Local Hobby Shops Price Themselves Out of Business!

[Anonymous]

Maybe it's just my area (Central Jersey), but it seems that my two local hobby shops are VERY overpriced. Case in point: I received a $200 gift certificate from my father-in-law for Christmas. I went to spend it Saturday. With my March MRR in hand, I was ready to haggle a bit, knowing this guy's prices are crazy.

Example: case of Atlas Code 100 Superflex track Internet (Trainworld) price: $56.25 Local Guy: $9 5!!!!!!!!! That's Ninety-five dollars!!!!

Atlas remote Snap Switch: Trainworld: $9.99 Local Guy: $14.95!

Case o' cork roadbed: T.W: $20 Local: $30


You get the picture. I'm not asking (nor did I) for the local hobby shops to match Internet pricing - they can't. BUT to charge nearly double is suicide and, I think, unreasonable.

I ended up getting $1.50 off each switch and $5.00 off the case of flex track. I ended up spending $50 more than my $200 gift certificate to help get my new layout started.

I'm going to DCC. I sure won't buy it from the locals, unless I get a $500 gift certificate! He wants $300 for the new MRC Prodigy Advanced!!! Ha! OOOOOOOOkkkkkk (I'm going w/ Digitrax Zephyr from Tony's Train Xchange).

Matt

[Anonymous]

Try going to your local internet hobby shop to see anything, Or get somebody to help you figure something out face to face. If you don't need it don''t use it. Most of us like to touchey, feeley the stuff first!!

[Anonymous]

Matt, those LHS prices are about the same as the store I go to here in the boondocks of Indiana. But the local guy has advantages:

1) He can take the hassle out of ordering anything I want, and I mean ANYTHING having to do with trains.
2) He usually gets anything I want delivered in only a few days if it's not in store stock.
2) If he has in stock exactly what I want, it's in my hands this very minute, as in the Saturday afternoon of my scheduled 'train night' in the basement.
3) The shipping and handling charges are already paid when I buy from him.
4) I have talked him down on some things (A Kato N scale diesel I convinced him had been sitting under his glass countertop for three years!).
5) He is a heck of a nice guy who knows trains, planes, boats, and RC race cars like the back of his hand.
6) A bunch of familiar characters with model railroadin' stories can be counted on to be there on any given Saturday when I shop.
7) When I shop there, I am supporting a local business in a gloomy midwestern town.
I guess I could think of more reasons, but that's it for now. I'm not saying your point is not well taken. I have also shopped mail order, and will do that on big ticket things, but I also ordered 8 IHM streamliner cars from the LHS, got them in a few days, and paid no more than mail order. You never know. Sometimes it works out better for you to stay in town.
George

[Anonymous]

Matt,
this ol' subjects been beaten to death many times on this forum. Type in this subject in the search the forums box and you'll see! The only comment I have is my usual answers. I don't buy a locomotive till I've seen it run, and if someone gives me good service and advice then it's worth the extra price.

[topcopdoc]

PRRMan let me guess, a shore town in Monmouth County, right? There are still a couple of local suppliers who don't require a second mortgage to pay for your RR stuff. I deal with one who has an internet hobby supply but sells locally. He does not have to pay overhead for a store front.
There is a link that lists all the hobby stores in NJ. I called them all until I found the right one.

Good luck, Doc

[Anonymous]

Hey, gang. Sorry if I posted something that's been beaten already. I was just in shock re: Mr. Full Retail's prices.

Hey, topcopdoc! You were close on the guess! I lived in Monmouth County for 27 years, and now live Ocean. By the looks of your screen name here, I'd say we're in the same profession, too! I've been "on the job" for 10 years now... What's the name of the LHS you referred to?

Thanks!

Matt

[rlbeetle]

Our lhs carries a few train items and the prices are higher than online. His loco prices aren't bad and his price on the MRC system is close to online prices. When I got my first layout (just a simple oval with a passing lane) I went to Aardvark's in Nashville who carries a lot of train stuff. Being new to the hobby it was nice to talk to someone in person and get some advice. The man that runs the lhs did take the time to explain block wiring and show me how it worked on his layout. If I need a few parts I don't mind paying a little extra and get it right then, but on the big items I check prices with him and online and go with the best price.

