Ballasting for the first time

[Dave-the-Train]

I remember when I was a kid and passing by the railroad tracks the ballast always looked very neat from a distance.  I do not go by tracks that often anymore so I can keep that memory in my head.  There will be a lot of things I change when I build the next layout, but I will definitely enjoy trying to finish this one, even though a lot of it will look nice instead of real

That's fine   I've no argument at all with that.

I think that maybe my last post lent too heavily (more than I intended) toward conformity to realism.  That said the image you have in your mind (of what there was/what you want) is good and where you want to end up...

I think that you can achieve either the highly detailed "messy" or the highly detailed "ist class" without it being so painful.

The detail sits on top.  You still have to work carefully getting down the underlying material but I think that this can be done more freely before going back over to trim the sharp profile (in your case).  I would still tend to look to add some colour vaiation between roads of different use to add visual appeal and tell the story.  This could be sprayed on after the track is pretty much complete.

[gcri]

I remember when I was a kid and passing by the railroad tracks the ballast always looked very neat from a distance.  I do not go by tracks that often anymore so I can keep that memory in my head.  There will be a lot of things I change when I build the next layout, but I will definitely enjoy trying to finish this one, even though a lot of it will look nice instead of real

[Dave-the-Train]

Well I must say ballasting is punishment.  This is the first layout I have ever got far enough along to ballast and I must say it is painful especially since it is N scale.  I have gotten most of my yard finished and I wanted to get some opinions for my first go round.  Feel free to be honest it will not hurt my feelings.

 

 

I think tht you will hate me for this...

It is very neat and tidy.

Does it look anything at all like the real thing?

Not that you have to want it to look like the real thing.

[Dave-the-Train]

I can't lay claim to having done a whole lot of ballasting (more's the pity - I'd have a "finished" layout if I could.  However...

I have spent an accumulated total of months walking about on the real stuffand the huge difference I usually note between the real stuff and models is the complexity of the first and the uniformity of the second.

Isn't one of the boring things about doing model ballast getting it all up to the "same standard"?

My point is that the real thing is rarely all one standard.

As/when/if ever I get that far again I think that I will mix up a number of shades of whoever's H0 ballast is good by then (about 3009?) and make several thin runs to build up the formation as a general profile. 

When you think about it there is a large % of the ballast that isn't really seen but does go to the overall appearance.  IIRC I recently read of someone filling most of the space normally occupied by ballast with plaster and then just decorating on top.  I wouldn't want to do this but it makes the point.

Maybe a big thing isn't the actual time taken ballasting but the perceived time?

If I make each inch of ballast correct top to bottom as I go I'm sure that it will feel like a whole lot more concentration and effort.  BUT I don't need to do that.

Try to put my thoughts into order...

(Thinking back this is roughly what I started for an 0 gauge layout for my Father).

