You could sell the turnouts with a problem. Using a tool to make something doesn't stop if from being yours to sell. Think about the companies that make a hammer. People build a house with that hammer, but the manufactuer of the hammer doesn't have a right to "lay claim" to the house.
Consider the time you put into the turnouts. If they cost 10$ to make, is 10$ worth the the labor?Your soldering skills are going to have to be perfect, and your quality control is going to have to be the same. Just keep that in mind.
It is a viable business, but it's going to be expensive to get started. You'll need to have the fixtures for every curve of turnout, as well as the point tools and everything else... Don't forget that it'll apply to multiple scales...
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GraniteRailroader wrote: You could sell the turnouts with a problem. Just because you used a tool to make it doesn't make it yours.
You could sell the turnouts with a problem. Just because you used a tool to make it doesn't make it yours.
That is actually why I've been feeling a bit hesitant. I don't want to get FT mad or anything. Especially when they are a business and I am just a kid...
Hello Jake,
I read through these posts and I had trouble following the logic. I don't see any problem with selling turnouts made with a Fast Tracks jig. Once you buy the tool Fast Tracks doesn't have any control what you do with it.
I also think you could specialize on a limited range of turnouts. For example, I bet Code 83 #4.5's might be a good choice (I know, 4.5's are pretty severe, so maybe #5 or #6 would be better). The #4.5's are similar to the commercial Atlas #4's, and work well with shorter cars on layouts in limited space. On the other hand, maybe you could specialize in turnouts which are harder to find commercially, for example the 18"/24" curved radius turnouts.
You will have to be able to make consistently good quality turnouts, which should just take a little practice. You will also have to deal with returns from dissatisfied customers. The big question is how long will it take to recoup your investment, and what will be the hourly rate of return. I'm guessing you could learn to make a turnout in an hour. If the materials cost $10, and you sold the turnout for $20, you make $10 per hour - not too bad. It will take 15 turnouts to break even at $150 to purchase the tools.
Jim
Jake1210 wrote: GraniteRailroader wrote: You could sell the turnouts with a problem. Just because you used a tool to make it doesn't make it yours. That is actually why I've been feeling a bit hesitant. I don't want to get FT mad or anything. Especially when they are a business and I am just a kid...
Sorry, I miswrote what I meant...
Just because you used a tool, doesn't make it theirs.
It's like building a house with a hammer from Craftsman. They don't get a "commission" for you using their hammer.
I don't think there is any probelm selling them, but.....
You are going to need to sell more than 20 before you even break even. And it is going to take you more than an hour to make each one. On the other hand, if you do a good job of it you could make a couple a week, and make money, and learn some good skills.
You could sell them without the wood ties, someone sells them in stores that way (can't remember who). That would cut the time and cost down quite a bit (and get you out of the hardest part, in my opinion), unless you use the QuickSticks, which would add cost, but not much time.
So, I think you can do it, just remember that every one you sell has got to be right. You are going to make money when one person buys a bunch, not by selling one at a time. And remember the time investment, and the up front cost. It will be several months before you are in the green.
Now, if you want to be clever, learn to make special trackwork without the jigs, and make it to order! There might be money there, but also takes a good amount of skill, and more time!
Jeff But it's a dry heat!
Jake,
Since you are thinking about starting a business and investing your hard earned allowances, perhaps a little marketing exercise might be worth while.
Currently one Ebay, someone is trying to sell Fast Tracks turnouts for $25 bucks. A search of completed auctions shows that none of them have sold so far. Watch for awhile and see if they actually sell. One fellow is trying to sell some double cross overs hemade that are not up to his quality needs.
Whether you can build to the quality required is something else entirely. SO far, I've made six of them and I don't think any of them are good enough to sell. When it is all said and done, you are going to take about an hour to make one, be able to sell it for about 20 bucks and it will cost you 8 - 10 in parts. After paypal & ebay fees, you are going to make about 8-9 bucks an hour.
Good luck, do your homework and see where it takes you!
JOe
Do you honestly think a thought like that ever crossed Donald Trumps mind??
pilot wrote: SNIPPeco turnouts are pretty good. It will be hard to make yours as good (I don't care what others say). SNIP
Peco turnouts are pretty good. It will be hard to make yours as good (I don't care what others say).
SNIP
You know them is fightin words for some of them there handlayers!
Course I agree with you.
Joe
joe-daddy wrote: pilot wrote: SNIPPeco turnouts are pretty good. It will be hard to make yours as good (I don't care what others say). SNIP You know them is fightin words for some of them there handlayers!
Actually, as one of, "Them there handlayers!" I agree that Peco turnouts are pretty good...paperweights. A little worse than Atlas, but not much.
Course I agree with you.Joe
The great strength of handlaying is the ability to produce custom, one-off turnouts for specific situations on a layout. This is NOT the kind of product that will sell on E-bay.