[Jacktal]

George,I can't agree with you any more.A very sensible post by all means.I've been in R/C flying planes for ten years and have witnessed this situation more times than I can count.Guys expect the local hobby store to serve them well when they need a few sticks of balsa,or a single servo horn or whatever,but when time came for bigger purchases,they went the mail order route.Worse yet,they complained like h... when they couldn't find a specific needle valve that they had an urgent need of to fly the same day saying that the "local" wasn't a reliable parts supplier.

Sadly,customership volume dictates dealer size which in turn dictates inventory size...simple law of business...isn't it?And sales volume dictates prices and the other way around too.There's no way a small business outlet can compete with big suppliers,even more so since the advent of Internet marketing with big order houses being able to generate profits with huge volumes.The local on the other hand has to rely on unit pricing to pay the rent.

Personally,I buy from two sources...my local hobby shop for current items and Ebay for out of production models that my LHS can't get from his suppliers.Surprisingly,he can offer me quite reasonable prices on older items ordered (when still avail) as he doesn't have to support them.

[topcopdoc]

PRMan

You are right on the profession and I am still working after 40 years. I model just PRR. The first site lists almost every hobby shop in the state. I have been to many of them.

http://www.railmodeling.com/dealers/namerica/NEW_JERSEY/
This second one does mail order and is only 5 miles from my house. He is a good guy with decent prices. There is another one just one block away which I can’t afford to even look in the window.

http://www.modelrailcraft.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?

If you need anything else contact me.
Dr. George Lang

[simon1966]

This is such a tough issue and one that I don't have a good answer for. I travel a lot and often visit LHS all over the USA. I will spend a good amount of time browsing in these stores and will often buy something of interest. There is nothing I enjoy more than a well stocked model RR store that has detail parts and more unusual items. Each store owner has to define their own businesses. They have to recognize the reality of the web retailer (they are not going to go away) and target their business to serve their local customer base, and in many cases join the web market place. Some Hobby stores do not appeal to me at all. Others hold my attention for hours and get my dollars. I happen to be very fortunate in having a well stocked, well priced LHS less than 5 miles from my house. So in my opinion, it is quite possible for a good LHS to thrive.

[Leon Silverman]

PRRMan:
How close are you to Delran, route 130? You might want to try M & G Hobbies.

[davekelly]

When I lived in NJ (grew up there and went to college in Philadelphia) I used to go to the Model Railroad Shop in Dunellen. I don't remember if he charged list or not, but I figured that it was worth paying a bit more on stuff in exchange for the fun I had just browsing around and looking at all the stuff. The staff there was also very very knowledable. What sealed it for me was when I asked if he had the cab for an Atlas Geep. He went in the back, brought out a whole shell, popped off the cab, smiled and said "would that work"? How much is service like that worth?

[BRVRR]

I am fortunate here in Northeast Ohio. I have two local shops that will give you a break. One will order anything for you. Mostly from Walthers, but you get the sale price and no shipping charges.
The other shop prices his stuff at about what you can get it on the internet for, plus shipping. You always get at least a 10% discount from the marked price. He told me recently that he is soon going to have a presence on the internet, able to deliver anything from any of his many suppliers. I can't wait.
Both of these stores are well stocked with the things you need every day. The only things missing are locomotive detail parts.
I support both whenever I can. I buy on the internet only when I cannot get a reasonable price locally.

[CBQ_Guy]

Support your local hobby shop . . .

. . . [IF] He supports you!

[soapbox]

[Anonymous]

Well my LHS isnt really local its about 1.5 hours away but two of the gentleman are helpful. the owner is the rudest man I have ever met and will talk down to you.
Some prices are the same as online but others are way high.
for example the Trix big boy is 810.00 but online I have seen it as low as 650.00.
I remember another LHS I went to back in the old days.
I actually asked them why one item was marked so high and they said thats what everyone else is selling it for so I pulled out a MR mag and opened it to that item not a competitor ad but the manufacturers ad and point out the price. Theirs was double.what gives I aksed they said it was a typo on MR's part.
They are out of business go figure.

[Anonymous]

Thanks again for the input.

