I have not checked the forum in a while, but I want to thank everyone for thier input. That's why I join these things. I have decided to pass on the SEB, and do some more research and pricing around since I am not in a hurry.......might have to wait until after x-mas...or maybe that's what I'll ask Santa to bring me...a nice DCC system with 6 or so decoders (with sound) and an accessory decoder to operate around 10 turnouts......LOL!! Wishfull thinking..
Thanks again everyone!
John
Aaah, okay, it all comes together for me now. Thanks for getting back to me.
-Crandell
selector wrote: Falls Valley RR wrote: ...I remember programming the engine on a friend's SEB. The SEB did a good job programming but one had to watch that engine and consult a crystal ball and determine the success or failure of that programming.Is that process different from the process on other systems? Does the operator not have to observe changes and then to alter the programming in a series of trails with all systems? Reading CV's is surely handy, but the DT 400 remembers the last input when you are programming...at least, mine does, and displays the last CV setting. So if you are running an engine at speed setting of 10 and wanting to set the chuff rate, you simply bracket the ideal number and then find it in a series of trials. Record the number in a handy chart and you don't really need the readback anyway. This is beside the point, I know, but I guess I am not following your point. Perhaps I have misunderstood your statement, Falls Valley RR.-Crandell
Falls Valley RR wrote: ...I remember programming the engine on a friend's SEB. The SEB did a good job programming but one had to watch that engine and consult a crystal ball and determine the success or failure of that programming.
...I remember programming the engine on a friend's SEB. The SEB did a good job programming but one had to watch that engine and consult a crystal ball and determine the success or failure of that programming.
Is that process different from the process on other systems? Does the operator not have to observe changes and then to alter the programming in a series of trails with all systems? Reading CV's is surely handy, but the DT 400 remembers the last input when you are programming...at least, mine does, and displays the last CV setting. So if you are running an engine at speed setting of 10 and wanting to set the chuff rate, you simply bracket the ideal number and then find it in a series of trials. Record the number in a handy chart and you don't really need the readback anyway. This is beside the point, I know, but I guess I am not following your point.
Perhaps I have misunderstood your statement, Falls Valley RR.
Im sorry if I confused the issue. The engine I refered to that one experience with the SEB turned out to have had a bad speaker. No matter what we did we could not get it to speak. Literally.
I passed up the SEB and went straight to the Chief. CV readback and lots of room for power and locos was key for me.
SEB is obselete. However, it is not a bad price for it provided you had a PC for programming engines with today's software and interfaces.
But that price is probably very low because no one wants the SEB anyhow.
The DT400 is the throttle you want if you are going that way.
My personal unbiased opinion is that Digitrax should just offer the Zephyr, and then the Zephyr Deluxe with the DT400 and 5 amp power and finally the Chief.
I remember programming the engine on a friend's SEB. The SEB did a good job programming but one had to watch that engine and consult a crystal ball and determine the success or failure of that programming.
Its a good price but I think you may become frustrated with the limitations of the DB150. I have the equivelent of the super empire builder and become frustrated with the limitations of not reading back CVs as well as not being able to program routes. They are not fatal problems, and I enjoy my system, but eventually I will be replacing the DB150 and then it becomes redundant.
I have no experience with the DT300 throttle as I had them sub a DT400 into my super empire II when I bought it back 5-6 years ago. I do like having a walk around throttle, it greatly adds to the enjoyment of even my small layout.
I would look seriously at other options in the price range including the zephyr or the nce powercab if I was buying today. When I bought my system they were not available and I simply could not afford the chief.
Chris
I agree the ability to read back CV's is important. The Empire Builder series booster is best used for an expansion booster since it will not read back CV's. I started out with an E Builder and it was quite workable. However, I soon advanced to the Super Chief.
I still use several of the older Digitrax DT100 throttles. They can control 2 consists or locos and they are small and compact. However, Digitrax no longer services them. Bummer! Could this happen to the DT300 soon?
I don't know of any Digitrax throttle with capability of controling more then 2 consists or locos. Is there such an animal?
Now, if I was still building and needed more power than just my Zephyr, for that price I'd buy it. The DB150 makes a great add-on booster to a Zephyr or the DCS100 fromt he Super Chief, and the DT300 throttle is usable even if limited to 8 functions. For sounds locos all I REALLY need is F0 for the lights, and bell, and horn/whistle. The other stuff is neat to trigger occasionally but many of the other sounds are also automatic, hopefully at the appropriate time.
In fact if you start with a Zephyr and later want more, it's actually cheaper to buy even the Super Empire Builder at full price than it is to buy a DB150 and a DT400 seperately. The UP5 you get in the set is effectively free. This IMO is the only real use for the SEB, I would not recommend anyone new to DCC to start with any form of the DB150 if you go with Digitrax. The lack of CV readback and no dedicated program track connection I think make things MORE complicated for a beginner.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
John, it should be noted that with a DCC system you can create a multi unit lash up or consist. This might include 2, 3 or more locomotives that respond to the commands sent to the lead locomotive. So in this way you can control more than one loco within the same train. The DT300 and its successor the DT400 would allow you to control 2 such consists.
