pghanson wrote:Mark - Good info about engine servicing - thanks. You are correct - I am modeling an end-of-the-line terminal and probably don't need much more than the TT and water - which is why that's all I included on the original plan. The enginehouse is superfluous and I have thought about modeling it as abandoned.
But I hope to use this layout to experiment with different operating schemes. It could be a short line with trains originating in the city. Or I could decide that the city is big enough to have it's own switcher. So, in those cases, coal & sand would make sense. ..
I've been a Freehand user since the Aldus days. You're probably lucky - later versions got a little bloated. I always preferrred Freehand to Illustrator, and wish it hadn't been killed.
pghanson wrote: Ray (orsonroy) - I had wished that I could make the layout larger, but my wife insists that I not take over the whole room. As you point out, small layouts have their disadvantages, but to be honest, since developing this plan I have warmed considerably to the advantages of building small. A smaller layout is easy to move if I have to, or want to take it to a show, or if I decide to sell it. It'll be cheaper. It'll be up & running faster. And it'll be easier to build to a really highly detailed level. I can live with that :-)
Hi Paul,
Having the layout hug the walls really isn't making the layout "larger"; it's just making it a little longer.
When I was planning a layout for my shared-use basement, I originally went with a longer version of what you have planned, which was a 11x25 donut-shaped layout that would have taken up roughly 2/5 of the basement. Bot once I mocked up the general footprint of the layout (by adding masking tape to the floor and wandering around visualizing things) I quickly realized that I was actually taking up quite a bit of basement real estate, and partitioning the entire space into relatively unattractive smaller rooms. Since I wanted the space to be friendly for the entire family and wanted them to actually hang out down there (so I wouldn't be accused of being a basement troll!) I had to come up with a plan that would release more floorspace for general use.
So I decided to play around with designs that would wrap around the entire basement wall. I quickly liked the idea better, for a variety of reasons. First off, it increased the length of my mainline run (and what modeler doesn't want that?). But more importantly, by raising the minimum height to 48" I freed up ALL of the floorspace under the layout for general use. Shelves, bookcases, couches, TVs, boxes of toys, etc, can now live under the layout, and the kids will actually be able to play under it. Moreover, I shrank the bulk of my shelves to 12" wide, further freeing up floorspace. Going from 18" to 12" shelves also means that I have less layout to scenic, which will allow the project to progress faster (especially since a lot of those shelves will be nothing but mainline and corn).
So I'd still recommend playing around with a fully around the walls layout. At least mock up both plans (like I did) and chew on them for a while. Let your better half look at both plans too, and let her comment on which she'd feel more comfortable with.
Ray Breyer
Modeling the NKP's Peoria Division, circa 1943
pghanson wrote:Hello again!Kurt - Your links still aren't working for me. I just get dumped to the live.com home page. But I used your information and found some images on my own - good stuff that has my wheels turning.Thanks - Paul
Here is Kurt's links in tiny-url versions:
http://tinyurl.com/39aw79
http://tinyurl.com/2j4yko
http://tinyurl.com/2rvrey
Looks like you are getting closer to building. Looking forward to seeing construction pictures from your layout eventually!
Smile,Stein
New links for riverside industries:
Sand & gravel, stainless steel scrap:
http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=40.697672~-80.273491&style=h&lvl=19&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=4958122&rtp=null~null&encType=1
Coal:
http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=40.684173~-80.261484&style=h&lvl=17&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=4958122&rtp=null~null&encType=1
A smaller coal transfer facility:
http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=40.555616~-80.210121&style=h&lvl=18&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=4958122&rtp=null~null&encType=1
HTH,
KL
The layout plan is fine, but the layout FOOTPRINT isn't.
Move the layout to hug ALL of the walls, increase the height of the layout to 50"-60" depending on your height, reduce the layout width across the entryway and closet, and make ONLY the entryway/closet section of the layout removeable. This does several things:
Since the guest room will only be used for that purpose a few tines a year, you might as well design the layout to take advantage of all of the space. The cassettes/fiddle yard can be put into the closet, or into the center of the room on a second detachable section. Narrowing the layout along the entryway gives you simpler, more manageable areas to move when necessary, and a narrower area to duck under (the increased height will help too).
