70% Alcohol and Surrounding Scenery

[jacon12]

I've read before that some modelers like to use alcohol, undiluted, as a prewetting agent on ballast instead of wet water.  I've been having a heck of a time with ballast floating up onto the tie tops when using wet water applied with an eye dropper, so I'm game for anything that might work better.  My concern is will alcohol harm already sceniked areas beside the track that it might leach into and since I glue my track down to the cork roadbed and the roadbed to the extruded foam base, will the alcohol affect this glue/foam base?

I know that no matter what is used some of the ballast is going to go astray, but maybe I can at least cut the amount in half.

JaRRell

[jeffers_mz]

It didn't hurt grass here, but it did wick glue outside where the ballast ended, which made dirt areas turn a little darker. In most cases I did a little touch-up painting and sprinkled some more dirt to lighten it back up.

I also made sure that all the stray ballast that couldn't be swept back into the embankment was at least two inches away, so the wicked glue wouldn't make it permanent. I stayed several tie bays away from turnout points too.

About 95% of the area affected by the spreading glue dried such that you couldn't tell it from any other area, no real effect.

Generally it took two drops (both alcohol and glue) per tie bay between the rails, and sort of 1.5 drops per tie bay outside the rails, depending on how wide the embankment was there. No problems with floating ballast, I bet I didn't have to pry loose more than 5 grains from the tie tops, in 50 feet of track.

[selector]

Two things, JaRRell- if you use real rock and use something like an old glue bottle that has a controllable flow to dribble even a 50/50 mix of alcohol and water, you won't get the welling up and floating of the ballast particles over the ties.  I used beach sand, but you can get clean sand at hardware stores, fish tank filter sand at applicable places, or get some nice sand from a sand & gravel pit nearby, a landscaping facility.  Real sand is heavier, and dribbling the mix, not dropping it in drops, has worked like a charm for me.  In fact, I used an Elmer's Wood Glue with the plastic nozzle.  I taped the nozzle, and then pierced the tape with a single hole using a pin.  Inverted, with gentle squeezing, if any, there is a steady wee stream that you can just run back and forth over the outer ties, the outer ballast, and do a quick run between the rails.  Right away, run your 50/50 glue/water mix into the same places using a controllable dribble or light stream with the same technique.

[jacon12]

Ok, I see from your answers that I should at least use a 50/50 mix of alcohol and water.  That's gotta be where my floating problem is coming from, even with a few drops of detergent the 'wet' water still made a mess no matter how careful I was.  I see that neither of you suggested misting the wetting agent on instead of carefully dropping it on.  I think I have an old glue bottle so I'll give it a try... first with a 50/50 mix.

Crandell, with my current method I'm getting at least five grains of ballast PER tie!    I've almost resigned myself to having an unballasted track!  Oh... I'm using WS medium gray, or gray blend.. I forget which.

Thanks for the suggestions!

JaRRell

[Medina1128]

If you have a wife or a girlfriend (not both), ask her to save her old hairspray bottles. It sprays a finer mist than cleaning bottles.

[selector]

JaRRell, I thought we were talking about displacement of the ballast up and onto the ties in a serious order of magnitude.  Five grains is nothing...really.  Joe Fugate would tell you to keep doing what you are doing and then take a plastic scraper and lightly scrape those few grains off the ties once everything is dry.  You have to do that to the flange path anyway, and to the inner surface of the rail web.

Don't forget to vacuum afterwards.

-Crandell

[loathar]

I'd be real happy if all I was getting was 5 grains per tie. Those hair spray bottles work good. I've got some pump eyeglass cleaner bottles that have a super fine spray. I use those bottles from the ink cartridge refill kits. The ones with the long metal "needles" on the end. You get real good control with them.

I found straight alcohol likes to strip the paint off my rails and ties. Go with the 50/50 mix.

[MisterBeasley]

I use a couple of drops of dish detergent in about a cup of water as my wetting agent.  I put it on with an eyedropper, and yes, I get a few grains per tie floating around.  After the glue sets, I take a small screwdriver and chip them off.  Then I vacuum the track to pick up all manner of loose junk, and I'm done.

I've just become accustomed to a few loose, misplaced grains.  It's part of ballasting.

[bearman]

I'm using undiluted 70% alcohol for prewetting and having no major problems ballasting w/Arizona Rock ballast w/a 50:50 Elmer's glue:water mixture, adding a few dropsof liquid detergent to both.  I'm using an Elmer's glue bottle to apply both and find that as long as the cap is adjusted to allow for a very thin stream of liquid that there is little displacement of the ballast and no floating.  I am also ballasting before any major scenic work with the exception of painting the foam subroad bed before laying WS roadbed and track.  Near as I can figure out, everything is working out fine.  Don't use the 90% alcohol, since I understand that that might screw up any sceniced areas and maybe even loosen the glue used to glue down your track.

[jacon12]

LOl... read that again.. that's 5 grains on each and every tie.  Heck I don't know, maybe mines not so bad as I think.  The ties look kinda like they have small pox..

JaRRell

 

 

JaRRell, I thought we were talking about displacement of the ballast up and onto the ties in a serious order of magnitude.  Five grains is nothing...really.  Joe Fugate would tell you to keep doing what you are doing and then take a plastic scraper and lightly scrape those few grains off the ties once everything is dry.  You have to do that to the flange path anyway, and to the inner surface of the rail web.

Don't forget to vacuum afterwards.

-Crandell

[selector]

LOl... read that again.. that's 5 grains on each and every tie... 

JaRRell

Yes, I got that.   But....(shrugs)....that's what happens anyway.  Just spend four minutes with your wooden stirrer or whatever and give each tie top a light scrub....it's what I do.

 

 

[jacon12]

The addition of the alcohol has helped PLUS being more careful about how I drop the solution onto the ballast.

I quit taking a big swig of it between applications to the ballast and that's helped my aim a great deal.   

Jarrell

 

 

LOl... read that again.. that's 5 grains on each and every tie... 

JaRRell

Yes, I got that.   But....(shrugs)....that's what happens anyway.  Just spend four minutes with your wooden stirrer or whatever and give each tie top a light scrub....it's what I do.