Warning, long read ahead, the impatient may want to turn back now.
I am still in the planning stage of my layout. And I have just gotten a springboard from someone on another forum, (thanks Guilford Guy, if you are here anyway) And I have been debating this for a while. Should I put a staging yard on the layout or under? Using the Woodland scenics Mod-U-Rail system, it would be relatively easy (with some crafty-ness & modification of course.) to attach a spur going to an under-layout staging yard. Now, since woodland scenics modules are 18"x36" & use 1 1/4x1 1/4 beams for legs, that would mean I can get a 15"x16" area for staging per module. And this would mean I can get in 6 tracks on 2" spacing with adequate clearance from the beams. Now, I have quite a bit of space for a staging yard, 16' to be exact. So based on #6 switches which are 10" long and I would need a total of 51" of space using a split ladder on both ends, leaving my shortest siding at around 11.5 feet or so, and my longest at about 12.5 feet or so. Now, I plan on running long coal trains & Short passengers as my layout is freelanced in the Allegheny region with the C&O and N&W interacting with my own company, Allegheny Central & Southern. I also will not have many operators, maybe 3 at extremely improbable max, including me, and I also have an old computer for automatic control for those lonely days. So again back to the question, should 6 Tracks be enough? Sorry about the long read.
Like Jim said, a helix would be more practical to get your trains up to the main level instead of a straight 4% grade (which your long 12' trains may not be able to cover). Try for a 2-2.5% grade helix. If you build it 24" radius or larger with 4" clearance between each level then you can change levels in 16 square feet in a 1.5 turn helix, which would point trains the opposite way along the layout as they were pointed to in staging. You could even build the helix around the pipe in your room to use otherwise wasted space. I have never built a helix, but it does not seem as difficult as everyone seems to say. You will, however, not want to do it without help from someone who has experience woodworking. As for the clearance, as long as you have access from the side of the staging yard (both sides makes it much easier) you may be able to squeeze your hands over. If you do opt for the Helix however, you can add another turn (make it 2.5 turns instead) and that would add another 4" to the under table clearance for your staging yard, which should allow you to fit your hand through and reach the cars in the far track. Theoretically, with a Helix, you can add as many turns as you want in the same area to gain more (or less) elevation. I would therefore suggest at least 12" of clearance between the two decks so that way you can also see the cars at the far track and have better access to them. It would require at least a 3.5 turn helix, which may be more difficult to build than a single turn helix. Take a closer look at the helix for staging. Perhaps you can find a way to incorporate it into your plan to your specifications. You may find you can add more staging than you think.
Ghonz
- Matt
Andy Sperandeo MODEL RAILROADER Magazine
ndbprr wrote:Because of your age I would say it is enough. Come again? Within the next ten years you will be leaving home and tearing it up. Wth the advent of girls, high school and possibly college in your life you will probably decrease your railroad time. the more you build the more you have to take down. Keep it realtively simple for now and learn from what works and what doesn't, "for the day...".
I have to agree here. Keep your plans doable in 5 years, beyond 5 years is difficult to forecast even for entrenched adults. I personally would start off with just 2 tracks of staging, adding more as time and money permit. Keeping the commitment small to an idea that is going to have some engineering challenges - access, grades, turnout maintenance, and the like - will mean less reluctance to change when an idea doesn't pan out as well as you would like. For instance, if you build the full six track staging monster complete with 4% approaches and 6" vertical clearance, and find out afterwards that crawling under to rerail a train on the middle track is just too painful, or that the 4% grade is too steep for your trains, you will likely just not use it rather than fix it to work better. OTOH, if you build just 1-2 tracks of staging to test your ideas, you will be a lot more willing to modify the staging plans, and try again.
Especially for younger model railroaders, I cannot recommend a phased approach to layout building enough.
just my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
Here's a thought from someone who discovered that staging would have to be provided for, not 6, but 26 trains!
