Having trouble with a track plan

[iis612]

Thank you everyone for your input.  The hidden staging might get changed so that it is one staging area with a through main for continuous running.

I am not sure that I am willing to scrap the twin deck design, but I might use a no-lix as opposed to the helix. 

This is not the first layout that I have built, nor is it the largest.  It is the first one that I have built for my kids and me.  I do have a few sets of track plans, but do not like any of them and was hoping that a few ideas would rattle loose whatever blocks the creative passages in the old brain.

I will redraw it with the staging revision, and see if that helps create some space.

[Autobus Prime]

i6:

DON'T start big, and don't start complicated.

Start with a freestanding table no larger than 6' x 10', in the middle of the floor, so you have plenty of space to work around it. Have one large city, a branch to a small town, and a small yard. This is about the average size of model railroad that actually gets built, and has been for a long time.

An alternative is to do modules in a linear around-the-walls plan.  I prefer modular because you can work on small chunks at a time, rearrange them if you want, and scrapping and / or rebuilding is much less painful than tearing down a whole 4X8, etc.  

If you first make a couple of turnback (dogbone or reverse loop) modules, you can have continuous running from the git-go.  Plug in more modules between the turnbacks as you build out your plan.

If you use lightweight construction, you don't need (much) benchwork - just use shelf brackets.  Cheap and a great timesaver.

But it is YOUR layout, so whatever works for you...

 

 

 

nucat:

The modular idea has a lot of merit if you start with turnback curves. I didn't, and didn't have much fun running around my train and taking it 15' to the line's end, then backing home, and this caused the layout to wither on the vine. I tend to think dogbone loops would be superior to reverse loops, since a dogbone can run continuously without intervention -- I find I really need to have this option.

Around-the-wall layouts are often very good, too, but in this case the OP has an entrance in one long wall, and two things in the other that really shouldn't be blocked, so I figured the room center would be more usable - hence my recommendation. Building an island layout out of four sub-modules that could be rearranged later might be a very good way to combine both methods. That's how I'm building my current layout. One problem I have found is that more care in construction is needed, if the modules are to bolt together without flopping, than if the whole thing was one island table.

[nucat78]

i6:

DON'T start big, and don't start complicated.

Start with a freestanding table no larger than 6' x 10', in the middle of the floor, so you have plenty of space to work around it. Have one large city, a branch to a small town, and a small yard. This is about the average size of model railroad that actually gets built, and has been for a long time.

An alternative is to do modules in a linear around-the-walls plan.  I prefer modular because you can work on small chunks at a time, rearrange them if you want, and scrapping and / or rebuilding is much less painful than tearing down a whole 4X8, etc.  

If you first make a couple of turnback (dogbone or reverse loop) modules, you can have continuous running from the git-go.  Plug in more modules between the turnbacks as you build out your plan.

If you use lightweight construction, you don't need (much) benchwork - just use shelf brackets.  Cheap and a great timesaver.

But it is YOUR layout, so whatever works for you...

 

 

 

[bearman]

nof is correct about Xtrakcad, it has a rather steep learning curve.  I ended up using the Atlas software.

[pcarrell]

Thanks!

[nof]

There's another freeware called Xtrakcad thats more powerful, but harder to learn.  You can get it here: http://www.sillub.com/

You will find the newest version of Xtrkcad at http://www.xtrkcad.org/Wikka/HomePage and some extra help.

Nils-Olov

[Autobus Prime]

i6:

DON'T start big, and don't start complicated.

Start with a freestanding table no larger than 6' x 10', in the middle of the floor, so you have plenty of space to work around it. Have one large city, a branch to a small town, and a small yard. This is about the average size of model railroad that actually gets built, and has been for a long time.

This kind of layout will go up easily, and you will learn a lot and have fun while doing it. If you try to build the typical "Great Model Railroad 2009" on your first try, you will most likely come up with something you regret. I learned this lesson a while back.

If you have trouble making track plans, don't make one. Build the table with a flat plywood top, and try out varying track plans before you settle on one. Start with a double-track oval around the whole table.

One more thing - you will need to have ready access to the electrical panel, and a space 30" wide x 36" deep around the panel itself. This is an absolute minimum required by code. "Ready access" means no permanent structure blocking the way; nothing at all is best, but a drop-bridge or other very quickly removable section is probably all right. The reason for the space at the panel is to allow room for an electrician to work, and to give him a better chance of falling away and breaking contact if he should touch live wires.