Which is not to say that hand-laid turnouts won't sell. There are those who want the snob appeal of being able to say, "That's a hand-laid turnout," without the crass necessity of wrapping their own hands around a soldering tool or a pair of spiking pliers. To satisfy THAT customer base, you must be able to produce a museum-level product (for which you can then demand a museum-level price.)
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with hand-laid specialwork)
LitCo (Light Iron Turnout Company, http://www.maine2footquarterly.com/turnout.htm) already does what you are proposing in HOn3, S, and O narrow gauges. They are doing a fair business in HOn3 at present given the typical non-availability of Shinohara turnouts. Reports of quality of turnouts are all positive so far - I have no personal experience as I follow Chuck's path of laying my own with custom geometry. Shinohara seems to do a batch production of various portions of their line at one year intervals (if that).
You might want to contact LitCo about being an assembler for them, or operating in a joint venture of some type if you are going to do standard gauge. Anytime small vendors can combine marketing efforts, things seem to do better for all concerned.
Another comment: Fast Tracks jigs depend upon having consistent rail dimensions, especially in rail head and base width. While rail head and base widths are generally consistent within a given rail manufacturer's product, and is often the same for adjoining rail sizes, the same is not true for the same code rail from different manufacturers. ME code 83 rail will not work in a jig sized for Atlas rail which will not work in a jig sized for Walters/Shinohara rail. At this particular time, ME code 83 rail is extremely hard to find. But IIRC, ME code 83 and code 70 rail will work in the same Fast Tracks jigs. Bottom line is that you will have to locate an adequate supply of rail that fits your jigs, or else be late delivering, which will be the death knell of your small business.
Finally, as other posters have said, a very small business such as you are contemplating cannot afford to have any dissatisfied customers. You must deliver very high quality on time for the agreed-on price, or negative word-of-mouth will sink you very quickly. Also, if you are advertising that your turnouts are built using Fast Tracks jigs, you might want to talk to and provide a sample to Tim Warris (Fast Tracks owner) in advance so that you are both happy with the Fast Tracks name being used.
I do applaud your initiative (wish my 13 year old had the same), and wish you every success. My other comments are not to deter you, but to warn you of obstacles you must work around. I look forward to seeing your turnouts on eBay!
just my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
I like my Peco Streamline Code 83 N. American style turnouts. They do work well. They do have their weaknesses.
Their points are blade-type, and not filed rail stock...advantage Fast Tracks since their points don't wow out of gauge when a long steamer goes through them at anything above yard speed.
Their blades are tabbed into their throwbars, and are thus not very sturdy...advantage Fast Tracks since their points are soldered to their throwbars.
The Pecos have problems with shorts at the closure rail transition point into inner guard rails. Some of mine, enough that I figure it is a design fault, need the "treatment" to stop engines from shorting as they traverse that section of the turnout...advantage Fast Tracks.
The gap crossing in Fast Tracks frogs is simply superior in engineering...no comparison.
I really like the overcentre spring in Pecos...that works nicely for me in my yard, and I give them full due for that characteristic.
Fred is 100% on his observation that changes in rail stock will necessarily mean changes in the gauge of the turnouts at the rail head if one uses the same jig. This can be corrected by acquiring a bunch of stock at one time from one run, if such a thing is possible and feasible, and also by gauging and adjusting the solders as one goes before adding the flexities or wooden tie kits to make it all permanent and pretty.
Fred beat me to it. If you want to make better money stick to the odd-ball stuff. Double slip switches, Single slips. curved turnouts. Those will get the better money because people will not be able to get them easily or cheaply.
Narrow gauage is being done. I met one of the guys doing it last year. But that doesn't mean there cannot be competition.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
Hi Jake
Three things enter into my mind.
#1 Dont turn a hobby into a job. Model rail roading is fun for now why turn it into work?
#2 The tax man or some other government agent (Child Labor) would want to talk to you.
#3 What about some Liability insurance. What would happen if one of your turnouts is involved in some sort of fire or someones $2,000 brass locomotive derails and falls to the floor? Im sure some scum sucking lawyer would like to dig in your pocket.
If you had a small buisness already you could branch out and carry something like this. Or you could join a club and make turnouts for members at a price and sell at shows.
Dont let me bring you down. But I do speak from experiance.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
locoi1sa wrote: Hi Jake Three things enter into my mind.#1 Dont turn a hobby into a job. Model rail roading is fun for now why turn it into work? #2 The tax man or some other government agent (Child Labor) would want to talk to you. #3 What about some Liability insurance. What would happen if one of your turnouts is involved in some sort of fire or someones $2,000 brass locomotive derails and falls to the floor? Im sure some scum sucking lawyer would like to dig in your pocket. If you had a small buisness already you could branch out and carry something like this. Or you could join a club and make turnouts for members at a price and sell at shows. Dont let me bring you down. But I do speak from experiance. Pete
Number 1, I agree with. Number 2, not at the volume we are talking about. Number 3, I don't think is a concern.