1. Create a huge piece of paper (A2 or even A1 if it's a big layout) with a schematic of the track and room to make notes. You're going to use this to colour in bits and do anything else that helps build the picture you want. This not only helps but means that you can recall what you ended up deciding to do.  This is pretty much like planning a garden.  It may seem like an extra task but it really can help you settle what you want in your mind.  [I would like to put in a plea here for thinking about drains/drainage when working out ballasting.  The most missed feature of track in models is drainage provision - or lack of it (puddles) - ].
2. Keep one copy as a master so that you can junk copies you decide you don't like or that get too messy.
3. I'm not sure but it might be useful to use a first copy to mark on where all the electrical bonds and point motors etc go?  If you are going to have a number scheme why not use this and do it now?  (Or -working the other way round - if you have a schematic for the wiring and it will do the job, why not use that (maybe enlarged) for the ballast planning)?
4. ONE BIG THING TO BEAR IN MIND... you don't have to get all these things done at once or before you start.  PLUS you can change things as you develop the layout... you just want them to change AND blend in rather than have to go back and amend.  This is where keeping copies on file as you go and refering back to the first over-all view helps...
5. SO... The first thing to do with the first copy is take the whole layout and get an overview.  What the track areas are, What the adjacent (and any other bits impacting the track) areas are (including bridges over and under and tunnels). 
6. Take one copy of the diagram and just colour in the track areas to show what they will be doing... Main tracks, yards, specific spurs that may have a different appearance.  Make this one a master and preserve it as a base level.
7. You can do the same for areas between/alongside the tracks and/or raised/lowered areas... whatever suites you.  If there's a sub area or group of sub areas that you want to get into your head make them a diagram copy or copies.
8. You can do more copies either of the whole or of selected bits to plan out / note detail elements such as where locos stand regularly and stain the track, walkways along or across, porr/weedy/wet ballast, new ballast... all the details you might think of to elaborate your basic design.
9. You want 7 ready with 6 when you look at ballasting because you want to have a guide to where the track being in a cut may change the appearance of the ballast.
10. Okay, this makes me think about the issue of when to ballast...
11. Most posts in the forum will say ballast last - after the fill and the scenery are done.  That means we are "almost finished" and just waiting on getting the ballast in... That seems a bit like the last bit of decorating a room... the bit with most temptation / pressure to rush and "Get it done".  So it's bound to be a pain.
12. Leaving all of the ballasting until last also means that we both look at unballasted track forever and that when doing it we have to not mess up everything else.
13. SO I would suggest doing a first skim of ballasting almost as soon as the first track gets fixed.  This probably wants to go right out to the final full/finished ballast profile width.  If nothing else it will give you practice at ballasting!    I wants to be a generic (probably not too uniform) colour.
14. This will make the whole thing look better while you work on and give you a clear marker for surrounding scenery.
15. As you develop things you might find that some scenery spills onto / encroaches on the first ballast.  You can decide as you go whether this is what you want or not.  As it's not the final finished/perfect ballast it won't matter too much if you have to change or repair it.  It's also a whole lot easier for ballast to get sceniced over than to push it under things... like overhanging grass/shrubs.
16. It's up to you how much detail you want to build up in the ballast and when.
17. I think that ballast/track should be as detailed as any weathered loco or car.  That may seem intimidating but, when you think about it, the track is "on scene" all the time while any loco or car just rolls through.

I'm not going to go on about all the things you can do to detail ballast/track here.  I've done that enough in previous posts.  The important thing is to have some idea what detail(s) you are going to want later when you start.  Then build up the picture as and when it suites you.

Just a comment on the original post and answers... whenever making any fill between tracks I like to include some sort of guideline / generic colour to the plaster/goo.  that way any knocks or cracks don't show up a horrible/clear white.

PS Of course all this can be applied to making plans for how you will weather/detail the track - ties and rails -  before you even start to ballast

[selector]

Ballasting is not my favourite pastime, but it is worth doing well for the satisfaction and looks later.  As the old saying goes, "After the battle, the reward."

By all means, do the track prettying after everything else is done...except perhaps for adding some trees and brush, bushes, poles, and actually placing your buildings in pre-selected/pre-determined spaces.  But the track ballasting and weathering are the last things done ideally.

As at least two others have urged you to do, get the yard surface built up with "dirt" and stuff and then do minimal ballasting...many older yards don't even look ballasted, at least not compared to the open mains.  The ties are virtually embedded in the same dirt as we would walk on near the trains, since they don't quite stand out like they do in properly and cleanly ballasted main lines.

One final suggestion...pick a two foot section at a time and ballast it carefully.  Then go do something else.  Come back and add to it, or for a nice change, begin to weather the rails, paint some of the ties shades of brown and grey here and there for a credible natural effect.  Add a light mixture of plaster of paris and masonary dyes or tempera powder (brown and black should do).  Brush some of it between the rails and just outside them, and then lightly spritz it with water/isopropyl alcohol mix to set it.  Looks marvey!

[gcri]

I put just enough ballast for the top of the trackbed so when I tap the rails ballast does not go everywhere.  I then soak it really good with the glue mixture and try to get all the loose pieces off the tops of the ties and rails.  Then while it is still wet I pour extra ballast on the shoulder and put enough glue mixture in it so that it is like mushy oatmeal.  I then sculpt it to meet up with the height of the rest of the ballast.  If it starts sticking to my tools I give it a little more glue.  Once it is like I want it I go to the other side.  By doing it this way I have minimal ballast I have to clean up later.  This layout might not get 100% finished, so I might not have to worry about painting the ties.  I have found a 4x8 layout is good for learning, but it is not very practical.  It looks like we will be building a new house in the next year or two and I will get a room to build a layout (much to the dismay of my wife) instead of the basement.  But I will continue to work on this one until that time comes.

[loathar]

Looks good so far. I would agree that you should do your ballast last.
Ballasting=Model Railroad purgatory!

