Laying down grass

[Anonymous]

Hi all,

 A friend and I are building a table that looks like a football field. We're using the grass that you guys use for your model trains, and we're running into difficulty making the grass stick to the wood. It is just a sheet of plywood. We got some spray on glue hoping that would work, it does an okay job, but it seems to leave patches where the grass doesn't stick so well. I was wonder what you guys suggest to make the grass stick to a flat surface.

 Thanks a bunch.

[UP2CSX]

Are you using the grass that comes in sheets with a paper backing? If so, Elmer's Carpenters Glue is the thing to use. I don't know how big an area you're trying to cover but you can get the stuff in quart and gallon size and spread it with a brush or a trowel. Either way, that grass mat will be stuck down good when you're through.

[Dave-the-Train]

If you're getting bald patches I'd sack the ground staff and hire a new crew!

Sounds like you're using a floq or other powder.

If you haven't done anything to prepare the surface of your ply the most likely problems would seem to be that the wood is absorbing the water out of the glue too fast in at least some places, you are attempting to work too large n area at one time or both.

I would at least try priming the ply with (probably) a (green) waterbased emulsion paint.  Choose the right green and any baldness won't show up so much anyway.

I would guess that you might be getting a problem with some of the floq not sticking because the glue isn't wet enough... which ties in with the ply drying it to fast... hmm, I think you said you were using a spray glue... can't do much about that... For the spreadable glues try looking at the threads on ballast laying and note the comments on wetting the track first with "wet" water (water with either detergent or alcohol added in tiny proportion to break the surface tension).

You might find that just dampening the ply helps... or makes matters worse... it will almost certainly make the setting time longer.

Or just work small areas...

Hope this helps.

Please let us know what your best results are.

PS if nothing works, paint the bald bits brown and blame it on awful weather

PPS It just occurs to me... if you paint the ply you might think about marking out the white lines (is this real football or the Ameircan kind?) these should not only show through the "grass" to give you a good guide for painting the grass but give depth to the finished effect. 

Then again, if you are using a floq, you might be able to get a white floq powder (for snow scenes).  If you use something like the Tamiya masking tape (for striping model race cars) you could mark out the lines in tape before you spread/sprinkle the glue and green grass... then peel up the tape and carefully go round with the white stuff to mark the lines...

This should be fun... like detailing track ballast...

[MisterBeasley]

There are a lot of different techniques.  This works for me, but I work with pink foam as a base:

Paint the surface.  For a football field, it will be mostly green.  I would add some light brown streaks up the middle (end zone to end zone) where most of the play would be, wearing down the grass.  (Look at a real natural-turf field.  A high-school field will do to get the pattern.  Take a picture for reference, while you're there.  A lot of us use pictures of the real thing when building our models.)

Once the paint is dry, mix up a bunch of "scenic cement."  This is Elmers and water.  I use about 1/3 Elmers to 2/3 water.  I have an old Elmers bottle, long since emptied, that I use for this.  I've got a gallon jug of hardware-store-brand white glue, which is generic Elmers.  Shake well to get it mixed up.

Squirt some of this glue on the surface.  Spread it evenly with an old paintbrush.  I try to only to about a square foot at a time.  I use about a half-inch brush, but my work is more detailed.  I'd suggest a 1-inch brush for what you're doing.  Now, while the glue is still wet, sprinkle on the grass.  I like Woodland Scenics grass (green turf) in the big 1-quart shaker bottle for this.  Again, I do my work in small areas, so I apply it with my finger tips, but for a large space you can use the shaker bottle.  Put the green grass where you've painted it green, and use something like "brown fine turf" where it's brown.  Don't worry about "staying inside the lines" on the paint colors.  The uneven edges will look more natural anyway.  You can sprinke multiple turf types in the same area to get a mix of shades.

Next, let it dry.  You might want to gently take a vacuum cleaner (no brush, just pass the hose over the top) to the field the next day.  This should pick up the loose stuff, but leave most of the grass firmly glued in place.

Finally, get a model of Bill Belichick with a video camera, and you'll be done!

[orsonroy]

I'm assuming that your comment, "Looks like a football field" is a bad thing, and that you want it to look more like an open, overgrown field. To make bare plywood look like something more than a ping-pong table, you need to add both texture and scenery.

For texture, the simplest thing to do is to slap down some drywall compound. This generally goes against my general advice of adding foam on top of plywood and carving it to a desired shape, but it sounds like the layout is already up and running, and carving the edges of foam doen to meet the plywood base layer evenly is VERY hard to do effectively. Adding the joint compound isn't hard, and you shouldn't think about the process to much while ou're doing it. Thinking too much will likely result in terrain that's too even and unnatural looking. Just slap down irregular patches of the stuff where you don't want flatness, shape them into naturally curving mini hills, and let it all dry. Remember to vary the size, shape, and slope of the blobs of compound, so the effect looks better than an assortment of upside down grapefruit halves.

