Opinions on Layout please. 2nd Time around

[Anonymous]

Right. So do I . I might be model railroader green, but this old boy ain't stupid. I ain't the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I ain't the dullest one, either. I certainly want realistic operation. While you do have more space than I, my space is somewhat comparable. My suggestion for your layout would be to connect the point to point runaround you have so that you could run trains. But see, I know that's not prototypical or realistic....BUT it's closer to what I want to do. At least that way, the option does exist for you to run trains constantly. Yeah, yeah, I know. It ain't necessarily prototypical. And you're right. Lastly, I have to ask you about something. Will you have access holes? If not, I feel sorry for you if you have a derailment at the lower right. I still have yet to get my 48 Top Notch Plans book. I'm sure there'll be a lot of good ideas there. If I keep pluggin away at it, I'll get it sooner or later. With yalls' help anyway.

[SpaceMouse]

I was beeing a bit unfair in that I was taking my lumber operation out of context. I actually have a lot more space, and even though what I showed you is the centerpiece of the layout, it is not everything.



The above is just the lower level. It has a second level and two staging areas. The staging areas represent the rest of the world.

Although this is point-to-point rail, by using a reverse loop on the upper level and by having a double ended staging area below the main yard to the right, I can have contiuous running, leaving the lumber area out. I had originally included the lumber area in the contiuous run by connecting it with the staging area below, but I eliminated that loop it made the center section very dense and too complicated.

I have not really solved the continuous run issues though. Because I like to listen to the trains run while I work on the models and every solution I have found so far requires human intervention, I need to keep working on it.

Like I said though, I am a long way from having a satisfactory layout. In a lot of ways, we are really in the same boat. My lumber operation was really a lot like yours until a couple people on this site got me reading.

Although a number of books were very helpful. Logging Railroads of the West. by Adams. Narrow Guage Nostalgia, by Turner. Glory Days of Logging, by Andrews, Time/Life Books The Loggers, what really turned it around for me was that photo site I mentioned before. I spent a couple days downloading pictures off that site. There are pictures of just about any time of logging operation from the 1890's to the 1940's. You don't need to pick the operational sites I did. There are other ways you can go. This site just showed me the operation and what it was like to be a logger in the West.

[oleirish]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

I got into this hobby because my 8 year old autistic son showed an interest in trains. I built a 4x8 layout with a couple circles a few spurs and a yard. There are 17 turnouts and lots of different directions to run a train. He was bored within a week. I lasted longer, I think because I had spent 5 months building it. Now it sits in the basement virtually unused. What I planned to be my connection with my son did not get off the ground. But still he likes trains. He plays with his Tomas the Tank Engine wodden set and interacts with it showing creative imagination.

My 4x8 plan.


Lower Level


Upper level.



So my goal is to make a layout that will regain his interest. My best guess is to create a railroad that has a purpose. The railraod you see above had the sole purpose of running trains.

Disclaimer: My opinions, although strongly stated all too often, are just my opinions. My wife gives me great practice at being ignored.

CHIP This is "N" scale is'nt it??
Jim

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by oleirish

QUOTE:
Lower Level


So my goal is to make a layout that will regain his interest. My best guess is to create a railroad that has a purpose. The railraod you see above had the sole purpose of running trains.

Disclaimer: My opinions, although strongly stated all too often, are just my opinions. My wife gives me great practice at being ignored.

CHIP This is "N" scale is'nt it??
Jim

No, it's very dense HO. (Matches the builder that way.)

[selector]

Gear, I'm going to jump in and say that I think you are doing just fine. If you were to ensure that you had at least two 'work'-type functions on your layout, plus and additional servicing facility, your layout should give you many hours of pleasure.

Consider an engine servicing facility (without a detailed understanding of your plan, I'd like it at your upper right spur). Adding a turntable and roundhouse will give lots of needed working function to your layout...variety.

The only other thing I'd be sure to leave myself is access to those hard-to-reach spots in case of train troubles.

If you are getting a big bee in your bonnet to start building, then go for it. I think what we are hoping you'll not do is come to regret your haste. However, at some point, ya gotta s**t or get off the pot...right?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by GearDrivenSteam

Here's another idea.



The yard is obvious. I'm thinking of the logging operation at the branch on the upper right, at a fairly steep grade. Then having to come all the way around and inside the inner loop and back into the sawmill at the left. Another industry could be on the right.

I like version two best but version three has potential. One thing I'd do for version three is put a run-around on the part of the inner loop that leads to the sawmill and other siding. This way when you are returning the empties to the logging operation the shay can pull the empties out of the sawmill, then, on the run-around, get to the head of the train so it can travel in a counter-clockwise direction (opposite the way it came) to the logging operation.