One thing I forgot to mention about the LHS - it's a mess, too. Boxes all over the floor, models stacked every which way. They were out of Code 100 rail joiners when I bought my case of flex track, too. LOL! Hey, if a shop has great service, FAIR prices and the people who work there are pleasant & helpful, I'm all for it.

TopCopDoc: I totally forgot about MRSD! I've been meaning to check them out for years, but haven't gotten around to it. I've heard good things about them. The other shop, (second part of their name sort of rhymes w/ a word I won't type here), I agree with your analysis of...

DaveKelly: My dad grew up in Plainfield on West Front Street. He used to go to the shop in Dunellen often many moons ago. I believe it's still there, but it's a hike from where I'm at.

Leon Silverman - I'm about an hour north of Delran - I may have to check out your LHS. Thanks.

[davekelly]

PRRMan,

Inoticed that MRSD is in Red Bank. Is that any relation to Hobbymasters?

I grew up in Lincroft (Middletown High School South, '82). Loved riding the train from Red Bank to NYC with my dad. Was back home last summer and took my fiance and son on a train ride from Middletown to NYC to see the sights. Man it was great riding the train with my son the way my dad and I used to!

[RoyalOaker]

This is tough as I am on a budget.

The LHS near me is very high priced but is close enough to entice me over if I am looking for some small items. But I cannot buy big items from them, because I have some other options available.

I have two others that are about 40 minutes away from me in different directions. One is a little shop that mostly deals with trains. The owners are able to repair anything and has advice for everything. This store also buys used sets from people and will clean the items up and re-sell them at great prices. The other LHS is huge and has an incredible selection and prices that are comparable to the on line stuff on most items.(When you add shipping/handling to the online purchases)

I like to support the LHS when I can.

[Anonymous]

Dave Kelly - No, Hobby Masters is not related to MRSD in any way shape or form. I've yet to check out MRSD, but plan on going there next weekend! I always take the train when my wife & I go to the city. I love it.

[Anonymous]

I'd be happy if I didn't have to travel 50 miles to my LHS. Our "more local" shop went out of business in December ...

[Anonymous]

There are 2 LHS close to me. One has a couple of Woodland Scenics trees, a bag of ballast, a couple of LifeLike structures, and some Bachmann Easy Track. The rest of the store is split-half for plastic model kits, and half for R/C stuff.
The other one has quite a few HO train items, but everything is at list price and so covered with dust that I sneeze the entire time I am there.
Online is the only way for me. Nobody near worth a damn, and even the shops that are a little drive away don't participate in any of the sales Walthers has. They are listed as participants in the Walthers circular, but they don't honor it. As far as I am concerned, they aren't interested in my business, so I send my money where it does the most good for me.

[willy6]

My LHS is Hobbytown USA, strickly MSRP. It's model railroad section is geared to the low line products. I usually just buy glues,paints, styrene and scenery items (must have items) and use mail order for high dollar items.He had an Atlas GP-38 sitting in the display case for over a year @ MSRP and I made an offer to him to take it off his hands, It still sits in the display case. He said his biggest sales are in R/C and the war games stuff.

[jkeaton]

RE: sales in War Games Stuff. Yeah, it's amazing how war gamers pay MSRP for everything - but those manufacturers keep close control on the inventory chain, won't sell to discounters, and convince their customers that brand X figurines can't be used with brand Y. A very different world from the dog-eat-dog of model railroading. My teenage son is into Warhammer wargaming, and while he bitches about prices, he still buys even Games Workshop paint at MSRP and refuses to consider using any other brand.
Jim

[Anonymous]

When I lived in the Nashville Area, I found a hobby store resonable, I bought many HO parts and track . Now after I have relocated to the Midwest (Iowa) this doesn't hold true, the only hobby store I have found is way out of line in their price. But they will still get some of my business because the have a stock much more then any I have ever found. Many parts that are shown on the net, but can't see them that well they have, and all the name brands.

[Anonymous]

But the LHS can make you a very good deal on a large purchase...

When I was ready to start my last layout, I developed a list of materials (about $1500 worth) and contacted several LHS' to see if they were interested in making a bid, most did.

The winning LDS had a total package that was several hundred dollars lower than what I could get by cherry-picking the best prices at all of the mail-order and internet shops.

