The CN ballast thickness from the top of the sub-ballast section to the bottom of the ties should be 2.6 mm. I will use Grade 2 Walton shale that will pass through a 2-mm-dia sieve hole but not a 1-mm-dia sieve hole.
Just if you are wondering, I have 5 grades of Walton shale. Grade 1 is ideal for gravel and concrete filler, and Grades 4 and 5 for ore loads and scenery construction. Grade 1 can pass through a 1-mm-dia sieve hole. Here is a picture of Grade 1.
Finally, a real challenge! HO scale spike is about 1.8 mm long below the head and 0.18 mm square. Criteria: must be able to make a lot of them easily, they must be strong enough to support the tracks and the weights of locomotives and heavy loads, must not crack the white birch ties, and must work on curves where centrifugal forces are also encountered.
OldSchoolScratchbuilder Finally, a real challenge! HO scale spike is about 1.8 mm long below the head and 0.18 mm square. Criteria: must be able to make a lot of them easily, they must be strong enough to support the tracks and the weights of locomotives and heavy loads, must not crack the white birch ties, and must work on curves where centrifugal forces are also encountered.
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrain Aren't you overcomplicating things? Just a bit? Rich
Aren't you overcomplicating things? Just a bit?
Nope. Got the wood, got the rails, got the sub-ballast, got the ballast, have the CN specs and drawings, band saw will arrive next week, and several ideas for spikes. Have all the track wiring components including solderless contacts. Already cutting the rail bed into the foam following the CN specs regarding shoulder angles, bedding width and depth dimensions, etc. Now I truly am learning about real track!
Scratch, I'm talking about designing spikes that "must be strong enough to support the tracks and the weights of locomotives and heavy loads, must not crack the white birch ties, and must work on curves where centrifugal forces are encountered".
This is HO scale modeling, not a real railroad. Either HO spikes will support the loads or else the HO scale locomotives and rolling stock won't be able to deal with the weight of the loads.
You are overthinking things when you get to the point that you are trying to design HO scale spikes to support such loads.
I have thousands of rusty staples between 30 and 60 years old that can be cut and installed on every tie, using my drill press to cut fine holes. Piece of cake in principle. I can do all the centrifugal force and weight calculations - I'm a physicist and this is a first year university problem easily solved!
The only forces involved in the calculation of required spike strength, numbers, and distribution are locomotive/car weight (gravity) and the velocity-dependent normal component of centrifugal force at the contact points between the track and wheels. For curves, CN has a spec for rail heights (inside vs outside). This reduces the centrifugal component depending on the slope - also easy to calculate.
OldSchoolScratchbuilder I have thousands of rusty staples between 30 and 60 years old that can be cut and installed on every tie, using my drill press to cut fine holes. Piece of cake in principle. I can do all the centrifugal force and weight calculations - I'm a physicist and this is a first year university problem easily solved!
As a physicist, I want to know what force is acting on the rail and 'spikes'. That's what physicists do - we crave to understand the unknown - engineers on the other hand use their centuries old rules of thumb. I'm not using real spikes, I'm using tiny segments (few milimeters) of staples and so there is no rule of thumb. So when my heaviest locomotive rounds a bend at speed, will the tiny staples give way? I'm going to know the answer before I use the staples.
OldSchoolScratchbuilder As a physicist, I want to know what force is acting on the rail and 'spikes'. That's what physicists do - we crave to understand the unknown - engineers on the other hand use their centuries old rules of thumb. I'm not using real spikes, I'm using tiny segments (few milimeters) of staples and so there is no rule of thumb. So when my heaviest locomotive rounds a bend at speed, will the tiny staples give way? I'm going to know the answer before I use the staples.
I'm glad that I don't live next door to you......or do I?
I better check.
@rich My wife says similar things to me. Like the day she came home and I was recording the sounds of Rice Krispies in the toilet - had all the audio gear rigged up. The main result of my acoustic analysis proved that this cereal does have snaps, crackles, and pops. I got some snickers from managers when I presented this experiment at a defence seminar - they stopped laughing when I successfully used the results in a sonar experiment on a sea trial in the Gulf of Mexico!
Just looked up a related problem in a first year mechanics text. Problem: A car is travelling at a speed of 55 mi/hr along a banked highway having a radius of curvature of 500 ft. At what angle should the road be banked in order that a zero friction force is needed for the car to go around this curve? Answer: All the formulas in the chapter will provide the solution. In my case, the friction in this problem is replaced by the vertical force component on a spike versus how strong the spike is anchored in the white birch.
The last I checked, this is a Model RAILROAD forum, and not a blog on geology or physics or metalurgy. Surely there is a forum out there that would be much more interested in your project - as evidenced by the lack of comments from the other members of this forum.
I'm reminded of a saying a VP once told me..... "I really don't care about your labor pains, just show me the baby" !
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
mobilman44 The last I checked, this is a Model RAILROAD forum, and not a blog on geology or physics or metalurgy. Surely there is a forum out there that would be much more interested in your project - as evidenced by the lack of comments from the other members of this forum. I'm reminded of a saying a VP once told me..... "I really don't care about your labor pains, just show me the baby" !
why are you reading it then. Just ignore it until the baby pops out. If the moderators want me to leave, I'll do that no problem.