I'm in a similar boat. With a growing family (two kids and counting) my 25x32 basement area has to serve as a layotu room, storage, family room and laundry. To make the most of the situation I went from a design that used a 11x25 chunk, walled off from the rest of the basement , to a 11x28 reversed-P shaped layout that shares the bulk of the space with everything else. I'm keping my shelves (it's a double deck layout) to 24" or less wide, the height to 48" and 62", and engineering the drop downs (instead of duckunders) to be as generous as possible. There's plenty of room down there for both the kids and the layout, so I don't see why you can't build a larger layout that will accomodate both a larger layout and a fully-functioning bedroom in the same room.
Paul -
I just learned something. I was born and brought up and went to college in Massachusetts and never knew there were coal pockets in the area. No, I don't think that it would be a stretch at all as you describe it.
As for the harbor, you might want to consider the Merrimack River valley. Between about central NH, Concord, downstream to Haverhill, MA there were any number of cities with economies based on manufacturing, clothing, textiles, etc. And I do remember a coal dealer in my hometown, my grandfather worked for the dealer although eventually the coal gave way to fuel oil.
I think you are onto something with the theme that you are trying to put together.
Bear "It's all about having fun."
pghanson wrote:Which brings me back to fitting loco coal & sand in where the scrapyard is now. It seems I'd need to create a little space between the turntable lead and the delivery track for the coal & sand bins. Any recommendations for how to do that without stealing too much from the grocery wholesaler?
With respect to a name, you have New England branchline identified in the track plan. There aren't any coal mines in New England that I am aware of, but, its your railroad and I am a firm believer in everyone doing their own thing in this regards. Back to the name, it could almost be located in central Connecticut or central Massachusetts where there would have been rolling farmlands and small towns. The harbor, to me, implies either a big river, the Connecticut perhaps? or the coast. In my case, there is a town (actually, in the past two years it has become a city) south of Phoenix called Maricopa and the Salt River flows through Phoenix, so, the Maricopa & Salt River is in its infancy. Just an idea.
pghanson wrote:Hi again, and thanks again for the comments.Considering what everyone has written, I still lean toward leaving it as is. Stein makes a good argument for keeping the harbor. And sure it's undersize, but so is everything else on the layout :-) But I think a harbor will be a fun modeling challenge.Adding sand and coal is a great idea, but I just think that a scrapyard - and gons filled with scrap loads - would look cooler. I hope to model a nice big engine facility some day, but it'll have to wait for the next layout.Snip...Thanks again everyone!- Paul
Okay, the harbor stays. So does the junkyard. BUT - that enginehouse (even though it's a dummy) and the turntable imply that a local switcher (or the impoverished short line's only locomotive) is based here.
So, move the junkyard down to the quay, equip that whirly crane with a big electromagnet and make the area a transload facility for scrap from inland sources to barges for transportation to a riverside steel mill, "somewhere around the bend." The junkyard can receive carloads of steel scrap for transloading, and originate a few carloads of non-ferrous/nonmetallic scrap from local sources for interchange off-line (aka staging.)
The loco that supposedly lives in that engine house still needs fuel and sand. How to provide them is left as an exercise for the student.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
pghanson wrote: No name yet. Any suggestions? I'm curious if there are any prototypes that would be a good match...
No name yet. Any suggestions? I'm curious if there are any prototypes that would be a good match...
Hi Paul --
The combination of coal, waterways, manufacturing, grain processing, cattle feeding and short trains with steam engines kind of gives (at least to me) a feel of the Midwest/Great Lakes region sometimes between 1900 and 1950.
Depends on what you want to emphasize - the granger aspect or the coal hauling aspect.
If you want to emphasize grain hauling/feed mill/stock pen, then maybe place it west of Chicago.
If you want to emphasize the coal-mines-to-water aspect, then perhaps place it in northern Ohio. Maybe something like the Bessemer and Lake Erie (BLE) ?
But by all means - this could be located pretty much anywhere except the drier parts of the far west with a good enough storyline - east coast, southern uplands, pacific northwest.
What is the feel you are looking for ? What region/type of RR/time period ?
Smile, Stein
One thing that may be more flexible for your layout than a "harbor" would be a rail-to-river transfer. It could be a sand and gravel plant (L) or scrapyard (R):
http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=40.697956~-80.274259&style=h&lvl=18&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=4958122&rtp=null~null&encType=1
or aggregates and coal:
http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=40.683038~-80.261081&style=h&lvl=16&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=4958122&rtp=null~null&encType=1
Good Plan !
Kinda reminds me of my own but instead of seperating the bed space I put my layout over top of a hideabed. That way i could go all the way around 4 walls and have a larger layout
The bed still opens up but access to the closet is blocked which is ok cause i don't want my guests staying too long !
