Fulton,
Since I'm in the same situation as you, I'll be equally interested in the responses you get. What I can tell you is that the FS turnouts come out VERY nice. The Central Valley turnouts have all the nice detailing included in the tie sections.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I have been building my own hand-laid specialwork for a good many years, and my immediate answer is - neither of the above! My method, which has been used to assemble specific frog number turnouts, is equally applicable to three way switches on curves (easy, tighter and minimum radius from one point) slip switches and crossovers at angles not found in the catalogs.
Working on a drafting surface of 1.5 inch thick foam, I start with a piece of cardstock bigger than the expected footprint of the specialwork on which I draw the centerlines of the curves and/or tangents that will be involved. Then I connect the various routes with a length of Atlas code 100 flex track held to the cardstock with temporarily installed track nails. Using a sharp pencil I mark the tie lines (both sides) of the flex. Where the lines overlap, I will need switch ties of appropriate lengths. Headblock ties (and, eventually, the sharp ends of points) go where the sketched tie lines start to diverge.
After trimming the card stock to the footprint of the specialwork (three inches beyond the last switch tie on every leg) and gluing it into place on the (foam) roadbed, I start to install rail - in conjunction with laying flex of appropriate height (code 100 hidden, code 83 visible, code 70 light-duty.) The first rail that goes in is the longest, straightest stock rail - the one which will have even tie ends. I try to span the entire footprint, so there will be flex track ties on each end and no joints over switch ties.
With that rail in place and the flex ties anchored at both ends, I apply a thin layer of grey latex caulk and slide the switch ties into place. Once they look right, I spike the rail. (Note that I didn't say anything about notching for points. More about that below.) It then serves as the first reference to establish the line of the (approximately) parallel point, frog and closure rails, which I locate with three point track gauges.
In order to establish the exact location of the frog point, I temporarily tack down the other stock rail. (Good idea to use a template if you are working at or close to minimum radius.) Once it's in place, finding the exact point of frog is a matter of ten seconds work with ye olde NMRA track gauge. Then the assembly sequence is:
I spend some extra time undercutting the sharp ends of the points, so they ride up on the base of the stock rails - which provides both good electrical contact and greater mechanical strength. (If you would rather notch stock rails, do it before they are spiked in place.) The end result should not be more than a few thousandths higher than the head of the stock rail in the closed position. My points are pivoted by soldering them to flat-head nails inserted in holes in the tie, cardstock, foam AND subgrade (which, in my case, is plywood.) My throw bars are PC board, but I pivot the points with bits of wire which are soldered to the point below the flange line, pass through the PC board (which is perforated, but has the conductive film removed) and bent to lay parallel to the throw bar between the headblock ties.
After the throw bar is in place, the second stock rail can be spiked home. Install (and solder) guard rails and the switch is ready for a throw mechanism. The PC board throw bars I cut from what Radio Shack calls experiment board have a lot of holes, so between-the-rails vertical throws, between-the-rails or outside the rails Anderson links or any kind of surface-mounted throw mechanism can be connected with ease.
The real beauty of this system is that you can divorce yourself completely from having to use any specific frog number or point length. Each turnout exactly fits the desired track configuration without compromise. Carefully built, they are UTTERLY dependable (I have some in service that were assembled in 1980.)
Not the only method, but one that has worked for me for, literally, decades.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
I'm in the "none of the above" camp too.
Get some paper switch templates, they are sold commercially and are also available at various places on line if you search. Worst case scenario, buy one switch of the size/number you want and photocopy it.
Use roadbed you can spike into. Glue down the template at the lacation you want, cut/drill the throwbar linkage holes. If the switch is curved cut slots into the template from the outside or alternating sides and form the template to conform to the centerline of the track. Glue the ties down onto the template
Starting on the straightest side of the switch, start laying the switch. Since you can see the template you know where to put the point of the frog. Once that is in place, you can then build the rest of the switch based on the location of the frog, positioning things to conform to the NMRA gauge. The first switches will take you an hour or two the 5th on will take about 45 minutes or less.
The difference in using a paper template and a commercial jig will pay for the rail used in the switches.
Dave H.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
I can only speak for the Central Valley. Good price. Easy to build and I think they look better than anything on the market. Fantastic detail on them. The tie strips are self gauging so that's not a worry. Since they are curvable you can make them fit any situation you have. I would recommend buying the Fast Tracks point filing jig to use with them just to make things easy.
I'm using Atlas Code 83 for my main layout, but I'm planning a 2'x12' industrial switching yard. I plan on using the CV track for that because it will be right up front and I can highlight the track detail. They're real good people to work with too.
Fulton:
I'm also at the beginning of a new layout. I've been working on a Central Valley kit and was just having trouble with the point wiring phase. I had just posted a question at Trainorders.com and even sent an e-mail to Central Valley. My problem is getting the base of the points to settle into the tie strip and pivot freely, after soldering the small wire to the base of each point (little hole in the hook). I'm going to try again with a softer wire. I'm also replacing their frog with the one from Details West, which looks great and drops right in.
