I'm getting ready to install four Miller Engineering (Light Works USA) animated signs using their onverter Module rather than batteries. The signs come with the circuit board attached to two leads from the battery holder. I am assuming that you cut off the leads at the battery box and then connect the circuit board to output leads of the converter module and then I plan to connect the four signs in series to each other. I'm going to use an old MRC 200 power pack as the A/C power source. Anybody see a problem with this?
Also, I'd appreciate any tips on how to conceal the circuit boards so the on-off switch can still be used.
I have a number of the signs installed on buildings. You can do two things. Obviously you'll going to install the circuit board either inside the buildings or under the layout. If inside the building make it so that you can lift up the building to access the circuit board and use the slide switch. The other option is to install a second switch on a control panel. Use this one to turn the sign on and off. Leave the circuit board on/off switch set to on. The new switch will then control power to the sign. Also, you'll need to set the light sequence before installing, especially if the building is in a difficult to reach area. Changing the sequence is another topic and another reason to maintain access to the circuit board.
Good luck. I'm sure you'll like the sign and its effect. They were a real attention grabber on the module during the show. What sign did you get?
jktrains
If you're going to use a separate power supply, why do you need the converter module? I took a look at their web site, and it seems to be nothing more than a voltage regulator which accepts a wide range of inputs.
The signs want 4.5 volts DC. If you've got a power pack, it should already put out 4.5 volts DC at the right setting. An old transformer will put out AC, but a simple diode bridge will fix that. Since they run on batteries, the signs are probably a fairly high impedance input, so a couple of properly-chosen resistors should get you down to the right voltage.
Another option is a wall wart. If you can't find one in your personal I'll-find-a-use-for-this-someday box, just buy theirs. It will run 3 of them for 7 bucks, and doesn't require bringing an old power pack into the picture.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
12-15' is a long distance...
Coming from the world of automotive emergency equipment installtion, we usually stay away from anything that's smaller then 14 guage for a run over 8-10 feet. Granted, we're working with things that need a higher amperage capacity, but the principal is still the same.
This space reserved for SpaceMouse's future presidential candidacy advertisements
According to their web site, these things only draw 180 milliamps. I really think 14 gauge is overkill for something like this.
If you've never seen these in person, by the way, they're really nice. I'm going to pick up the White Fuel sign this week. It was a Boston landmark when I lived across the river in Cambridge many years ago, so I'd love to have it on my layout when the old gang comes over.
MisterBeasley wrote: According to their web site, these things only draw 180 milliamps. I really think 14 gauge is overkill for something like this.If you've never seen these in person, by the way, they're really nice. I'm going to pick up the White Fuel sign this week. It was a Boston landmark when I lived across the river in Cambridge many years ago, so I'd love to have it on my layout when the old gang comes over.
The reference on the website for drawing 180 milliamps is for their billboard signs. These signs are animated in a sequence. While I don't have one of these specific signs, I would not be surprised if the larger, multi graphic signs MKT has draw a bit more current. These are usually larger signs than the one's referenced for 180 ma.
I have a number of these signs on my "O" layout...Breyers, Stan's, H&C Coffee, City Light, Plumming, Galaxy Drive-In, and a side-of-building sign with the Rexall Drug graphics.
I would advise not to "cheap-out" with the converter. The Miller one is only about $12. Most signs have 36 choices on the sequence of the lights. It's best to keep notes as you look at them all (no, maybe, yes...if you are lucky, you'll only find 2 or 3 "yes's").
Miller is a great company to deal with, especially in the rare case that something is not working as it should be. Joe
dadret wrote: Also, I'd appreciate any tips on how to conceal the circuit boards so the on-off switch can still be used.
I don't see any reason to use the on-off switch, unless you are using battery power. When I turn the main layout switch on, the signs are on. Hiding the "electronics" in a building that has interior detailing is another matter. On one roof I made a air exhaust/conditiong "shed" to contain it...on another, I have one room with closed window blinds. Joe
Even if the signs draw 1 full amp, over a 15' run of #18 wire there will be less that 0.2V drop. #14 is overkill for the low current draw. Even a DCC power district with a breaker set for 2.5 amsps, there'd be less than 1/2 volt drop with that #18 wire.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Need Miller Engineering Help. I have two lighted signs, powered by individual Miller 4.5v power units. Both signs worked last time I operated the train set -- some months ago. Today Chattanooga Choo Choo works when plugged into either socket. The Lionel Trains sign does not work when plugged into either power source. The non functional sign contacts looked corroded. I burnished them lightly with a pencil eraser. Still doesn't work. What else might I attempt? To my knowlege, neither sign has been abused, dropped or hydrated either by chlidren or adults?
