ChrisNH wrote:These are all great ideas. I especially like the idea of using a pc tie. That could help with a number of other problems. I am really glad I have had the experience if building this little layout, hopefully I will avoid these mistakes and move on to more advanced mistakes on my next layout!Chris
These are all great ideas. I especially like the idea of using a pc tie. That could help with a number of other problems.
I am really glad I have had the experience if building this little layout, hopefully I will avoid these mistakes and move on to more advanced mistakes on my next layout!
Chris
Yep. Make only new mistakes.
Cheers
Charlie Comstock
For pesky gapping problems on curves..
1) NEVER gap both rails directly opposite each other (well almost never, if the gap is for blocking purposes rather than an expansion joint you may be limited)
2) The plastic insulating rail joiners are ugly. In a photograph they are really ugly. The advice to cut a gap with a razor saw (or CAREFULLY with a moto-tool cutoff disc) and fill the hole with a small piece of styrene is much better looking.
3) If you can keep the gaps staggered by a couple of inches remove the plastic ties next to the gap and use a couple of PC ties, one on each side of the gap to firmly connect the gapped rail with the (presumably smoothly curving) ungapped rail.
4) If the railends are really stubborn and don't want to behave at all even with the PC ties drive a pair of #4 flat head woodscews into the subroad bed, one on each side of the gap and solder the rails to the tops of the wood screws to firmly anchor them. If you choose this method then be sure to place an expansion (unsoldered rail joiner) gap nearby to avoid putting lots of expansion/contraction stress on these joints (you really need the exansion gaps about every 6' or less anyway - and DON'T depend on an unsoldered rail joiner to be a good electrical connection between pieces of rail, run a separate feeder to each rail section.
Hope this is useful,
One of the things I have done to hold my curved rails in gauge is to solder the rail to a nail I have pushed into the roadbed. Push the nail in until the head is amost at the bottom of the rail, solder the two together, then use my dremel tool to cut a gap in the rail.
Just to follow up with my experiences in the time (wow! Its been 4 months!) subsequent to this.
I used the CA method to finish my layout, small as it is, and recently decided to rip up a piece I had put down to try taking care of a kink where an easement connects right to a turnout where I wanted an insulated rail joint for the frog power routing as well as to make a detection block.
I was very happy with how easy it was to pull up the track off the CA. A few seconds of sanding took care of the burrs left behind. The rail was perfectly intact. I was using Peco code 55 which is pretty meaty so I am sure that helped prevent damage. It pulled right off!
The areas where I had done the track with the latex caulk showed one problem. It was hard to fuss with the ties (I decided to fix tie spacing on some turns) because all the ties were glued down. With the CA only every 15th or so tie ended up glued except near the joints which made it easy (well, easier...) to cut the webbing and space the ties. Eventually all the track will be locked down with ballast.
Finally, I decided to do something others recommended but I finally saw illustrated in a book. I soldered the rail to the turnout, which resulted in a very smooth transition, and am cutting my gap where there is flex track tie webbing so that the rails will be held in place.. peco track is sunk deep into the webbing so it should work well. The thick tie webbing is a blessing and a curse, depending on what I am doing..
Anyway, mostly wanted to follow up on my experience pulling up the CA track, a major concern of mine. I have switched to latex for my cork roadbed. The liquid nails took too much effort to remove.
Amazing to me I started this thread the day after my son was born. How time flies, now he is playing with his plastic circus train and throwing the "cargo" around.
I agree with what has been said. I learned early that insulating joiners are not meant for curves...at least, not practically. I have resorted to using track nails in between the rails, even using a fine bit and a chuck to drill a new hole in an unperforated tie when I have to. A single nail right at each end to be aligned will often do a very good job. The problem is maintaining the rate of curvature across the gap. It is very, very difficult to do. So, use curve templates in between the rails and drill holes in the outer tie ends for nails there. Also, CA should have some efficacy, but I don't like the stuff....never had very consistent results with it. Cheap acrylic latex caulk is just as good, but use nails and weights to hold the track orientation for 50 minutes while it dries. I usually leave the nails in place as cheap insurance. If they happen to be too obvious in this one place, I will remove them and hope the glued ballast and caulking below it all work over time. The other recourse is to leave the nail shank in place, but nip its head off.
Finally, as Chuck TT would say, be absolutely meticulous about beveling the tire surface and the flange surface of each rail end, four of them. This is especially critical along curves because you don't want your trains hopping across and out of the gap at speed...or even when crawling.
ndbprr wrote:That still is not going to prevent the problem. To prevent the problem you need to spike the rail on either side of where you are going to gap it. Put one on the outside of the outside rail just on either side of the gap and another about 1/2" away from each of the first two spikes. Do the same thing on the inside of the inside rail and that should fix the problem. the spikes don't need to go through ties although they will be less visible that way.
Do you need to spike the track if you are attaching it continuously with adhesive caulk?
KL
Part of my problem is I am using 11" Radius curves on the mini-layout. My larger one is planned for a 16" min which will help.
Last night I completed it. I tried, just to see, if I could CA the rail into the plastic rail joiners and get the same effect as soldering. That didnt work at all. So, I flexed the rail into position as best I could then used CA to glue it to the cork as recommended in the thread here. This minimized the "extra" flexing that would causethe gaps to open more. I also found it a really handy way to quickly get track pushed down where it was rising up over the latex I used elsewhere.
