Hey all. I was wondering if Home Depot's pink insulation emits toxic fumes when cut with an object such as a hot knife. Because in when creating things like mountains tall mountains it is probably easier to put the foam in vertical rows (as opposed to cake-layer style for typical lower features) & cut with a hot knife to get a basic shape then attack the foam with various metal & sharp object for detail. And I (and my parents FTM) are concerned about fumes that could possibly be toxic. The room I'll be doing it in is relatively small, but has ventilation to a much larger portion of the basement. (I don't know about the exact dimensions, but it is probably 40'x20' as a whole.) So should I be concerned? I know I should open up a couple windows for ventilation. But other than that should I be fine? Thanks in advance!
--Jacob "The cautious modeller..."
Yes, the fumes are toxic. How toxic depends on ventilation, the amount of cutting you do in a given span of time, and how much you breath in of the resultant fumes. If you mount a fan in such a way that it blows room air directly out a nearby window, and you have air coming into the room from another way, I think you will be fine.
It is one of the reasons I elected to merely cut my foam and then to shape it with a wire brush. It's so much messier, but that is what garbage bags, dust bins, and Shop Vacs are for.
If you have some adequate ventilation, you will be just fine. I also build and fly RC airplanes, and have my own foam wing cutter, and keep a window open and a fan running. No problem!
Here's a link to a rather interesting foam cutter that you can make almost anything from!
I have it with most of the accesories
www.tekoa.com
TheK4Kid
Actually it's only toxic if heated above about 600 degrees F. The heat of a hot wire or knife does not approach this level. You do need ventilation though as the largest byproduct is CO2. Sorry about the budget.
The MSDS is most concerned with the dust from cutting.
Click here to see, read and understand the MSDS at owens corning. You need acrobat reader.
Karl
The mind is like a parachute. It works better when it's open. www.stremy.net
larak is right, fumes really aren't much of a problem. The foam cutter I described, you can build almost anything with it and its accesories.Buildings, tanks, etc, you can cut all kinds of shapes, etc with it.Been considering an extension for WS riser kit ( foam I have).
I use the power supply shown.
Ed
Where possible I try to do my hot foam knife cutting outside. Obviously this is not always practical. It is hard to do precision cutting when you are shivering from the cold or swatting at mosquitoes.
If you are worried about fumes (and while perhaps not literally toxic I am sure the fumes aren't healthy like eating an apple is), just be aware that the standard white face mask you can buy at the drug store is not useful to prevent harm from solvents and chemicals A more serious respirator with cannisters such as they sell at Sears (try the paint department) might make you feel more safe. Many advise using such masks when spray painting even at a vented booth. But be aware that the cannisters lose strength quickly -- some people advise removing them after using the mask and keeping them in a ziplock bag.
Dave Nelson
Awhile back, a train buddy of mine wanted to make a "revetment" for his layout, 12 inches wide at the bottom, wide enough at the top to run two mainlines side by side, and it was 8 feet long, by 8 inches high.We cut several pieces from 2 inch pink foam, with no problem, and very little fumes, using one of my foam cutting bows and templates we made light aircraft plywood.
Then we cut two tunnels through them also.Neither of us had any problems or any ill effects.I've been cutting rdaio control sailplane and large scale radio control model airplane wings for almost 20 years and have never had any ill effects, and I do it in my basement.
My wing sections are usually 4 feet long by 10 to 12 inches wide or wider, and that's a lot of foam being cut, with no problems.
I have also cut several of my HO layout buildings from foam, with no problems. So really you really don't have any thing to worry about as far as fumes, etc.
I planed to use pink or blue foam for benchwork in a bedroom. I checked the Owens-Corning's site Larak mentionned up-here. They say the dust particules can be harmfull if the foam is cut or drilled. Now, I wonder about having this stuff permanently in a room where someone will sleep everyday...Not to mentionned all the stuff we put on the layout as scennery ( dirt, ground foam, paint, plastics and glues,solvents...).
Chris
What a useful discussion, guys!
Larak, you are undoubtedly correct about the fumes only being a hazard at actual burning temps, which I don't believe the hot knife approaches. Point taken. I would be concerned about the volatiles or anything that might be yielded by the melting it takes to actually break the substance apart and having them lodge in my alveoli. They may not be toxic per se, but they will occlude the surfaces where oxygenation of blood is meant to occur...at least, that's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
Same for the dust. Dust isn't necessarily perceptible, but that doesn't mean it isn't there. Tiny bits of the foam, a stable and robust compound, may also accumulate in the alveoli, and my guess is that they are going to be there long after my corpse begins to get soupy inside.
I am not an expert in these things, but my generalized learning suggests that our indoor environments are problematic enough without introducing more aerosols, volatiles, micro-particles, and other forms of foreign materials that our bodies must content with.
I would say, in closing, that neither coal dust nor sawdust are toxic (I think?), but they sure do a number on our lungs. In the case of foam, I have no idea what our immune systems might do to the little bits of whatever is left of the stuff when we cut it that gets into our lungs. I think I'll sleep better at night not knowing, but taking what I feel are sensible precautions.
Jake1210 wrote: Hey all. I was wondering if Home Depot's pink insulation emits toxic fumes when cut with an object such as a hot knife. Because in when creating things like mountains tall mountains it is probably easier to put the foam in vertical rows (as opposed to cake-layer style for typical lower features) & cut with a hot knife to get a basic shape then attack the foam with various metal & sharp object for detail. And I (and my parents FTM) are concerned about fumes that could possibly be toxic. The room I'll be doing it in is relatively small, but has ventilation to a much larger portion of the basement. (I don't know about the exact dimensions, but it is probably 40'x20' as a whole.) So should I be concerned? I know I should open up a couple windows for ventilation. But other than that should I be fine? Thanks in advance! --Jacob "The cautious modeller..."
Fwiw, I've been cutting foam for awhile now with both a hot wire and blade cutter. Yes, fumes (small amount) are made, but unless you stick your face *directly* into them, they're not a problem.
On the topic of dust. The danger is in the ones that are to small to see. The large pieces won't get anywhere and just be coughed up. The microscopic ones are causing the issues.
That said, I do not think that there will be a problem. Ventilate while and after you done some cutting for you healths sake and then just forget about it. I would not worry about it being in a sleeping room. Even things like asbestos are safe until you brake them up and work with them. Then is the time they dangerous.
Magnus