Hi John,
Just a few suggestions to add to the many excellent ones already given. From what I see, the entire room is painted a uniform light blue. If you do not wish to paint on the walls, one can use banner photos of the actual scenery and hide the transition in blue with wispy painted clouds, or a line of cumulous clouds,(as in my photo). I prefer to stipple on clouds with nearly a dry brush, and flat acrylic paint If you wish to paint in a mountain backdrop, there is a step by step article by Pelle Soeborg p.74-77 in the Jan.2007 issue of MR. (As to covering the window); I solved this problem by painting a continuation of the scene on a pull-down removable window shade. What is neat about this method, is that you can have several painted window shades to substitute, if you want a change of scenery. One effective way to place connifers along a ridge, is to snip off the rear side of the connifers, so that the trunk lies flat against the backdrop. By glueing brush ahead of the base of the trunks, one gets a very realistic effect. Dyed thistles, or faux fur are excellent for making scraggly mountain brush. I might suggest that you paint the plywood rear side of the free-standing mountain scene, with a muted grey or green.
Having seen your prototype, the one thing that jumped out and bit me was the absence of the other side of the canyon, behind the entire scene. From the road, it's well above eye level.
Also, from the split end looking southeast, is the land-borne leg of the wye exposed? The prototype goes through a tunnel.
Just took a look at the satellite view of the area. There is a fair amount of forest, but not on the near-vertical cliff faces.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Great modelling Jwar, I wish I had your talent for bridges and tressels.
By my avatar you can tell that I am familiar with this scene you are representing here.
If you go to the orginal site or good photographs of it, the main difference you are going to see is the coloration of the mountains. I think you would have a totally different perspective created, one that would more accuratly depict what you are trying to recreate if you went to many different shades of greys, even darker ones, some lending into lite shade of blue.
The rockwalls in this scene should leave no doubt that they are "Granite Mountains" not sandstone etc.
If you are interested in selling a couple of bridges I know a Brass Hat that might want to buy them..
Keep up the good work and Long live the Wobbly.
James:1 Verse:5
Johnboy out..........
from Saskatchewan, in the Great White North..
We have met the enemy, and he is us............ (Pogo)
Well first of all, I've been a big fan of watching you put this scene together. Excellent work. Great scratchbuilding. I find your rock colors for the most part to be done very well.
What I think would really add to this scene is if you took the time to really add a great amount and variety of sparse vegetation.
Also maybe try to create and illusion of greater depth by suggesting a more distant treeline/ ridge at the top of the scenery where it meets the wall.............
You may consider painting the continuation of this gorge onto the backdrop I think that would add the kind of depth your modelling here deserves.
Last but not least......your trucks are to shiny!!!!
Great work!
Martin
Bear "It's all about having fun."
There is not much more I could add as these guys were very thorough.
Do you have an airbrush? Hit all the scenery with a dust color to tie in the scenery and tone down some of those stripes, even the trees and bridge.The big stripe is an eye catcher but it does happen, but in our modeling world we want to detract from landforms to focus on bridges and trains. A slight suggestion is all that is needed.
For me the rear bridge needs much more weathering and toning down, it would likely be shaded a bit by the front brodge.
In looking at the photo(proto) the sky is not immediately behind the bridge in the picture at all, therefor I would fill the section behind the bridge with trees and foilage.
More talus as suggested and fewer vehicles on the roads would suggest traffic without pulling one interest away.
Now another train of thought is to keep interest in the area when there is no train. Is this your goal? This is all personal opinions so of course you can do what you want. Having many sub-scenes in an area can keep someone focused on the area instead of following every turn of the axles therefor extending the layout. Its all in the feeling the viewer get out of it. When one is looking into the scene one will not neccessarily know where the train comes from nor ends up, it could be a good advantage.
Very nice work and thanks for trusting us to answer sincerily.Could have been risky.
John
John,
The scene is very good. We are looking at Keddie Wye right??? The rocks are good and the bridge is also very well done. Here are a few suggestions, please don't take this stuff personally, I'm calling it like I see it:
1. Get rid of the road underneath the bridge. It doesn't look right for lots of reasons. The curve geometry is wrong, the logging truck heading into the scene fully loaded has no where to go but most important is that I think that it distracts from the beautiful work on the rocks and the bridge and has the "everything including the kitchen sink" look that says model train layout rather than Keddie Wye.