Adding the scenery takes a little more effort, and will stretch out over a period of days. Of course, most of that time will be the material drying, since adding the material really doesn't take a whole lot of time. Here's how I add base scenery:

1. Paint the surface. This really isn't a difficult step. Use a "dirt-ish" colored paint and slap it down in a HEAVY layer onto the layout. The paint I'm using right now for scenery is a $1 "oops" color that I found at Home Depot. It's a "tannish" color which works well enough for most dirt. Don't obsess over the color too much, since if you do the rest of the scenery properly you won't see any of it.
2. While the paint is still wet, add the first layer of scenery "grass". There are all sorts of ways to add grass, from ground foam to fake fur to electrostatic applicators. This technique is for ground foam, the standby for the hobby. (you can experiment with the more involved techniques later). I add ground foam by filling a ground foam jar's lid up with turf and sifting it onto the paint, trying for complete coverage. Don't worry about EVEN coverage, as subsequent steps will take care of it. The point here is to cover up the paint with ground foam. As for WHAT foam to use, always start off with the finely ground stuff. Colors are subjective, but don't use a solid color: it's WAY too unnatural looking. Woodland Scenics sells a "mixed turf" color whic is a good start: I generally use a large bag or jar of it and add a small bag of dark green turf to "green it up" a little.
3. Once the paint dries add the SECOND base layer, which adds some texture to the base. You'll need rubbing alcohol, a diluted white glue mix, two spray bottles, and some fine and medium turf to represent weeds. The glue mix should be around 2/5 white glue, 2/5 water, and 1/5 alcohol (mix well). Add it into one spray bottle, and straight rubbing alcohol into a second. Your "weeds" should be darker than your base turf layer. Sprinkle the weeds around irregularly. Next, working in areas of a couple of square feet at a time, spray in a light coat of alcohol. This will break up the surface tension of the turf, allowing the glue to absorb evenly and without balling up. Next, SATURATE the turf with the glue mix. Literally, you should start to see white all around the turf before you stop spraying. Once the glue's down, add more turf and weeds as desired (and add more glue if necessary).
4. Once the glue's dry, start adding bushes. Use straight white glue added to the turf, and start plunking down clump foliage, tall grasses, small trees, and anything else you can find that realistically looks like assorted plants. Take a slow walk through a craft store's dried plant material section to look for lots of cheap & effective materials.
5. Once the bushes are down add trees as desired. If you want, also add things like flowers and "specialty plants" like ferns, grapevines and cattails (look up the Busch line of superdetailed plant models).

Once done, you should have an area that's got a lot of texture, color and character.

[MisterBeasley]

I'm assuming that your comment, "Looks like a football field" is a bad thing,

Funny, I took it the other way.  So, are you trying to make a football field, or not?  And is it American football, Canadian football, Australian football or maybe even soccer?

Please post pictures of the cheerleaders when you're done, OK?

[Dave-the-Train]

A very interesting take on the OP Orsonroy.  I like it   Even if it isn't what was being asked about it answers some stuff for me!

Just one thing... shouldn't weeds be lighter than the surrounding grass?

[Dave-the-Train]

I'm assuming that your comment, "Looks like a football field" is a bad thing,

Funny, I took it the other way.  So, are you trying to make a football field, or not?  And is it American football, Canadian football, Australian football or maybe even soccer?

Please post pictures of the cheerleaders when you're done, OK?

Hey!  You missed out Gaelic Football!  Worse you missed out the two real games - League and Union... I surely don't have to mention the significant word "Rugby"?

Is this field supposed to be before or after the match?  If your players have the correct shaped ball it could easily end up more like a ploughed field.

Just had a truly awful thought... you're not looking for an under-heated Astroturf field are you?

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all the help guys.

We are going for the American football field(NCAA College to be exact) look. We want a table that is original for when we go tailgating at the football games.

We have used primer on the plywood as well as a coat of green paint. I'm thinking we're just rushing. Thanks again for all the suggestions.

[MisterBeasley]

  I'm thinking we're just rushing.

For a balanced offense, you've got to mix in a few passes with all that rushing.  Makes the game more exciting, too.

[loathar]

Brush the wood with some watered down Elmers glue. About 50/50. Apply your grass. Let dry. Then water down some more Elmers to be put in a spray bottle. About 30% glue, 60% water and 10% rubbing alcohol.(alcohol helps break the surface tension.) Spray your grass generously and let dry. (probably a day or two) This will seal it really good so you won't damage it moving it around.

[Dave-the-Train]

  I'm thinking we're just rushing.

For a balanced offense, you've got to mix in a few passes with all that rushing.  Makes the game more exciting, too.