DCC upgrade...what mfg and why?

[cmrproducts]

What gets me is so many people talk about the keypad interface. How much it shows and the big display.

While this might be good (and I thought so in the beginning) I very seldom use it any more! Why?

Once you get some experience with your system the screen and knob layout matters little, at least it does for me. I am now familiar with the keypad and I know where the buttons and the speed control are just by feel. I hardly ever look at the screen display.

If you have to keep referring to your screen, either you are not using your keypad enough, as in running your layout or you may have ADD. ;-)

I now have the Digitrax UT4R keypad that has no screen at all and only has a few buttons. It is so simple to use and this is what I like when I am just playing around doing switching.

I usually use the DT400R when I am having a heavy Ops session as I have to help others out (NuBee’s) until they get comfortable with my large layout. The keypads are no problem with them it is just the shear size of the layout (2700 ft of track) that makes them a little apprehensive about going out on their own and taking a train without a pilot engineer.

BOB H – Clarion, Pa

[Anonymous]

I am enjoying the debate as I am considering going to DCC with my new layout. One thing I would like to know is the cost of having decoders installed with DCC. Who does it and what is the average cost to get the engines reworked?

[Tom Bryant_MR]

QUOTE: Originally posted by pastornick

I am enjoying the debate as I am considering going to DCC with my new layout. One thing I would like to know is the cost of having decoders installed with DCC. Who does it and what is the average cost to get the engines reworked?

pastornic, I don't recall which scale you are looking at. Here is my experience on the decoder install.
1) I am new to this hobby as of Jan 2005
2) I started with N scale and purchased 2 locos with decoder already installed as I did not, and still do not for that scale feel comfortable; of course I have not tried.
3) I am changing to HO. I bought a decoder ready HO loco and a NCE decoder for my first try. I think decoder was $19 at LHS.
4) Once I figured how to remove the shell from the loco, it took about 20 minutes to drop the decoder in, get it on the programming track, read back the CV value, and bingo, loco running!

Would I do this again. You bet.

[kenkal]

You have to check around. Tony's quoted me $100 plus the cost of the decoder. I think Digistar does it for $39 + decoder. My local hobby shop does it for $20 + decoder. I don't know if these prices are for simple plug-ins or for hard wire as well.

That said, there is nothing inherently difficult about installing them save finding the space and that usually isn't a problem unless you need room for a speaker as well, but most fit well in diesels or steam tenders. Additionally, THE MOST, #1 important thing to remember is to isolate the motor from the track inputs. That may be simply removing the track leads or more complicated to also have to isolate the motor from the chassis. Most brand name maufacturers are now basically plug & play with the decoders. It's the older engines, say more than 10 years old that need more work.

I would suggest trying an install on your own as one you have one under your belt, you'll see it isn't all that difficult. Most decoder manufacturers include generous instructions on how to do installs of their product. These instructions are also available on their web site. Good luck. Ken

QUOTE: Originally posted by pastornick

I am enjoying the debate as I am considering going to DCC with my new layout. One thing I would like to know is the cost of having decoders installed with DCC. Who does it and what is the average cost to get the engines reworked?

[cmrproducts]

Most new engines have the 8 pin NMRA plug or the 9 pin JST plug, which requires just removing a jumper plug and plugging in the decoder.

Most HO Atlas and Lifelike proto 2000 engines are coming sound equipped and some have decoders only, so that makes it even easier. N scale engines are also coming with decoders installed. This eliminates a lot of work.

Now if you have older engines they may requite machining of the frame/weight to make room for the decoder. This is where the cost comes in plus having to hard wire the decoder. So you are paying someone to figure out how much weight has to be filed out and how to hard wire and each engine is different. So it is a little hard to put a cost per engine figure out there that you won't lose money on, on some of the older harder units. Some are very easy to install decoders in HO Concor MP15's are easy as the motor is isolated from the frame.

If you are just starting out then purchase engines with the decoder already installed. It may be your cheapest way.

BOB H – Clarion, PA

[kenkal]

Very good advice Bob. I forgot to mention that as well. I too am just starting out in DCC and have about 30 DC (analog) engines. But I've started buying sound equipped and intend to convert maybe only 5 of my old engines. Buying with the decoders saves a lot of time and hassle and you have a new engine where the insides were likely designed so that the decoder and speaker could fit perfectly rather than having to try to retrofit. Also, the newer engines are just so much better running than those of just 10 -15 years ago.
Ken

QUOTE: Originally posted by cmrproducts
[....
If you are just starting out then purchase engines with the decoder already installed. It may be your cheapest way.

BOB H – Clarion, PA

[aartlib]

Dear REDLeader,
Could you clarify the expansionability of the PA. My information was that this was the one limitation inherent in the PA. I sure hope you are right ,because my experience with MRC has been very favorable,but my original Prodigy is now outdated and practically useless.

Art Gordon

[robengland]

If ease of use is your #1 criteria, not Digitrax. Check out EasyDCC.

if it isn't, go Digitrax.

See my posts on other threads for why Digitrax user interface still sucks on Zephyr, DT300/400 and UT4. I've had to write my own readable reference cards.

But I bought Digitrax and I'm staying with it, because they have the market share, LocoNet is good and has third party vendor support, lots of people use them and can help with them, and their products seem pretty robust.