I guess I'm just attracted to the unusual, out of place, and blatant space consuming threads. I'll try to stay away.................
mobilman44 I guess I'm just attracted to the unusual, out of place, and blatant space consuming threads. I'll try to stay away.................
wow! I certainly would never say that about anyone's work. if your goal is for me to leave, then you have just succeeded. Final post - enjoy modelling everyone!
OldSchoolScratchbuilder @rich My wife says similar things to me. Like the day she came home and I was recording the sounds of Rice Krispies in the toilet - had all the audio gear rigged up. The main result of my acoustic analysis proved that this cereal does have snaps, crackles, and pops.
@rich My wife says similar things to me. Like the day she came home and I was recording the sounds of Rice Krispies in the toilet - had all the audio gear rigged up. The main result of my acoustic analysis proved that this cereal does have snaps, crackles, and pops.
OldSchoolScratchbuilder mobilman44 I guess I'm just attracted to the unusual, out of place, and blatant space consuming threads. I'll try to stay away................. wow! I certainly would never say that about anyone's work. if your goal is for me to leave, then you have just succeeded. Final post - enjoy modelling everyone!
Sorry to hear you are leaving.
I’ve read richhotrain and mobileman44 posts over the years learning from both and respect them as forum members.
But I have also enjoyed your postings finding them interesting, educational, and yes sometimes humorous. You are certainly not the average “joe off the block”. There are over 4,600 views of your posts so I’m not alone.
Why don’t those of you who find these posts objectionable use the unsubscribe button.
Just My " target=""> Worth
Bob
Don't Ever Give Up
superbe But I have also enjoyed your postings finding them interesting, educational, and yes sometimes humorous. You are certainly not the average “joe off the block”. There are over 4,600 views of your posts so I’m not alone.
Old School,
I should clarify...... I do not find your thread objectionable per se. Your photography is quite good, and your methodology is unique and somewhat interesting. I guess I'm just anxious to see some results - some actual layout progress.
Like I wrote, I am "history" as far as this thread is concerned.
I am going to build the prototype CN Industrial railbed starting today so I'll post that part of my layout in the prototype forum. If you are not interested in modelling the real CN railbed please don't bother reading my posts there.
Old School
I enjoy seeing your ideas and work. Lots of original thinking, but so far not much I could actually use. (I've also enjoyed another original thinker, the Broadway Lion, who is at the opposite end of the complexity spectrum.) Starting with wood, rocks and F=MA, derive a model railroad; what a concept. The engineer in me appreciates all your little experiments to prove that these wild ideas actually work. When one has time constraints, commercially available components are the normal solution. But building a model railroad is often just a journey and I enjoy your explanations of a road less taken.
Grinnell
PS: Rice crispies as sonar chaff, I love it, what a Hoot!
All three subjects have been touched upon in Model Railrod magazines over the years. Geology is particually relevent, although beautiful model railroads have been built without detailed knowledge of it.
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
I'm not so sure that lack of replies indicates lack of interest in this instance. I think that a lot of us are interested and are following to see how this progresses. I for one hope that the OP continues to post since I want to see the product. Let's not be so critical and allow the OP some room to show us his efforts.
Joe
OldSchoolScratchbuilder. My great grandfather was a sleeping car porter on the Intercollonial Railway run between Halifax and Montreal.
Canadian Sleeping Car Porters
https://humanrights.ca/blog/sleeping-car-porters
JoeinPA I'm not so sure that lack of replies indicates lack of interest in this instance. I think that a lot of us are interested and are following to see how this progresses. I for one hope that the OP continues to post since I want to see the product. Let's not be so critical and allow the OP some room to show us his efforts. Joe
Mike
richhotrain OldSchoolScratchbuilder @rich My wife says similar things to me. Like the day she came home and I was recording the sounds of Rice Krispies in the toilet - had all the audio gear rigged up. The main result of my acoustic analysis proved that this cereal does have snaps, crackles, and pops. LOL Rich
LOL
Water Level Route That's the boat I'm in. Looking forward to more. Though I should not have been drinking coffee when I read the Rice Krispies in the toilet post. That was a close one!
That's the boat I'm in. Looking forward to more. Though I should not have been drinking coffee when I read the Rice Krispies in the toilet post. That was a close one!
richhotrain richhotrain OldSchoolScratchbuilder @rich My wife says similar things to me. Like the day she came home and I was recording the sounds of Rice Krispies in the toilet - had all the audio gear rigged up. The main result of my acoustic analysis proved that this cereal does have snaps, crackles, and pops. LOL Rich Water Level Route That's the boat I'm in. Looking forward to more. Though I should not have been drinking coffee when I read the Rice Krispies in the toilet post. That was a close one! I'm afraid that I am responsible for that reply from Old School Scratch Builder. I can no longer look at my powder room in the same way that I used to. Rich
I'm afraid that I am responsible for that reply from Old School Scratch Builder. I can no longer look at my powder room in the same way that I used to.
OldSchoolScratchbuilder ..... That's what physicists do - we crave to understand the unknown - engineers on the other hand use their centuries old rules of thumb. ....
..... That's what physicists do - we crave to understand the unknown - engineers on the other hand use their centuries old rules of thumb. ....
Ouch!
Jim Lee (geotechnical engineer)
JimL OldSchoolScratchbuilder ..... That's what physicists do - we crave to understand the unknown - engineers on the other hand use their centuries old rules of thumb. .... Ouch! Jim Lee (geotechnical engineer)
Sorry Jim. Lol