2. A little more weathering on the bridge and surrounding rocks using dust. This area of CA is very dry and has a dusty feel. I would dust up the rocks to kill a bit of the shine on them as well.
3. Mute some of the very bright hues in the scenery and trees. As per above, maybe liberal use of dust can accomplish this.
4. Trees. Get some good looking pines and using your proto photo as a guide, place them in the scene. The placement of the ones currently in the scene look a little improbable where they are. Use you proto picture to help with coloring of the trees and also with the height. Most model trees are too brite green to be realistic and they can often be too short. You will have to gauge correct tree height by how much shortening you did on the bridge height (I presume that you didn't build it full size in terms of height off the ground) to keep the correct illusion going.
5. Loose rock. You need much more of this than you currently have in the scene. This area on the prototype has lots of loose decomposing (granite I think) rock in talus fields all over the place. All of your flat areas around and under the cliffs need lots of loose rock Take plaster scraps and sieve them for uniform size, woodland scenic sells talus (pricy) or I know of at least one modeler that uses clay kitty litter that has been colored to the right hue. Use several sizes all the way down to dust to give the right effect.
6. Yes a backdrop will help, but I think these other issues are more important. The ridge idea for the backdrop is good, I would also use very muted colors to give the impression of depth.
I hope some of these suggestions help.
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
jwar wrote:I know most of the regulars here are getting bored with this scene, and now its your chance to jump on it. What would you change, add to, remove to the scenery.
I'm answering before I read the other replies just so I don't prejudice myself. I think I would ditch the picture of the real bridge from the background! - Seriously I think an appropriate backdrop instead of just the blue sky would add some more depth. As you already suggested a row of trees or dummy trees between the bridge and the rock would make the bridge look a bit more like the real picture. It could just be the angle of the photo but in the reall one all I see is trees. Personally I don't like the trucks on the road below, is there really that much traffic around the base of the bridge? Seems to distract from the bridge itself.
It might also help to get a picture of the scene without a train in it. The train should be an extra that draws the attention from the scene (bridge in this case) to itself for a time (while it passes through), then the viewer's attention should be drawn back to the primary element in the scene again (the bridge).
Most of the things I thought of that could improve scene ..mainly backdrop and a few more trees..have already been mentioned ...except one.
In the photo looking down on the bridge, my eye has first been drawn (several times now) to the brown semi that is about to ram the blue Camaro. Assuming the semi driver has parked to enjoy the overlook, he would never pull that close to a car in front, because he couldn't exit without backing up. Also, if I owned a '69 big block SS, I wouldn't park it out in the middle of the road. I'd always park that Marina Blue ragtop out of harm's way.
I suggest you move the Camaro left, closer to the guardrail. Then the semi driver can get out, and the Camaro driver is protecting his baby. Nitpicky perhaps, but every time I saw that shot that's the thing that drew my eye first.
Overalll fantastic modeling. Wish I was at that level.
Regards, Bill
Your scenery skills are excellent. But you should consider getting rid of the photo on the wall and adding a backdrop that compliments your scene.
Also, there is a diagonal brown stripe on the left side rock work that is very distracting. Consider repainting it to remove it or at least lessen it's impact.
Adding a touch of gray to the rocks might not be a bad idea. But all in all, you did an awesome job.
Jim
Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale
I'd have to go with the others on the backdrop issue. That would do a lot for the scene. The other thing that strikes me is that you have a lot more rock (great looking BTW!) showing then the real scene. The real scene has a lot more greenery, mostly trees. You can see what I mean here: http://www.pneyman.com/gallery/d/6334-1/KeddieWye2.jpg http://www.trainweb.org/amtrakiowa/images/keddie_wye.jpg http://www.robl.w1.com/Transport/96-0154.jpg http://azoony.com/hattrips/trains/looking-down-feather-river-caynon-trestle-sm.jpg http://members.trainorders.com/tckev/images/keddie1.jpg
These are all easy fixes!
Other then that, you've nailed it!
I'm only familiar with this scene from photos, but your model looks like it's really coming together. I do have this suggestion. By your own admission you have been working on this project for a very long time. Maybe it's time to step back for a while, forget about it as a specific project , run some trains and work on some other area (other than scenery). Taking a rest from it may give you a fresh perspective when you finally return to it.
