Hi All!!
As my suject line suggests, I am looking for ideas and opinions for turnout control in a staging yard. Now, all turnouts on the sceniked part of the layout will have under-the-table devices (Tortise Switch Machine), but what to do with staging? In staging, I want reliablity more-so than realism. I want to keep costs down, and because I plan on having run-through staging, if I have ten staging tracks, that means I need 20 switch controls. That is alot of Tortise Machines that can add up fast.
Again, looking for realiability over realism. Any thoughts?
Thanks in Advance for the help!!
Mike
In my last yard I was installing a combination of Atlas and Switchmaster switch machines. The layout was torn down before I got control panels going.
Now I am planning a new layout with a staging yard which will employ probably around 20 turnouts. I had a thought, why just forget all that expense and hassle and just install finger flick Peco turnouts this time around.
Sure seems nice not to have to pay for and install a whole bunch of switch matches and contollers and lots of wiring. It's low tech but as long as you design staging with decent access, then to me it seems like elegant simplicity.
Those are my thoughts.
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Is the staging yard visible to the casual viewer? Is it easy to reach?
My latest yard is Tortoise, but earlier ones were Atlas remotes.
Peco is pretty bulletproof but they cost more than Atlas.
Do you need position indicator lights on a control panel?
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
MGAMikeI want to keep costs down, and because I plan on having run-through staging, if I have ten staging tracks, that means I need 20 switch controls. That is alot of Tortise Machines that can add up fast.
you can have one tortoise control more than one turnout if both turnouts are not on the same route.
updated diagram show 2 pairs of turnouts, A & B, that can share a frog juicer
see my post under Installing a switch machine under an existing layout describing how to use a tortoise to control a pivot instead of being mounted directly under the throwbar.
a single tortoise can be linked to more than one pivot controlling a turnout.
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
If your staging area is readily accessible, Caboose Industries sprung ground throws are easy to install, work reliably, and are reasonably priced, especially in comparison to powered options. I originally used them on all but one turnout on my layout, but have been replacing some of them lately with a simple spring installed in the turnout, as in the photo below...
However, my staging tracks are all controlled by Caboose Industries ground throws...
If these ground throws would be of use for your staging area, contact me via PM.
Wayne
I too have a similar yard and plan to use Caboose Industries ground throws. Dr. Wayne has a sound approach. Why can't I see is photos is another issue.
My staging is operated by Tortoise switch machines, but parts of the leads are located where hand throws would be a problem as it's in another room from most of the layout. If you have ready access, then handthrows work well.
Keep in mind you don't need a control panel if you use the Macro controls provided with NCE or whatever is similar with other DCC systems. With Macro commands, you enter all the turnouts aligned to enter the track you need, then it's just a matter of calling them up and the entire route is aligned.
If you need simultaneous access to different tracks at the opposite ends, you can set up different Macro commands that do just one end. I have 7 staging tracks. For through staging to align both ends, they are Macros 1 to 7. For access to just one end it's Macros 11 to 17. For the opposite end only, it's Macros 21 to 27.
Depending on how you envision your controls, this eliminates the need for a control panel, along with the time and material investments you make building it. What's saved there can make going with Tortoises more cost effective than they initially may seem.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
If your staging area is readily accessible, Caboose Industries sprung ground throws are easy to install, work reliably, and are reasonably priced, especially in comparison to powered options
kasskaboose I too have a similar yard and plan to use Caboose Industries ground throws. Dr. Wayne has a sound approach.
I too have a similar yard and plan to use Caboose Industries ground throws. Dr. Wayne has a sound approach.
"Sound approach" but there are other good, even better options.
Personally I installed Caboose Industries ground throws on my last layout and find them somewhat awkward to operate. I have to get a finger nail or edge of my finger under it so I can lift he the lever and flip it over. Plus it's a separate item you have to buy and install. Not a huge deal but it all adds up on a layout.
Now if cost is a concern and you haven't already bought turnouts, you could completely removed grown throws from the equation and buy Peco turnouts for your staging yard.
Say you go the cheapest route and use Atlas turnouts; they will set you back about $14 discount price Add on a Caboose Industry Ground throw, nearly $3. Total cost about $17.