Instead of eating up a bunch of space with turnouts, build your staging on a traverser (kind of a multi-track transfer table.) See Spacemouse's threads on his Indiana, PA, layout. That also eliminates the, "How do I reach the derailed car on the far track?" problem - just pull the traverser all the way out and daylight the derailment site. As an added bonus, a fully-extended traverser will give you "fiddle yard" capability to change out cars in the staged trains.
For those short trains, you could put a crossover between two tracks at the half-length point and store four shorties in the space needed for two long coal units.
By using the kind of hardware designed for file cabinet drawers, it would be possible to put ten tracks on a traverser that will fit on a 24" wide base with room to spare. Just remember that the rear of that base will have to be ballasted with concrete blocks or something eqivalent, so it won't tip over when the traverser is all the way out.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
tomikawaTT wrote: Here's a thought from someone who discovered that staging would have to be provided for, not 6, but 26 trains!Instead of eating up a bunch of space with turnouts, build your staging on a traverser (kind of a multi-track transfer table.) See Spacemouse's threads on his Indiana, PA, layout. That also eliminates the, "How do I reach the derailed car on the far track?" problem - just pull the traverser all the way out and daylight the derailment site. As an added bonus, a fully-extended traverser will give you "fiddle yard" capability to change out cars in the staged trains.For those short trains, you could put a crossover between two tracks at the half-length point and store four shorties in the space needed for two long coal units.By using the kind of hardware designed for file cabinet drawers, it would be possible to put ten tracks on a traverser that will fit on a 24" wide base with room to spare. Just remember that the rear of that base will have to be ballasted with concrete blocks or something eqivalent, so it won't tip over when the traverser is all the way out.Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
While I would love to do that, that is not possible to do so. It has to do with the design of the Woodland Scenics Mod-U-Rail stands. And I have come to my conclusion as to what to do. I will use a helix to change elevation. A bit of thinking told me that I could do a "C" shaped layout, and at both ends is a mountain into which a tunnel is built, just before the tunnel, there is a turnout one side could go up to a new part of the layout, and the other could go down to staging. Or if I want that much more track, I can add a peninsula or connect the two loops at each side of the "C" for loop to loop continuous, and around the room continuous. I want to cram as much track into my 9x16 room is practically possible. And as for the helix, How do I calculate grades? I know I need the circumference of my track, which in this case, my planning to use 28" radius: 28*2=56 56*3.14=175.84 or using a more accurate estimation of Pi: 3.14159 56*3.14159=175.92904 now rounding to the nearest whole digit 176" 176/12=14.66666667 And, due to my lack of knowledge of the rise over run formula, I'm stranded in the middle of the ocean, without a paddle for now. Any help would be appreciated!
Consider your trains to be actors with the visible part of the pike as being the stage.
Then you can reduce your need for staging by;
Having an actor performing multiple roles during a session. The morning passenger train normally will look about the same as the evening train.
Connect the staging to the stage in such a way that an actor can enter from either direction. A west bound passenger train will usually look about the same as the east bound.
Have fun
Sounds good. Just remember that the vertical clearance has to cover the thickness of the plywood (or other sub roadbed material) and the roadbed and still have enough room for your tallest equipment, feeder wires, etc. The only reason most of us say 4" minimum clearance ANYWHERE is because it can be very difficult to keep all of the other materials within the space, plus leave roughly 3" for the locomotives and cars. I would suggest you try it out whit some scrap material before you commit to building a large, three turn helix. Otherwise, sounds great... and let's put it this way. You've gotten much farther than I have (committing to a track plan is very difficult for me ) and I am 15
Jake,
Pretty darned good plan (and math) for a 13 year old. I think I was lucky to figure out how to put in and wire a turnout when I was your age. Just check that vertical clearance to make sure you really have the dimensions right. There's nothing worse than trying to reach into a confined space that's just a little too small and knocking off that cool flashing amber beacon you just spent two hours putting on your engine. I'd love to see some pictures as you progress along with this.