Edit: I see you want a point-to-point. I suggest you don't nail yourself down to this right yet. I have had both types of layouts, and I prefer a continuous run, because it gives more freedom. You can run an oval or dogbone as a point-to-point, even an infinitely long one, but you can never run a point-to-point continuously, and sometimes you will want to do just that, whether for breaking in a new locomotive, putting on a show for visitors, or just sitting and watching the trains clatter through town.

[pcarrell]

Thats true about the staging and the helix.

A guy in my neighborhood, Mike Nicoletti, used a design of verticle staging that could also be used to raise a train from one level to another in a rather small space.  It's based on a movable display base type design.  You can check out his layout (with staging) here: http://cid.railfan.net/nicoletti.html

[spidge]

A somewhat simplified way of getting started is to draw out the parts of the line you wish to include. Go overboard a bit as you can omit some here and there. You will not be able to get everything in. If you focus on these key sections of interest and draw them out you may have more to work with. Also, a helix is no small task so like you yourself said , you may be taking too big a bite. I like the idea of through staging, therefor I would probably buid it one level with staging undrneath or in back of. All the staging does not have to be in one place, there could be other junctions to include and stage off of that.

Nice space by the way.

[pcarrell]

Have you decided on a scale?

You might try this: http://www.atlasrr.com/righttrack.htm I've found it to be quite helpful.  It's freeware, but make sure you register it or you won't unlock it's full potential.  You'll be stuck with 4x8's and half the tools.

You can use the line tool to lay out your room, then save that as a blank master and begin exploring ideas for the space.  You can also "save as" and change the file to a bitmap or jpeg file and post it for others to see and comment on.  The program is somwhat limited, but you can do a lot with it.  I created this little 4x8 N scale layout with it: (click to enlarge)

And also the one I'm building now, a 10.5' x 15' N scale multi-decker:

Staging......(click to enlarge)

Live interchange and lower sceniced deck.......

And the upper deck ending at the seaport docks........

I didn't add the scenery to those, but as you can see, you can do quite a bit with the program.

There's another freeware called Xtrakcad thats more powerful, but harder to learn.  You can get it here: http://www.sillub.com/

Also, give this a read: http://www.chipengelmann.com/trains/Beginner/BeginnersGuide01.html  It only takes about 5 minutes, but it's most helpful.

[iis612]

I can not seem to come up with a reasonable track plan.

Here is the description.

I don't have the ability to create a room template, so I will have to rely on descriptions of the space available.

This one is a huge challenge. I have a room that measures 17'9" (east - west) x 18'4" (north - south)
On the east wall there is a 32" wide window that sits 13" away from the north wall, and is 39.5" off of the floor. There is a 14" wide circuit breaker panel that is 8'1" from the north wall, and 43" from the floor.
5'4" from the north wall, and 9' from the east wall is a pillar.
The south wall is half concrete and half stud/drywall. The lower 4' 6.75" is concrete.
The entry/exit to the space is on the west end. On the northern part of the west end there is a concrete wall that extends 5' 10" south. From the south wall there is a storage cubby that extends 4' to the north.
There are no other encumbrances on the space.

I need to have access to the circuit panel, and the window needs to remain free and open for emergency egress.

Here is what I want to put into the room.
A portion of the CSX Saginaw Sub. To include Saginaw yard (which can be found on Google Earth) McGrew Yard (Also on google earth), Midland Dow Chemical (google earth), Saginaw River barge transload, a small interchange yard to the south, and various industries.
Era: Mid 1990's (but an occasional retro back to the old C&O days)
This line has 4 nightly southbound mixed freights turns originating in Saginaw and turning in Ohio with stops at the interchange, and McGrew yard.
northbound unit coal and grain, with southbound empties. 3 Saginaw yard jobs, 2 Saginaw locals, 1 Dow yard, 2 McGrew yard Jobs, 2 McGrew Locals.
Industries serviced: 2 scrap metal yards, 1 auto junkyard, Vlassic Pickle factory, Dow Chemical, General Motors complex (assembly, engine, truck and bus [which produces body and frame parts]), power plant, steel mill, and a grain elevator.
Rolling stock: tank cars, tri level auto rack, covered hoppers, coil cars, coal hoppers, reefers, flat cars, gondolas, and various box cars.

I have no problem with a multi-level layout as long as there is enough space for a helix, or any other means of changing levels.
Grades: None, with the exception of the helix.
This is a p2p layout with hidden staging at both ends.
I suspect that I may have bitten off more than I can chew, but I say go big or go home. __________________
Saginaw Sub of the CSX in the mid '90's.
Follow the progress: http://www.greatestjournal.com/users/iis612 http://img.greatestjournal.com/dot.gifhttp://img.greatestjournal.com/dot.gif