UPDATE: Contacted Miller Engineering asking what additional steps I might take. Ver fast response even on the weekend, was to send the sign back to them, if defective they would replace it.
I've never tried it, but the WD-40 people make a spray contact cleaner you can buy at Home Depot. That would let you get to both the inside and outside parts of the contacts.
Hi John:
You might try contacting Miller Engineering directly to see what they suggest:
http://www.microstru.com/
Did you clean the socket that the contacts plug into as well? I just had a look at one of the sockets and I could slide a #17 X-acto chisel blade in and out without damaging the contacts. I know that one of your signs worked in both power supplies but there still might be some corrosion in the socket. Disconnect the power before attempting to clean the sockets.
Also, you might try some very fine emory paper on the male contact surfaces. I'm not sure that a pencil eraser would be aggressive enough to remove visible corrosion.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
I have a 12 VDC bus running the length of my layout for structure lighting and street lights, powered by a 4-amp supply. I use this for my Miller signs by first measuring the sign's current draw with a battery and then figuring out what resistor to use to bring the 12 volts down to 4.5. I do this individually for each sign, but as I recall I use about a 220 ohm resistor.
I have read good things about Deoxit to treat corrosion.
https://www.amazon.com/CAIG-DeOxit-Cleaning-Solution-Spray/dp/B0002BBV4G
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
I have been using a couple of the Miller signs for over a year now and am using two of their power supplys connected to a 12vdc 4amp filtered/regulated power supply in My control panel using 20 gauge wire to the converter, which is also in the control panel. That inturn has 20gauge to European style terminal barrier strips and each sign is fed by #24 wire, with no more than a 4ft. length so far with (8) signs and have had absolutely no power problems at all. I have tested all of them at the same time, although not in all buildings yet, but placed where they will be and still don't require large wire. Four of them are the large sequential signs that have 46 different patterns and the #24 gauge wire works fine.
The whole 15ft area is still a work in progress...but getting there. I have a habit of working on a lot of projects at the same time and do one when I feel like it...LOL
Take Care!
Frank
I had to raise the foundation for the Santa Fe sign because of the peaked roof on the add-on dock. All the controls/adjustment for the sign are behind the closed door and can be reached from top of roof.....the roofs are removeable on all My buildings.
this is a comment for the content of this conversation only. I called miller engineering to ask about a working magic kiss sign to finish my chicago area off. I am also pre wired for this operation i have the wires there when i get this sign just good planning ahead. Does anybody know of 1 anywhere? there operations were eye catching long before tv or the internet blowing smoke and real eye catchers and huge.
jfbDoes anybody know of 1 anywhere?
I too am in search of a Miller sign. I need a Goodyear sign as shown in jktrains reply for my Akron OH themed layout. I have the Firestone sign. When I contacted Miller Engineering they told me the Goodyear sign was discontinued because Goodyear raised the licensing fee to stratospheric dollars. Google Alerts and eBay saved searches have been active for several years without returning any results.
If anyone would like to part with a working used Goodyear sign please contact me.
Alan
Freelancing the LK&O Railroad
Jfb, Alan,
If You both are interested. You can contact John at Lights4models...He answers the phone and e-mails. Ask Him about what You are looking for and also discuss about having one of them made or get the kit and make it Yourself. He is a very knowledgeable distributor and may be able to help. I have had many phone conversations with Him....He's been very helpful to Me.
The link:
http://lights4models.com/index.php/
Good Luck,
Thanks for the tip. I just now sent an inquiry to them.
John replied. It's a no go. The search continues. May have to finally break down and just make one myself.
i know this thread is old but i made my magic kiss sign with get this lip stick and a properly sized set of lips for ho plus a light and of course the smoke and this is for your preference plus silver painted pieces of wood and the cost was around 8 bucks total at this point.