[Anonymous]

I'm dense. Splain what you mean by runaround......and exactly where you're talking about putting it.

QUOTE: Originally posted by RevMattCNJ

QUOTE: Originally posted by GearDrivenSteam

Here's another idea.



The yard is obvious. I'm thinking of the logging operation at the branch on the upper right, at a fairly steep grade. Then having to come all the way around and inside the inner loop and back into the sawmill at the left. Another industry could be on the right.

I like version two best but version three has potential. One thing I'd do for version three is put a run-around on the part of the inner loop that leads to the sawmill and other siding. This way when you are returning the empties to the logging operation the shay can pull the empties out of the sawmill, then, on the run-around, get to the head of the train so it can travel in a counter-clockwise direction (opposite the way it came) to the logging operation.

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by GearDrivenSteam

I'm dense. Splain what you mean by runaround......and exactly where you're talking about putting it.

QUOTE: Originally posted by RevMattCNJ

QUOTE: Originally posted by GearDrivenSteam

Here's another idea.



The yard is obvious. I'm thinking of the logging operation at the branch on the upper right, at a fairly steep grade. Then having to come all the way around and inside the inner loop and back into the sawmill at the left. Another industry could be on the right.

I like version two best but version three has potential. One thing I'd do for version three is put a run-around on the part of the inner loop that leads to the sawmill and other siding. This way when you are returning the empties to the logging operation the shay can pull the empties out of the sawmill, then, on the run-around, get to the head of the train so it can travel in a counter-clockwise direction (opposite the way it came) to the logging operation.

A runaround is a dual section of track where the engine can run around the train to get to the back. You will need this function to push cars into your "other industry" on the right. You will also need one near your yard as once you head in, you won't be able to get back out. If you have a runaround by the yard, you can run around the train and pu***he cars into the yard.

[jacon12]

Gear,
I just got started in the hobby this year and all I have so far is some benchwork and a little track laid down. Like you, I was interested in doing a logging themed layout but have since changed my mind and am in the process of rethinking the whole thing. Thats ok, I believe... its part of it. I guess some people know exactly what they want and can sit down and design it on paper or computer, go to the room and build the sucker the first time without any changes. Actually I don't think those people exists UNLESS it's their umpteenth layout in their lifetime and they do know what they want and where to put it. Maybe some of the comments that 'sounded' like slamming came about because they can only see track, no plan of what goes where and how it will work. I've found its helpful with these fellas to draw circles and arrows and good descriptions or else they'll send you to the Group W bench... [(-D] I'm kidding about that last part.
JaRRell
P.S. Hey Mouse, thanks for the link to the photos!

[Anonymous]

A run-around is pretty much the same as a passing siding or a dual section of track. I am suggesting you put one on the top section of your inner loop. What it will allow you to do is pull the cars out of your sawmill (on the left) and whatever industry you choose on the right hand siding. Once the cars are out of the siding you unhook your engine, drive past the respective switch, throw the switch, then drive past the train to the next switch, drive past the switch, throw it, and back into the other end of the train. This way you are returning to the logging operation or yard in the opposite direction from which you came. This is more realistic than going west to arrive at a point that is east.

Having a run around track in your yard allows you to pull in engine first, un-hook, pull forward past the switch, throw the switch, change directions and exit the yard on the run-around track.

[Anonymous]

I think I understand...but to get it fully, I guess I need to see a picture. Can one of yall give me an example?

QUOTE: Originally posted by RevMattCNJ

A run-around is pretty much the same as a passing siding or a dual section of track. I am suggesting you put one on the top section of your inner loop. What it will allow you to do is pull the cars out of your sawmill (on the left) and whatever industry you choose on the right hand siding. Once the cars are out of the siding you unhook your engine, drive past the respective switch, throw the switch, then drive past the train to the next switch, drive past the switch, throw it, and back into the other end of the train. This way you are returning to the logging operation or yard in the opposite direction from which you came. This is more realistic than going west to arrive at a point that is east.

Having a run around track in your yard allows you to pull in engine first, un-hook, pull forward past the switch, throw the switch, change directions and exit the yard on the run-around track.

[SpaceMouse]

Suppose that you want to set off a car in your upper right hand siding. Right now, your engince can pull the car in, but not be able to get the engine out without backing the car out.

With a runaround you can pull the train onto the track right next to the red track I drew in on the left. You diconnect the train at the coupler directly in front of the car you want to drop off. The front part of the train pulls a head and backs int the siding and back onto the main to position itself in the back of the train. The engine then moves forward pushing the car into the side where it can disconect, thereby leaving the car.