Ray
I think that the first thing to do would be to put in a backdrop. You could do a photo-quality backdrop or even jsut paint a horizon onto it. This will give the scene a "place" in the world. You may find that this is enough to complete the scene. I would do this before adding too many trees/ bushes etc. in case the backdrop is all you need... in an attempt to avoid cluttering the foreground scene. Although, I notice your prototype photo has a million trees in it! Nice rocks by the way!
For me, the thing that draws my eye's is the bridge.
Looking at the first photo:
The larger / easy to reach places are weathered well, but, several of the smaller / harder to reach parts look a little odd - perhaps it just the light, but some of the bracing and the span in the rear just doesn't look weathered and it stands out against the weathered parts. Again it could just be the way the light it hitting it.
That is a great scene. I am a tree man so I miss the trees that the prototype support. They are of the tall skinny fir tree type and can be made quite thin. I have expermented with very thin Aggro filter on a stick but have had better luck with Astile flowers dried, and flocked with Static grass. By cutting off one side they can be placed in very narrow spaces.
I would also tone down the mountains a little. I would try dry brushing a little gray on them. That will also give a little sun highlighting.
That is a great scene, go easy on the improvments. The final judge needs to be you, you are the one that sees it the most.
While I agree that a backdrop could use a little more complexity, the real focus of the scene should be the bridge. When a train is moving on it, the eye will go to the movement.
But the brightness of the rock pulls the attention away from the bridge. I think you can tone down the rock quite a bit without loosing the feel. This could be done by adding darker colors and vegetation. But I think the (slightly) darker colors are the real key.
It doesn't have to be much, just enough to let the bridge stand out.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
twcenterprises wrote: I believe Selector is saying that some backdrop painting is in order. I assume the photo on the wall is a prototype photo for comparison purposes. The wall appears to be a single color of blue. I think Selector is suggesting painting some more distant mountains and trees to help provide a bit more forced perspective. Maybe some clouds would help break up the monotone of blue. It seems to me in your photo on the wall there are more trees in the scene than on your layout. I'd suggest adding some greenery "behind" the bridge as the photo shows. Perhaps this would offset the "color imbalance" that Selector seems to be suggesting.Personally, it looks good to me so far. It appears you have captured the flavor of the prototype pretty well. Brad
I believe Selector is saying that some backdrop painting is in order. I assume the photo on the wall is a prototype photo for comparison purposes. The wall appears to be a single color of blue. I think Selector is suggesting painting some more distant mountains and trees to help provide a bit more forced perspective. Maybe some clouds would help break up the monotone of blue. It seems to me in your photo on the wall there are more trees in the scene than on your layout. I'd suggest adding some greenery "behind" the bridge as the photo shows. Perhaps this would offset the "color imbalance" that Selector seems to be suggesting.
Personally, it looks good to me so far. It appears you have captured the flavor of the prototype pretty well.
Brad
I agree with Brad and Selector. When painting the backdrop, you could add some forced prospective with distant hills/ mountains. The area between the rock faces could be done in such a way to show some far off continuing valley.
The backdrop in this pic is only 3-4" behind the upper double track. The blue color is off and not showing the hazy greenish blue gray desired. Tried to show a distant valley that the lower track is comming from.
This was another tough spot where the track is anly 2-3" from the backdrop.
Really other than backdrop the scene looks great. The staining on the rock faces shows good detail and mineral coloring. Later you could add some additional forground detail and small scrub trees/ bushes if desired. Overall a nice scene.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
EMD - Every Model Different
ALCO - Always Leaking Coolant and Oil
CSX - Coal Spilling eXperts
I meant the ridge, no "B" in front of the word. On the high ridge behind everything, in your first photo, maybe some trees, or else paint them in since the wall is so close anyway.
The second photo suffers from the same limitation as the first...it doesn't give me a good enough feel for the whole. So, it looks fine to me, although the large gap low down on the left allows me to see more of the wall...you need something, maybe bushes or a water course?
So, in both scenes, it seems to be that the colour is wrong...too much red in it, but also there is nothing on the wall to provide perspective, a feeling of depth. The vista stops at the wall.
Does that make more sense? You need hills, or maybe only trees painted up there...I dunno what else to suggest.
With only this one photo to use for this discussion, my feeling is that it is lacking only a background, or backdrop. If I ignore that it is against a somewhat off colour blue (this is what my eyes tell me), the scenery looks terrific. You could temporarily add some bushes or tall pines, John, maybe at the highest points...on the ridges...but that's about it. What draws my eyes, what seems out of place, is what is behind.
-Crandell