If you shop around, you can find Peco Code 100 large turnouts in the $18-19 range so for only a couple bucks more you have a better quality, smoother operating turnout without the pothole effect as cars travel through, AND a built in finger flick point throw. No extra item to buy and install. Snicker snack!
If you are in code 83, or for some reason don't like Peco, you can buy MicroEngineering turnouts for $19 each and they also have the finger flick point throw built in.
So for manual KIS staging yards (no wiring or expensive powered switch machines, no installation, no control panel), there are other manual options that Keep It Simple and cost difference is very little.
Choose your poison. Choose wisely.
If simple and cheap are driving the decision and appearance is not an issue, it's a simple matter to make a safety pin type device out of music wire. Put one end in the throwbar, a screw through the loop in the bend, then two track nails to hold the "handle" end in each direction so it puts the desired tension on the points.
I've used this device as a temporary solution while the turnout waits it's turn to be automated. I can make one of these in just a couple minutes, and if you're a packrat like the rest of us, it's probably free.
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riogrande5761If you are in code 83
PECO now offers Code 83, still with the spring.
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I have a staging yard that requires a duck under to gain access.
I used peco turnouts with the single ended yard being fed from the throat.
This means only one track is live at a time.
I used peco under table throws, a capacitor discharge circuit, and a diode matrix.
Reasonabley easy for visiting engineers to use.
Pricier than some options, durabile and robust.
Dave
There is a learning curve to be sure, but a lot of groundwork is already done to do things like using Arduinos and servos to operate turnouts. You don't have to be a computer guru to learn how to use them Servos are cheap, cheap enough to buy by the case or flat. And they lend themselves to other things like crossing gates, semaphores, and opening and closing doors, windows, and curtains.
There are Arduino like devices that are cheap enough it sometimes doesn't make sense to try and fill one up to do a bunch of stuff but to have them do things, maybe different things, in a small surrounding area and keep home run wireing to a minimum.
Anyway, a servo can be installed and operated with a basic program to operate a turnout, and rather than fussing with adjusting linkages and moving the switch motor (twin coil, tortise, whatever), you can adjust the code to move the amount of throw one way or the other, and how fast it moves.
Once you get the hang of using an Arduino for turnout operation it is a pretty short step to learning to do other things with them. A lot of folks here can help and there is a wealth of info on You-Tube, among other places.
cuyama riogrande5761 If you are in code 83 PECO now offers Code 83, still with the spring.
riogrande5761 If you are in code 83
For some years now yes, Peco has offered code 83. What, maybe 15+ years?
I am in both code 100 (for staging) and code 83 (outside of staging)
Turnout in the red packaging to the left below.
I didn't list the Peco code 83 because the context of my post was somewhat cost related. Because of cost, my guess is the more expensive turnouts would be reserved for the "visible" or above-staging part of the layout. Peco code 83 turnouts go for about 7 dollars more than it's code 100 counterpart.
riogrande5761...Personally I installed Caboose Industries ground throws on my last layout and find them somewhat awkward to operate. I have to get a finger nail or edge of my finger under it so I can lift he the lever and flip it over....
I can't say if it will work for all Caboose Industries ground throws, but for the sprung versions, simply place your finger atop the main part of the mechanism, then press down in the direction opposite of where the handle lies - the gear-like thingy beneath your finger will rotate slightly, lifting the handle from its locked position, making it easy to grasp.
While DCC turnout control is nice to have available, it is not for everyone. If you do go that route, make sure your stationary decoders will support operation from toggles as well.
RR_MelGo with an Arduino controller and use the SG90 servos. A single Arduino MEGA (under $10) will control 20 turnouts using SG90 Servos at $1.50 each.
Is there a link to where I can see how these are wired (control circuit)?
Thanks
RR_MelHere is a link that might help. http://www.sumidacrossing.org/Musings/files/150419_Track_Turnouts_and_Servos.php
Thank you. A quick read seems to indicate that the servo is not a stall-motor design. I'm assuming that the arduino gets programed to move the servo a certain distance. It would seem to me that a very precise adjustment would be required to get the servo to move just the right amount to hold the points against the stock rail, not too much and not too little.
I wonder if there is a way to come up with a design similar to the sprung Caboose Industries item.