I'm also going to buy the jigs from Fastracks, based on many positive comments. In the past, I've built them from scratch, in place, but I fear this will take me too long. I would suggest trying a Central Valley kit, the detail is great except for the frog and probably the Frastrack jigs and you've also got some excellent advise from the previous poster who builds them from scratch. For me, it always comes down to developing a technique and once you get to that point, each one will go a little quicker.
I learned of another option from a poster at Trainorders, check out the Proto 87 site (just Google it). They have lots of options for regular HO turnouts in addition to the finer scale proto 87.
john
Either way you go I think you will be fine. I have Fast Tracks Jigs and like them. I have done Central Valley and like them too! Detail is better on the CV but I think the FT's are smoother. One thing to remember with Fast Trackes is you can get tie strips that are curvable too. The have the best templates around and you can use the frog jigs with them.
Good Luck!
Scott
I second building your own, and found after the first one or two, it was a snap. I used method somewhat like Chucks's.....following Tony Koester's method in one of the Kalmbach books (Trackside or something like that). The beauty is, you can make them naturally fit the area and other than for ties, rail and spikes with some solder.... that is it.
Whatever method, have fun doing it.
Hal
I'm also thinking about building my own and I wonder if any of you have tried fasttrack turnouts (either jigs or twistties) with tie plates from proto87?
/Ulf
G'day Fulton,
Dunno anything about Central Valley, but I was all set to purchase Fast tracks, went as far as putting everything in the shopping cart and all. Then discovered the hidden cost of postage. Dunno where you are, but I'm in Australia, at the time I looked into them, Fast tracks were even advertising on their site free post on orders over $200. For one turnout jig postage to Australia was $80. So I thought maybe get two at the same time, as there were at least two sizes that would have been useful, maybe even a third, combined the postage wouldn't increase greatly WRONG - two jigs $160 postage. Now apart from the satisfaction of making your own, pricing does have a part to play in this, and the postage costs put Fast Tracks out of contention for anyone outside of North America sadly. OR MAYBE NOT SO SADLY, for both Dave and Chuck are freely giving us the answer, forget the commercial jigs, completely scratchbuild. A search across the internet will turn up several different approaches to the same ends, and a recent Model Magazine article combined should give us the information we need.
Perhaps if we ask nicely enough Dave and Chuck might even consider posting a few step by step photo's to help illustrate their instructions. Those of us who haven't attempted the task yet would be most appreciative.
Cheers.
For my layout I needed ten $5s, ten #7s and ten curved #7s. I only bought Fast Tracks Point Form tool for #5 and #7 turnouts instead of buying the entire template. I saved about $200 and I can get a wider range of turnout configurations. I will admit that the templates would make assembling a turnout A LOT easier, but it would have cost more than twice as much. Right now each turnout is costing me $6.
My
marknewton wrote:I haven't used FastTracks jigs, but I have handlaid my own track and turnouts before now. The next time I lay track I'll be trying the CV kits, or the P87 parts, or maybe even RTR turnouts. While I agree with everything said so far about handlaid turnouts flowing smoothly, and not being limited to any one frog number or geometry, I was still disappointed with my efforts. My turnouts worked well enough, but they lacked the detail of the commercial products. I like my track to look as good as it works - I suppose I could use bullhead rail and C+L components! Cheers,Mark.
The Proto87 switch kits ARE the CV product. They just include a better frog in the kit. The CV frogs aren't the greatest. If you can afford it, I'd go with the more expensive frogs. This also eliminates the need for the Fast Tracks point filing jig. I know what you mean about hand layed stuff lacking detail. Track detail is the first thing my eye goes to on a layout. A couple spikes every 4-6 ties doesn't get it for me.
Dan Stokes
My other car is a tunnel motor
stokesda wrote:I remember a thread recently where someone commented that the CV kits are not recommended for situations with varying temperature/humidity conditions. Apparently they start coming apart or something? Can anyone comment on this?
That was me that said that. I have an extreme case though. No climate control and the temp ranges from 20*F-110*F. If the layout is in a home or basement I doubt this would be a problem. I think the other person that asked was putting a layout in an old barn.
The guy at CV recommends some kind of contact cement for gluing the rails down. He says it's super strong.
Thanks, Loathar, for clarifying that.
What did you use to adhere the rails to your CV ties, if not the special contact cement (Barge is what they refer to on their website)? Do you think it would make a difference if you used the Barge cement instead?
I just did a couple dioramas about 4' long for taking photos. I just used CA cause I knew it wouldn't have any traffic on it. I'm having such bad expansion problems from the heat it's not funny. There's no way the CV stuff would stay down on my layout until I can afford to insulate the building and put some heat and AC in it. All I'm doing is fixing kinks in my track work from the heat. (using Atlas code 83) I almost wish I had gone with code 100. It's a bit stronger.
It's been in the mid 100'sF here for the last week. My climates so out of control I don't think the Barge would make any difference. Probably make things worse because the rails wouldn't be able to slid like the Atlas. God! I miss my old basement!