red over lunar (bluish white).

Dave H.

T

[Anonymous]

A "Distant Signal" is just that. A signal indicating you are approaching an interlocking of some type. Usually a distant signal will have a yellow, "Approach" signal if the home, or interlocking signal is not line to proceed.

In CTC or ABS territory, where there may be a diverging route , your could get a "Diverging Approach," or "Diverging Clear" if the other end of the siding is lined for you to proceed.

On the model railroads I have built in the past, they have been run as "Dark Territory" as they have no signals, except for interlocking signals. They have either been in the "Fixed Approach" with a yellow aspect that never changes as it just indicates that you are approaching an interlocking. Be prepared to stop. Or I would wire up the distant signal to change from yellow to green to indicate that the home signal is lined to proceed.

 If you could find a RR Rule book for the RR you are modeling, you would gain a lot of information on signal rules and aspects and how they are used.

 Good luck,

cf7

[BigRusty]

On my last layout, DC operated, I used only the 3 color RYG signals. The method I used was to include a relay at each signal. If there was current to the Red lamp in Block A the relay for block B was energized and changed the current from the G to the Y on that signal. When block A was clear the relay dropped out and the signal reverted to G and the relay for block B then dropped out and  became G. In other words, each signal has to know the aspects of the signal before it to know what aspects it should show. I used 3PDT relays to isolate the lamp power from the relay power and provide frog power when needed.

[Anonymous]

You are already ahead of me as Im just learning about distants and homes in old issues of MR. Specifically the 5 part series published around Jan of 1961.

I myself plan to use the Digitrax Se8c board to run signals and am learning a little bit there as well.

All I can think of at this time is relays. Im not familar with your hardware and can only speculate.

[Edmunds]

Hi all,

I'm struggling with this for 2 nights now, so I thought of asking some smart people.

I'm wiring my HO DCC layout with ROCO hardware and I have a problem wiring the distant signal for an entry signal properly, since I have very much decided to get this working with three statuses of the distant signal - two greens, two yellows and one green and one yellow to indicate proceed slowly to be expected on the home signal.

The home signal (entry) has 4 wires - common, green, yellow and red.
The distant signal has 5 wires - common, green 1, green 2, yellow 1 and yellow 2.

The home signal is operated by the signal decoder and works nicely showing all three aspects - red, green and yellow+green.

On red on the home signal, yellow 1 and yellow 2 should go on on the distant.
On green on the home signal, green 1 and green 2 should go on on the distant.
On yellow+green on the home signal, green 1 and yellow 2 should go on on the distant.

The third option is a problem. My gut feeling says it is about relays, but I'm on count two for the number of relays with 4 2-pole switches each and I'm still unable to separate the circuits.

Please ... anyone? :)

Regards,

/Edmunds