Came across this image of the Lemp Brewery https://stlouispatina.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/getimage-idx.jpg I thought this would make a great layout, but would need a bit of selective compression to make it manageable in HO. Any ideas on how to minimize and selectively eleminate some of the track and still make this a functional switching layout? any ideas would be appreciated.
Hi g44p44:
Welcome to the forums!!
That would be a really neat layout!
The first questions that come to mind are how much space do you have to work with, and what scale are you considering? This would be a great 'free standing' layout IMHO, as opposed to an around the walls setup. That would allow you to have tracks crossing each other as in the prototype and would convey the 'size' of the complex.
One thing that struck me was the potentially long reach in distances if the layout was to be the same relative shape as the prototype. The prototype is roughly in the form of a triangle with important elements both in the center of the triangle and around the outside edges. Perhaps you could elongate the plan somewhat so the 'product flow' is more linear i.e. from left to right or vise versa.
You might want to have a look at some of doctorwayne's scratch built and kit bashed structures. He is an artist when it come to building large structures. Maybe he will chime in.
Don't forget to spill a little beer on the layout floor every few days. There is no mistaking the smell of a brewery!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Model railroaders love breweries! And they can be good choices for a layout, since many receive a variety of cars and commodities.
As Dave notes, you probably can't recreate the real thing in anything like a scale version, but backdrop flats (and even fascia flats) can represent a large building without using too much precious layout space.
Probably the most compact version I have done is an N scale T-Track module, which is inspired by the huge Budweiser brewery in Van Nuys, CA. Compressed into about 4 square feet, there are spots for a variety of cars. And when paired with a yard module, it provided a lot of interesting operation. In a larger space, longer tracks would be great, of course.
Another brewery design is found on this N scale layout (click the image on that web page for a labeled track plan). It was inspired by a real location, but modified a lot for space. Again, the largest brewery structures are against a backdrop.
Model Railroader magazine published a series on building a switching layout (“The Beer Line”) including a couple of breweries from January through May in 2009.
Good luck with your layout.
Byron
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
What a switching nightmare. It looks like the connection to the outside world is through the ice house to Potomac Street. The tail tracks in the northeast and southeast corners don't look to be over 50 ft. Maybe long enough for one 34 ft car and an 0-4-0 tank engine. I thought the there might be a wye in the east track arrangement, but it's not. Btw, where is this located?
Ray
Colorado RayWhat a switching nightmare.
Hi Ray:
I'm not sure if you are being critical of the layout challenges or praising the opportunities presented by it. IMHO the 'nightmare' of switching the brewery could be a lot of fun!
In addition to the main arrival track going through the ice house, there are a few of other tracks that disappear into buildings only to emerge on the other side. There are also a bunch of short stub end tracks which would only fit a switcher and a car or maybe two. Never a dull moment!
Regards,
N Scale Atlas80 Custom Line #4 approx 13' x 13'
LEMP_zps1p2yibs5 by Donald Schmitt, on Flickr
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
Btw, where is this located?
Hi
Around here (St. Louis Mo.) it's refered to as "The old Lemp Brewery" A well known land mark. And a place to visit.
Cheers
Lee
Thanks for the replies. I'm modeling HO(downsizing from O) and was initially thinking of a shelf layout similar to Byrons AB plan. When I came across this photo of the Lemp Brewery I immediately thought of a 4x8 switching layout designed by John Glaab featured in Model Railroad Planning, 2008. Although his plan was based on steel, the bigger structures of the brewery would be an easy substitute I think. Working on trackplan now and will post when finished. Thanks,
Geoff
g44p444x8 switching layout designed by John Glaab featured in Model Railroad Planning, 2008
That is a neat layout, but note that it is somewhat un-switchable without extensions to the 4X8 sheet. Worthwhile to consider that as you design your layout.
cuyama g44p44 4x8 switching layout designed by John Glaab featured in Model Railroad Planning, 2008 That is a neat layout, but note that it is somewhat un-switchable without extensions to the 4X8 sheet. Worthwhile to consider that as you design your layout.
g44p44 4x8 switching layout designed by John Glaab featured in Model Railroad Planning, 2008
Byron, interested in your thoughts to make it more switchable? not to be combative, but just to pick your brain given your design experience. Thanks
g44p44Byron, interested in your thoughts to make it more switchable?
1) Longer leads (and one or two more of them).
2) Eliminate switchback situations like the ones seen in this layout that involve switching only one car at a time or backing the engine into the Bessemer House(!) to switch the Blast Furnace. These industries can’t realistically be switched without additional leads, dragging the cars down to the mainline runaround, or both.
Building this as an HO 4X8 is a bit of a stunt, and while it creates an impressive scene of large structures in a small area, it compromises operation. In the same square footage, a much more realistically operating layout could be designed.
But if you’re more interested in modeling than realistic operation, it may not be an issue for you. John Glaab likely knows more about steel mills than I do, but there are some operational basics that pretty much hold true whatever the industry – in my humble opinion, of course.
Best of luck with your layout.
And if I were to cut the 4x8 and make a 2x16?
g44p44And if I were to cut the 4x8 and make a 2x16?
It depends on the rest of the layout, how it is placed in the room, aisle locations, etc., but often a longer shelf like that would offer the opportunity to help the operating flow by allowing longer leads; overlap of leads, industries, and runarounds; etc.
Another option is to wrap the running tracks around one end of an island layout. This switching layout is an HO 4X8 because I acceeded to a publication's insistence on that form-factor, but would work even better as a 5X9 or 5X10.
And of course, there's no rule that says one is limited to single 4X8 "Sacred Sheet" in any case.
Best of luck.
AKA the birthplace of Fowlstuff...I mean Falstaff Beer.
I have a brewery complex that is the biggest industry on my industrial switching layout (ISL). The way I see it, selective compression is achieved on a brewery by selecting the buildings that: 1) are most typically rail served (e. g. finished product, spent grains, barley shipments, etc.) and 2) most identify a brewery, such as a large building that houses the main brewing process, as well as the other supporting buildings. I have studied breweries and they come in all shapes and sizes, from large brewing complexes, such as the main one for Coors in Golden, Colorado, to the medium-sized Budweiser facility at Ft. Collins Colorado. to the small, craft beer New Belgium brewery, also in Ft. Collins, Colorado. There's also a fairly large Miller Brewing complex in Trenton, Ohio (at least there was when I lived in Ohio).
The point to all this is that you can take the aerial drawing that you have and creatively selectively compress it to whatever fits your layout or piece of real estate that you want to fit it into on your layout and make it convincing
More info on Lemp brewery
http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/263357.aspx
DSchmittMore info on Lemp brewery http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/263357.aspx
That thread has a lot of speculation -- some of which might be quite correct. But note also that Sanborn insurance maps are often only rough approximations of prototype rail trackage. Their focus was the risk of loss for structures -- so those are pretty accurate. But I've seen a number of real-life cases where actual photographs showed that the details of the railroad trackage differed significantly from the Sanborn map.
So the real thing may not have been as much of a puzzle as the Sanborn maps suggest. And, as suggested on the thread, various means of moving cars without traditional locomotives might have been used, which are tough to replicate in the model in smaller scales.
Dschmitt:
Clickable link.