[Anonymous]

Hello,

NCE is a Excellent way to enjoy DCC Trains, Accessory Decoders and various other wireless or wired accessories. Burke's Trains sells a lot of NCE equipment for beginner's and pro alike and they ship worldwide. Check out the website:

http://stores.ebay.com/Burkes-Trains-plus-NCE-DCC

Hope this helps,
Greg

[Anonymous]

Well, I relented. My own layout has a home-brewed DCC controller (I am an electronics engineer specializing in microcontrollers so it was a trivial problem). But I wanted DCC for my daughters layout. So I just bought an NCE Power Pro 5 Amp system. Reason? Basically two-fold. Packaging, I wanted a nicely shaped cab she could easilly hold. And maintainability, NCE is still 100% US made.

I already use a mix of NCE decoders, one Lenz that came in a DCC equipped loco and a couple of Digitrax that were the first ones I purchased.

[Anonymous]

After much anal retentive debate with myself, I bought the NCE system. The reasons why are all stated in above posts. I have no regrets.

Another thing I like about the NCE systems is that they are able to be upgraded when NCE makes improvements/enhancements to the system software. They send you a free EPROM chip in the mail that you install yourself. I think Lenz is also capable of this, but not Digitrax.

Jim

[Adelie]

I'm a Digitrax user, and I'd certainly recommend reading up on it and checking it out. I have not found the throttles and access to the controls to be a problem.

I highly recommend attaching a PC or laptop to whatever system you wind up with and use Decoder Pro as the tool for programming and reprogramming locomotives. It is free, and allows you to store settings (which can be handy if you are going to play with the speed tables for 3 RS1s, for example). Each locomotive in the roster is stored, as well. It also provides you the CVs in pages rather than individually and provides brief descriptions of each. It is a lot more "point and click" than even the best throttle interface can be.

And obviously, it is worth the price!

[rrinker]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ConrailJim

After much anal retentive debate with myself, I bought the NCE system. The reasons why are all stated in above posts. I have no regrets.

Another thing I like about the NCE systems is that they are able to be upgraded when NCE makes improvements/enhancements to the system software. They send you a free EPROM chip in the mail that you install yourself. I think Lenz is also capable of this, but not Digitrax.

Jim

Digitrax tends to not NEED upgrades becauseof the peer-to-peer bus nature of Loconet. A new device come sout with more features, just plug it in, and you have the new features. The command station does not need to be upgraded. This is why you can't find old Digitrax sets like the Big Boy or the old DB100 boosters very cheap on eBay - because they are NOT obsolete, they work just fine in an otherwise brand-new Digitrax system. The chip CAN be changed in a Digitrax command station - it just is so rarely required it's rarely mentioned.
On a side note - check out the new Tower IO Controller from RR-CirKits. Loconet only - but the cost per port is like a Chevy vs a Rolls with the C/MRI system being the Rolls.

--Randy

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

QUOTE: Originally posted by ConrailJim

After much anal retentive debate with myself, I bought the NCE system. The reasons why are all stated in above posts. I have no regrets.

Another thing I like about the NCE systems is that they are able to be upgraded when NCE makes improvements/enhancements to the system software. They send you a free EPROM chip in the mail that you install yourself. I think Lenz is also capable of this, but not Digitrax.

Jim

Digitrax tends to not NEED upgrades becauseof the peer-to-peer bus nature of Loconet. A new device come sout with more features, just plug it in, and you have the new features. The command station does not need to be upgraded. This is why you can't find old Digitrax sets like the Big Boy or the old DB100 boosters very cheap on eBay - because they are NOT obsolete, they work just fine in an otherwise brand-new Digitrax system. The chip CAN be changed in a Digitrax command station - it just is so rarely required it's rarely mentioned.
On a side note - check out the new Tower IO Controller from RR-CirKits. Loconet only - but the cost per port is like a Chevy vs a Rolls with the C/MRI system being the Rolls.

--Randy

The reason to update the software is so you can do more with the equipment you have ...... there is no need to buy new devices. For instance, I'm waiting for the next upgrade from NCE so all my utility throttles will be able to more easily access the stationary decoders. I will not have to buy any new, improved throttles.

Anyway, I don't want to debate over this stuff. However, I would like to read about changing the chip in Digitrax equipment. Could you point me in the right direction. I looked all over for it, and I could not find where you can upgrade their chips. Tony's told me it wasn't done, also.

Jim

[rrinker]

They usually have you send it in, but it still is just a chip change. The only one I'm even aware of was a bug fix for the DCS100 which didn't allow F9-F12.

[tomytuna]

Once agin! thanks to all....soon to make decision.....last chance for anyone else's 2cents worth....Tom

[aluesch]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tomytuna


4. The real reson for this post is I plan on this new system to last long long time and although i'm sure there will be new technology in future...I don't want to make a mistake and buy wrong system

Thanks in advance for any and all comments
TOm

Hi Tom.

ZIMO.

Pros: will not be obsolete tomorrow; you do the updates yourself via Internet at no charge, wihtout opening up a command station, cab or removing a decoder from a loco. Yes, even loco decoders [8D]
How often does ZIMO update? Check on their web site...
ZIMO offers more features than any other system and does so with less components (signalling, PC-control, automation etc.).
Con: It is not a cheap system.

Regards,
Art
Zimo Agency of North America
http://www.mrsonline.net/