On my layout it's not the foam that I'd be worried about when it comes to flammability. It's the wadded up newspaper that I made the hills out of and the brown wrapping paper that covers it that would be far more dangerous. Would the inspector complain about that? If he would then no one could own any paper materials either and they are far more flammable than blue or pink foam.
- Harry
HarryHotspur wrote:I called the local fire marshall to come inspect my layout to make sure I was in compliance. He said the layout was fine, but unfortunately he noticed a mattress and some pillows which had the tags removed. He said he was gonna notify the Feds. I'm afraid I'm in big trouble now.
It's not illegal to remove the tags after purchasing the item. It's specifically required to be there before purchase to notify the purchaser of any specific health/safety ratings, hazards, and issues they may encounter with the pillow.
This space reserved for SpaceMouse's future presidential candidacy advertisements
ROFLMAO!!!
(Those tags may be removed by the consumer - you just can't resell the item without them.)
Back to the original subject. In my earlier lifetime, I was a facilities inspector for the USAF (just one of the really odd jobs I've held) Even though the Air Force had some really rigid codes, there was one area where use of foam was widespread. Every tool box was lined with the stuff, with a little pocket for each tool. Nobody ever suggested that it should be considered a fire hazard or covered with anything.
Sounds to me as if you got a joker with an agenda. Maybe he had some bad memories of failing at model railroading, or maybe he objects to, "Grown men playing with children's toys." (I actually had a Marine officer say that to me once!) I'm willing to wager that he was shooting from the hip, and that his supervisors and the rulebooks won't back him up. I would certainly get a second opinion (at the local building department) before acting on one individual's spoken word. Even if he gave you a written notice of violation (did he?) it can still be questioned.
Even as I type, I am in a room which is an extreme fire hazard! In addition to file cabinets full of paperwork, 64 linear feet of wall-mounted bookshelves (well stuffed,) a daybed (with the usual bedding,) wooden furniture, a closetful of non-fireproofed clothing and some paper posters in wooden frames, there are TWO PIECES OF PINK FOAM!!! (Each piece is approximately 1.5 x 12 inches, and 10mm thick) Egad!
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964, with foam roadbed on steel benchwork)
tomikawaTT wrote:Sounds to me as if you got a joker with an agenda. Maybe he had some bad memories of failing at model railroading, or maybe he objects to, "Grown men playing with children's toys." (I actually had a Marine officer say that to me once!) I'm willing to wager that he was shooting from the hip, and that his supervisors and the rulebooks won't back him up.
Sounds to me as if you got a joker with an agenda. Maybe he had some bad memories of failing at model railroading, or maybe he objects to, "Grown men playing with children's toys." (I actually had a Marine officer say that to me once!) I'm willing to wager that he was shooting from the hip, and that his supervisors and the rulebooks won't back him up.
Nail on head. Or maybe he's a member of FFoA (Foam Fighters of America). Their motto is, "I built my railroad with blood, sweat, and plywood, and by Golly, no one's gonna do it any easier." And their slogan is. "When I was your age, I had to walk to school ... 5 miles each way ... thru rain, snow, sleet ..."
BTW, I called my attorney, and he said you were right about the tags. I feel a lot better now.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
tomikawaTT wrote: SNIP Even as I type, I am in a room which is an extreme fire hazard! In addition to file cabinets full of paperwork, 64 linear feet of wall-mounted bookshelves (well stuffed,) SNIPChuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964, with foam roadbed on steel benchwork)
SNIP
Even as I type, I am in a room which is an extreme fire hazard! In addition to file cabinets full of paperwork, 64 linear feet of wall-mounted bookshelves (well stuffed,) SNIP
Chuck, I know you are one of the smarter guys on this forum. You and I both know that you can throw a book in the campfire and it will burn as slow as plywood.
Neither of us wants to be in a room full of bare foam in a fire.
Joe
To the few guys here who seem to need to bash the member of the public safety agency in question -
Depending on local codes, this could be a very real situation. While free-standing and self supporting benchwork may find itself exempt, benchwork that has been structurally attached to the wall to be "permanent" may find itself included in certain codes such as how insulating foam can be used in building construction. It's a tight line, but it is possible.
One of the big things with these foams is that many of them don't support combustion very well. They will burn but you're more likely to see the effects of a smoldering fire and thick amounts of black and toxic smoke. Not to say that white smoke isn't toxic, or it's any better from you, but you get the point. Foam is filled with lots of Methyl-Ethyl-Funky-Bad-Stuff with so many letters in the different chemicals' names that you could play Word Jumble for hours.
What's most likely happening here is a partial misunderstanding on all sides, as well as lack of detailed and specific information about the exact situation this occurred in. Before I was a career railroader, I had a career in firefighting. I've done the same building inspections, had the same complaints about different interpretations of the code, and it all works out in the end. Do your research, don't over-react, and keep level headed. Request a meeting with the inspector, and ask to see the codes. Tell him you want to make your apartment safer, and would like to look at alternatives so that you don't lose all your work.
-Granite(Former FF 1/2, HazMat Technician, EMT)
GraniteRailroader wrote:To the few guys here who seem to need to bash the member of the public safety agency in question -
If somebody can provide a citation any regulation, code, or law in the original poster's jurisdiction, then I'll reconsider. Until then (and it won't happen) I say the guy is an officious jerk. Better yet, if the original poster will post the guy's name and dept., I'll call him up and ask him.
What BS. I agree either the inspector has a god complex or someone's out to get you. My 5 X 12 layout only has 2" of foam on plywood plus a small hill made out of it. I'd be more concerned with my stacks of model train magazines under my layout .
i better watch it i made a 5 X 9 layout for the local museum using blue and pink plus woodland scenic's risers (if so i didn't know!
I began on the assumption that it was likely toxic fumes generated from the combustion of the material, and that when permanently attached to a structure, would be considered subject to building codes.
However, I found this:
Material Safety Data Sheet
Blue rigid cellular foam board.
HAZARDOUS COMBUSTION PRODUCTS: Under fire conditions polymers decompose. The smoke may contain polymer fragments of varying compositions in addition to unidentified toxic and/or irritating compounds. In smoldering or flaming conditions, carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide and carbon are generated. Hazardous combustion products may include, and are not I limited to, hydrogen fluoride, hydrogen chloride and hydrogen bromide. Studies have shown that the products of combustion of this foam are not more acutely toxic than the products of combustion of common building materials such as wood.
http://engineering.union.edu/~rapoffa/MER214/laboratories/lab7documents/Styrofoam%20MSDS.pdf
Okay, everyone. I think we've sufficiently talked this one through and then some. jsoderq's situation might be a unique one because of where he lives and resides.
The best each of us can do is to talk to and verify from our own townships and municipalities what is acceptable and legal as far as the use of exposed extrude foam in our homes - albeit attached to the wall or freestanding.
Let's move on...
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.