If you go to my album site you see the ugly orange couch
The real reason i built it this way was because that couch weighs a ton and i didn't want to move it !
TerryinTexas
See my Web Site Here
http://conewriversubdivision.yolasite.com/
Ya know... this old grump finally smiled with joy to see such a well done plan. No seriously...
Me? I would boot the guest to the sofa or hand them 30 dollars for a motel room and take over the entire room and improve on that plan.
Whadda ye say?
That harbor is just too small, sorry. Even a WW2 Liberty Ship will take up 5 x 2 actual feet next to a HO scale dock.
UP2CSX wrote:Very cool plan indeed although it will be interesting to see how it all works out in your real world guest room. The only thing I'd change is dump the harbor and make it a city/industrial area. More switching opportunities and I just like building downtown scenes better than harbors.
Mmm - I see your point, but would offer the opposite advice - keep the harbor, even if there is no room for ships at the part of the pier we can see from above.
The original poster has a mirror placed there, so it will visually appear like a much longer pier. Also - the idea that the rails "end" by the shore in this direction helps prevent the viewer from looking for "more" further to the right (seen from inside the pit).
Basically, the way it is set up now - you have a RR line that runs from the hills down towards the shore. Interchange traffic can come from og go to places further "upland" - out from the tunnel in the lower left hand corner, and it can go to or come from places which connect to the same seashore city.
The underlying hills-to-shore theme looks instantly believable with the train lengths he can run with his staging - which is fairly short trains.
No matter what is decided, I am looking forward to seeing this RR getting built. I hope there will be photos posted from the construction period.
Btw - does the layout have a name yet ?
The layout is well planned out. I like it. Personally, I would have opted for more layout in the space, that is to say a little more depth along the sides. But then again you may like the space figuring you might want three operators in the pit instead of two.
The part that doesn't make sense to me is the space between the wall with the window and layout. It's not enough to walk behind or use in any way. The only time it makes sense is when the layout is dismantled and a guest is in the room, then it is visually balanced. I don't think that matters that much as the layout on the wall will be odd enough anyway.
Might as well use the 6 " and add more depth to that side.
The harbor doesn't bother me--I see it as a visual element rather than a working element. Put a small dock and a sailboat and call it a private berth for the rail road president. Then you can park a business car and run an electrical outlet.
You are allowed to put things in just to look cool.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
Welcome, lurker. Nice to have you aboard.
VERY nice layout, especially for a first effort! I, too, use cassette staging - makes for a lot of flexibility in traffic.
Things I like:
Things to think about:
All in all, a layout with lots of promise. Enjoy!
Given your space and other requirements for the room, I think this is a very good layout. It should provide a lot of fun. Working in the X staging is a real plus.
Enjoy
Paul
I like both the storage concept, the quality of your planning and the actual layout.
I particularily like the way you make it visually look like a point to point - by not having the continuous run track A-B go into one tunnel and come out of another one just on the other side of the divider between the mining hills scene and the dockyard scene - that way you won't see one half of the train in one scene, one half in the next scene during continuous runs.
I also like the height you put it at - at stoop-under height instead of crawl-under height. Also will make the scenes look a lot better - it is obviously intended to be run while standing.
I like the X factor staging, and the use of a staging cassette. You can move a train in left staging directly onto the staging cassette, potensially turn it and put it back. But the number of staging tracks - in effect one in each direction - means that you will have to stop operations from time to time to switch (or turn) cassettes. Probably not a problem - certainly not a problem if you are operating alone - you could probably get several hours of operations done with what you have on the layout plus what you have on the two staging tracks.
Good mix of industries. I like the way you don't overcrowd the scenes - leaving some room for open scenery along the upper/left side of the layout.
The idea of standing the bed up on edge (and hopefully securing it to the wall, so it won't fall down and crush your railroad or its operator/s ), and having the layout not go all the way out to the walls (ie over the bed) - allowing access to staging and wiring etc from the outside of the layout - is a very good idea!
This just looks good. One question : benchwork when deployed - one sectioned fastened to its wall shelf, I presume. Drawing shows one section (closest to the bed) with portable supports under it. What about supports for the other two sections ?
nice plan ! you should enter it next time MR has a 'small layout' design contest . your plan is a perfect example of why one should build around the walls rather than put a 4x8 layout in the middle of the same room . also impressive is the way you've figured out how to get it out of the way when you have visitors , although i'd like to see if that actually works with track and scenery installed . certainly it's good in theory !
welcome to the forum , and be sure to post photos as you make progress