You can always control more than 1 loco independently with a DCC system, but you will have to stay on your toes. lets say you have a double track main and a yard. Using your single throttle you can call up loco 1001 a nice E unit passenger train and get it cruising on one of the mains. With the same throttle, select loco 245 a GP9 powered freight. The E unit continues at the speed and direction you set. Get the GP running on the 2nd main. Then select 9025 a switcher in the yard. The E and the GP just carry on. The throttle is now in command of the switcher and you can be making a breaking trains. Stop the switcher and re-select 1001 and you are now back in direct control of the E unit. Its easy to do and as long as you don't have to worry about switches and collisions it can work fine. The problem comes if you have to do a lot of juggling between the locos.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
With most systems you can (theoretically) control even more than two per cab, but only have active control of one or two at a time. Some controllers are more or less two throttles in one package (the DT300 being such a beast), so you can dial up two locos, and control them both independently. Then, if you want to run more, you just select another and run it. The one you were controlling with that throttle just keeps doing what it was doing, until you reselect it. For me, nothing good could come from such an arrangement, but it can be done. Some throttles are single throttles, but have a 'stack' of locos that you can cycle through to control. Beyond about 1, well maybe 2, it seems like trouble, but you can do it. It should also be clarified that the throttle controlling one loco can mean controlling one consist, or set of locos. So you can run a train being pulled by multiple locos from one throttle, pretty much like real life, without the diesel fuel.
Actually passing on this may cost less in the long run, depending on what you end up getting, since you won't be replacing as much.
Jeff But it's a dry heat!
Thanks for the feedback. I have learned something. So even if you can only control two locos at a time....you can add more cabs to control more....
Is it safe to say that you can control two locos PER cab? or just one per? I don't plan on runnning Union Station or anything, but I would like to run up to 6 or so at the same time.
Even though this is a good price, I think I will hold out for something alittle more up to date, even thought it will cost me more in the long run....I'd rather have something I can get service and tech help with.
Thanks again!!
According to Digitrax's website - the Empire Builder II pre-dates the SEB. The manual found on their website dates to 2002. I found the info under the "Heritage" section of support.
http://www.digitrax.com/kb/index.php?a=249
As others have stated the DB150 does not have a program track connection option and issues with CV readback. As far as the DT300 or DT400 only controlling two locos at a time - how many do you plan on using at once? If you have a large layout and want multiple operators - you can purchase additional controllers.
TwinDaddy66 wrote: I'm not sure what the model of the power pack was, but it did say 5 amp.So the DT400 would be a better choice? I did notice the DT300 will only control 2 loco's at a time. Is this the norm for most DCC controllers or are there ones that can actively control more? I mean geez...I can control 2 or more locos on DC right now...granted they run the same direction and speed blah blah blah...but you see what I mean....
I'm not sure what the model of the power pack was, but it did say 5 amp.
So the DT400 would be a better choice? I did notice the DT300 will only control 2 loco's at a time. Is this the norm for most DCC controllers or are there ones that can actively control more? I mean geez...I can control 2 or more locos on DC right now...granted they run the same direction and speed blah blah blah...but you see what I mean....
Okay. I have found the 5 amp supply to be plenty, so you are probably good there. The DT400 throttle does have the two encoder knobs at the top, and that means you can run two engines, or a combo of engine/consists with the one throttle...a very nice feature. If that pertains to the DT300, it would be a most welcome feature. I will allow that the buttons could be somewhat larger on the 400, maybe even backlit continuously. Might be hard on batteries when untethered.
As stated by others, CV readback is a problem with the SEB using the DB 150. However, you can get around that if you are willing to scribble marginal notes with the CV settings you eventually settle on as you experiment with a given loco. Trouble is, I have found that there is such a thing as "setting creep." As a loco ages, its settings will often need adjustment..small stuff, and it doesn't bother me. Those marginal notes will therefore tend to creep around the margins as you add new information.
Can't have it all, I guess. So, the price quoted is probably a decent one. A new DT400 is near $150 if memory serves, give or take $20.
That's the throttle that an only control two locos at a time. The system can control many more. You'll probably end up with a mix of throttles, some with basic capability, just to run trains, and some with more capability for setting up consists and performing other operations. On downside of the current SEB is that it cannot read back CVs. That may or may not be critical for you, for some people it is a dealbreaker. Of couse, at that price, you might keep the throttle and the booster, and use a Zephyr for the command station and still save money.
I think the Empire Builder series, no matter the designation, are dated architecture. Also, I am not familiar with the DT300, so I am unable to comment. My Super Empire Builder, purchased three years ago, came with the wonderful DT400, and I purchased a second I like them so much.
What power supply can you use with the SEB II? The plain old SEB can use 5 amps, purchased separately.
Still, if you have the basic DB 150 base station and a good throttle, it should serve you well. On the other hand, if you want expandability, it may ...may...make more sense to go with the Zephyr. Here I will step aside and let others help you out.
Hi all, I know this has likely been addressed before, but I haven't quite found what I am looking for by searching previous posts so forgive my repitition....
My LHS has a spanking new Digitrax Empire Builder II on clearance for half price (167.50) and I am wondering if this is a good system or is it dated? It comes with the DT300 controller and other neat stuff including 1 loco decoder. Has anyone used this system as a first time DCC experience? Happy/not happy etc? I tried researching on the Digitrax website, but all they list is the Super Empire Builder (Tony's as well). I think for the price it's a steal, but would it be worth it? I'm new to DCC (or will be) so please be gentle (LOL)!
Thanks a million...