It then pulls the train back on to the main adjacent the siding, disconnects the engine from the rear of the train. The engine (and cars) then runs around and positions itself in front of the train and reconnects.



The same type action happens near the yard. Then engine drops of the train on the main and uses the siding to get behind the train. It can then drop the cars (classifies them) in the appropriate classification track. If they are all mixed up, this will result in the train backing out and changing tracks quite a bit to get them sorted.

[Anonymous]

GOT IT! Thanks, Chip.

[tstage]

GearDrivenSteam,

Are you going to have an opening or access in the center to reach all of the areas of your layout if you need to? Also, you have a number of "S" curves that could reak havoc on longer cars and locomotives. ("S" curves are notorious for causing derailments.) As Chip pointed out earlier, think what both you AND your layout are trying to accomplish in the designing process. In other words, "What is the reason I have my track going in this direction and why?

GDS, don't be discouraged by all the input. I been working on my layout now for over a year and still haven't come up with a final design yet.

Tom

[Anonymous]

Absolutely. It's going to be an around the room shelf design, no matter which plan I decide on. I'll also cut access holes anywhere I need um.

QUOTE: Originally posted by tstage

GearDrivenSteam,

Are you going to have an opening or access in the center to reach all of the areas of your layout if you need to? Also, you have a number of "S" curves that could reak havoc on longer cars and locomotives. ("S" curves are notorious for causing derailments.) As Chip pointed out earlier, think what both you AND your layout are trying to accomplish in the designing process. In other words, "What is the reason I have my track going in this direction and why?

GDS, don't be discouraged by all the input. I been working on my layout now for over a year and still haven't come up with a final design yet.

Tom

[SpaceMouse]

Full size image: http://www.paultemplar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/0n30layout/aa11.jpg

For inspiration, check out Paul Templar's site.

http://www.cooncreek-and-tumbleweed-springs.co.uk/

[Anonymous]

I know. It's awesome. It makes me sick. LOL.

[SpaceMouse]

Did you know he runs a Railroading Forum? There is a forum on Logging and Mining. A lot of good resources and you can ask Paul questions. His handle is Shamus.
http://www.all-model-railroading.co.uk/forum/index.php

[selector]

Geeze, Chip, you ARE getting serious about this...[:O][^]

[SpaceMouse]

Crandell,

I know it seems like I flap my yap with little or no knowledge of what is coming out, but I do know how to listen.

[Anonymous]

Chip, I really appreciate you. You always treat me like I'm not stupid. Maybe one day, I won't be. LOL. Thankya.

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

Did you know he runs a Railroading Forum? There is a forum on Logging and Mining. A lot of good resources and you can ask Paul questions. His handle is Shamus.
http://www.all-model-railroading.co.uk/forum/index.php

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by GearDrivenSteam

Chip, I really appreciate you. You always treat me like I'm not stupid. Maybe one day, I won't be. LOL. Thankya.

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

Did you know he runs a Railroading Forum? There is a forum on Logging and Mining. A lot of good resources and you can ask Paul questions. His handle is Shamus.
http://www.all-model-railroading.co.uk/forum/index.php

When I first logged on here there was a guy named Jetrock that really helped me out. I mean when it came to trains I was a fence post. He was helping me design a yard and at the time I was thinking about a small around the room layout --11.5 x 11.6 but one side was only 6.5 so it was lopsided.

Anyway, I could not figure out what a yard lead was. People kept directing me to sites that showed yards, but they always cut off the long end of the lead, so I thought the lead was something else. I kept designing yards the way I thought they wanted, but because the lead was wrong, the yard just wouldn't work.

Jetrock tried his best to explain and others chimed in basically telling me that I was so dumb I'd never get it. Finally, Jetrock gave up that I would ever get how a yard worked--but he helped in other ways until I finally had an Ah-ha moment.

Now I don't know if Jetrock ever got past how fence post dumb I was, but he has been an incredible help with research and keeping me on track with my logging operation. I owe him a lot.

[Anonymous]

I don't know what a lead is either.

[SpaceMouse]

I'm sure there others that can give a better explaination.

A yard lead is a track other than the main that is as long or longer than the longest classification track. It allows a switcher to pull a train completely out of the yard so that it can classify the cars. The yard below has double ended and has a yard lead in each direction. They are numbered 1 and 2



By having a long yard lead, the switcher can move around long trains without "fouling" the main.

[Anonymous]

i agee with youre first replier,mabe if there was just a little less track