It was a win-win deal. I got the best price by far, and the LDS made a nice middle-man profit with minimal effort and without carrying any extra inventory... and they will be there the next time I need a bottle of paint.

So for me, when ever I'm about to make a significant purchase, I always let the LDS take a shot at it. I don't expect them to beat any price on single items, but they can be very competitive on package deals!

[pbjwilson]

If I did'nt have the local hobby shop nearby where would I go on the weekends to get away from my wife. The shop owner is my substitute for a bartender. Go in, talk about whatever, walk out with something even if it's just a magazine or a car kit. Can you do that over the internet at Trainworld?

[grayfox1119]

If any of you guys are home owners, especially those living in high tax states, what has happened to your real estate taxes over the last 5 years? How about your sewer use/tax, your water bills, your cost for heating, your electrical use bill ( thats a good one). No one is going to say that it went DOWN. Well, your local hobby shop owner has to pay for all those increase each year. And by the way, do you get a salary increas each year? I don't care how small it may be, do you get a raise? Well what about the LHS owner? When/how does he get a raise? He has all the same bills to pay at home that we do, and as we all know, none of them are going down. So just how does he make a living selling us our hobby items? Do we like going to see the items we wi***o purchase? Isn't it more enjoyable to see the loco, touch it, run it, talk about it with the salesperson and other hobbyist in the store?
The bottom line is guys, we have a choice, support the LHS's or lose them. And yes, I can hear the crying now, " but we are on limited income too". Yes you are, but you still have a choice of supporting the LHS when and where you can, and purchasing other items online. But remember, when your LHS closes, and the nearest one is now 100 or 200 miles away, you have no one to blame but yourself.
And before you ask...NO, I am not a store owner, and I do support my LHS as much as I can, and I "am" on limited income , being retired.
Do your best to support your LHS.

[Anonymous]

Remember the words above when shopping for a mortgage or insurance, too. How many use geico or progressive for car insurance? DiTech for a loan?
No, it's not our responsibility to provide a living wage to the hobby shop owners, but it is there responsibility to do whatever is necessary to stay competitive so they stay in business. For crying out loud, they aren't charities, they are businesses. They have the same tools all other businesses have, but they fail to use them. I have a trucking company, and I have to offer discounts or perks at times to get work. I have established rates, but they are guidelines, and are negotiable. I also have to maintain relationships with my customers, and alsi solicit and advertise to get more business. How many hobby shops (that don't sell online) advertise model rr stuff in places BESIDES model rr'ing mags? I don't ever recall seeing an advertisement for model rr supplies on the TV or radio, let alone a small newspaper ad or flyer. The local hobby shop is doomen as it is it's own enemy. It wants to sit there quietly in the background and wait for business. The only time you hear from one is when they are whining about how bad things are.
Maybe some of you are fortunate enough to have a good shop around, but I would bet they are few and far between.

Just my opinion, based on my small amount of experience.

[IRONROOSTER]

I am afraid that we are witnessing a changing of marketing in this country. The local hardware stores are gone replaced by the Home Depots and Lowes. The five and dime stores and similar stores are gone replaced by Walmart. Shopping is heavily driven by the lowest price which requires volume to stay in business. This leads to a few large chains that volume buy and use their clout to get low prices - the small operations can't compete and die out. Every go through a town or small city a year after the local Walmart opened?

The internet has done this for small operations like model railroading. I expect that half of all hobby shops will be gone in 5 years. In Northern Virginia the number of hobby shops has been steadily declining. They are replaced by the volume guys on the internet.

This is not to say that the LHS can't do things to help stay in business, but I think only the few that are in the right markets will survive. The rest will go the way of the five and dime.
Enjoy
Paul

[Anonymous]

Something else I didn't think of is the fact that less people are getting involved in hobbies in general. It's easier to sit in front of the tube with an X-Box or order pay-per-view than to actually go out and buy a hobby kit of some sort. When I go to the hobby shop near me for plastic kit models, it is filled with fat old men buying R/C stuff. I don't think I have ever seen a young person in there. Even Walmart, K-Mart, and Meijer don't carry the plastic kits and paints they used to. The market for a lot of hobbies is disappearing. I don't think many "Model Railroad Only" hobby shops are going to make it. They need to diversify some.