I discovered a few problems. One was that I had not been filing my rail ends as carefully as I should have.. this was contributing to my gap problem. The other was that I needed to gap on a curve at one point. I did my best to keep it from kinking and then filed it a bit so it would provide a smooth flangeway but I may have to spike it at some point. So far, the trains have no problem running over that part.
Anyway, thanks for all the suggestions. When I do my larger layout I am going to:
1) Be more careful in my track plan in planning spots to gap rails where required. My arbitrary decision to build 4 blocks into a 3x5 layout to play with block detection didnt help.
2) Gap the frogs from the routes inside the turnout rather then at the end of the turnout to prevent potential kinking problems when you diverge into a curve. The case where i had the toughest kinking problem this is what was happening. I didnt have much of a problem when I was transitioning the straight leg to curve through an easement.
3) Glue the track after I have it in position. I really like the CA method for being able to fix the track into position then glue rather then the other way around. Someone recommended on another board I just use diluted white glue and I may see if that will work in the same fashion as it can be un-done by wetting it.
Now I just need to find a good way to fill in the gaps between rails that already exist.
It looks like the guys are giving some good advice. I also solder the joints in the curves, no insulated joiners as they cause kinks. I gapped afterward and depending on your radius you may not have to spike around them. You could try and cut a gap in the curve( if neccessary) and CA some plastic in the gap. This may hold the rails in line, but my layout is in the garage and my gaps open and close as temps and humidity change. So I leave them open.
P.S. becarefull soldering flex as heat causes the flexebillity of the rail to diminish.
John
ChrisNH wrote:The only solution I can see is to solder all the rails and gap through the rail after the rails are in place but that doesn't seem like a very good solution.
Thanks for the feedback. I think I am going to go ahead and solder the connections then gap later. I have one gap already created in my trackwork that maybe I can use some epoxy to fill in. I will likely use my wife's battery operated dremel. I found it in her "miniatures" toolbox. Its proven to be fantastic on the layout and lets me leave my corded one on the work bench.
I am just concerned about the rails getting a kink where I gap when I do cut in later but its probably not a worry. Certainly, this plan would let me move forward with finishing up the trackwork on my little test layout without having any more late night basement temper tantrums!
I may test out using CA on plastic rail joiners and see if that does work since that would alllow me to eliminate one ugly soldered rail joint but I don't think its going to work.
I once had considered using ballasting to glue the track in place but I want the ballast to flow over my scenery efforts for the ditches and subroadbed. I definitely would like to find a way to glue the track down after I pin it in place.. or find something with more initial adhesion then this latex caulking stuff. I know a lot of people are having good luck with it and it is easy to pull track up later but I am finding I really dislike the stuff. I use liquid nails for the roadbed which I like a lot but I think that may be a bit too permenant. I am counting on ballasting to help me hold down a few sections of track that are floating a bit right now.
Anyway, thanks again for the feedback. I am really looking forward to finishing up trackwork and moving on to scenery on my test layout.. something I never got to when building my own layout as a teen or working with my grandfather's as a kid.
Chris, your idea of soldering then gapping is really the best solution.
Once the track is anchored, use a razor saw to gap the rails and fill the gap with a small piece of styrene strip. Once the glue has set the styrene firmly in place, you can trim it to the rail profile, paint and weather your track and the gap will disappear.
I used Micro Engineering code 70 on my N scale layout. I didn't put in any detection blocks so I just pinned the track in place then ballasted it. Call me lazy, but I've always thought that if you have to glue the ballast, why do double the work by gluing the track first.
A good frind of mine models HO and is still using DC for track power. He has gapped his track in the manner I described and it's very difficult to find the gaps.
I glued my flex track down with CA glue (super glue) and cut gaps with a dremmel tool and filled gaps with black plastic glued in with CA glue. My experience with the plastic rail joiners has not been good either. One other tip on flex track, use fixed radius track if you get in a jam. I use it for curves coming off switches. You can bend fixed radius if you cut the ties, BTW.
Hi,
I am having trouble with peco code 55 n-scale flex track. When I solder the track in it works great. I solder it to the previous section and it lays out a nice smooth line. However, if I am using plastic rail joiners between two detection blocks I am having trouble keeping the gap of the inside rail of a curve from opening up.
What seems to happen is every time I "re-flex" the track the ends line up diffferently. So, if I shape the track, then remove it to put down some glue and clip the ends, the next time the rails won't line up the same. No matter what I do or how careful I am flexing it, it seems to want to misalign the rail heads slightly, enough to make a significant gap, at least a signficiant n-scale gap.
I don't know if I am explaining this properly, but it is really frustrating me. The only solution I can see is to solder all the rails and gap through the rail after the rails are in place but that doesn't seem like a very good solution. I have tried clamping one end to keep it from moving after I have positioned it but not only does that not work it isn't good for the track. I have tried applying CA to the rail and ties but it doesn't want to hold.
The only thing I can think of is to try applying CA to bond the track to the plastic rail joiners I am using in the hopes it will hold and cause the flex to change the length at the other end.
I have read a lot of articles about laying flex track but nothing seems to address this particular problem.