Doesn't that tapping and vibrating cause the ballast to slide off the roadbed shoulder?

P.S.-It's a good ides to paint your track before you do the ballast.

[dknelson]

I used to just detest ballasting - and then I discovered a little trick that helps me sail right along ....

The part I found to be the most hair-pulling was getting all the ballast off the ties and the inside edge of the rail. Now, when I pour down a "bead" of ballast, I just use a soft wide brush to get it evenly spread then HIT IT WITH A HAMMER !!!!

No - I don't beat it out of frustration, but rather go along and lightly tap the railheads. The vibration magically vibrates the loose ballast off the ties and rail sides and levels out everything perfect !!!

Finally - I can say I don't mind ballasting .... I still don't love doing it, but I don't hate it any more either.

By the way - your ballast work looks good !!!

Mark. 

I use a palm sander for the same effect -- the vibrations make the ballast settle down nicely between the ties.

One technique I use -- for HO but I have tried in on N for purposes of giving a clinic -- is to lay track using clear adhesive caulk and then while the caulk is still "wet" I pour my ballast on it and tamp it down with an old piece of cork roadbed.  Once the caulk has dried i use a brush to brush away the loose ballast which I collect on a sheet of paper and reuse.  As a rule more ballast needs to be added but you have a decent base in place.

Dave Nelson

[gcri]

I am actually going to put an access road between the middle tracks.  It was the reason I made the gap a little larger in the middle.  I will probably save the painting for later for the finishing work.  I actually use a screwdriver to tap the rails, but yes that does work very well.  Thank you for the kind words, I did a few test runs on some spare track trying various methods and I liked the way this came out.  The track is on WS trackbed and I would say building up the sides and making it look right is the hardest part.

[joe-daddy]

Interesting; I wonder how many layouts ever get ballasted?   I'll guess less than 50% ever get there.

 

Joe 

[Mark R.]

I used to just detest ballasting - and then I discovered a little trick that helps me sail right along ....

The part I found to be the most hair-pulling was getting all the ballast off the ties and the inside edge of the rail. Now, when I pour down a "bead" of ballast, I just use a soft wide brush to get it evenly spread then HIT IT WITH A HAMMER !!!!

No - I don't beat it out of frustration, but rather go along and lightly tap the railheads. The vibration magically vibrates the loose ballast off the ties and rail sides and levels out everything perfect !!!

Finally - I can say I don't mind ballasting .... I still don't love doing it, but I don't hate it any more either.

By the way - your ballast work looks good !!!

Mark. 

[Free-mo Tim]

Hello,

     First, I'd like to compliment you on the neatness of your work! You'll do just fine with future ballasting.

     The other's comments about covering the "empty spaces" between the rails and ballast height in yards are worth studying. I would add that you might consider painting your ties and rails, too. Some do that before ballasting; others afterwards. Either way, it will add to the realism of your trackwork. 

     Another thought would be to model a dirt access road using the wider space in the middle of the 2 pairs of tracks. Your layout, your decision.

      Lastly, there is no part of modeling that MUST remain permanent. As your skills improve, you will (likely) look at your earlier projects and "upgrade" them. That is part of growing in this hobby. It IS supposed to be fun!

Regards from Ohio,

Tim 

[gcri]

I just figured ballasting was just part of the scenery phase, but I guess it would make sense to wait until the last.  Yes I really, really hate ballasting.  I will hold off on until some grass and streets go down (what a shame, it was sooo fun).  I will also build up the yard area and flatten it out some.  Thank you for the suggestions.  I am entering into phases I have never seen before so any input is greatly appreciated. 

[ARTHILL]

Looks good so far. What you put between the tracks will make a big difference. I would fill in a bit in the yard areas, usually it is more flat in the yards.

[cowman]

Ballasting looks fine to me.  Only thing is I think I would have waited untill I had the basic ground cover down and most of the general scenicing done before ballasting.  Most posts I have read do ballasting late in the scenery work, as like in real life the ballast goes on top of most everything else.

By the sound of other posts I think you will find you have a lot of company in that ballasting isn't your favorite part of model railroading.  My project is coming along slowly and I may join you when I get to that point.

Have fun,

[gcri]

Well I must say ballasting is punishment.  This is the first layout I have ever got far enough along to ballast and I must say it is painful especially since it is N scale.  I have gotten most of my yard finished and I wanted to get some opinions for my first go round.  Feel free to be honest it will not hurt my feelings.