How Do They "Look" Though?

[MTCarpenter]

The "Why "scale" can be such a difficult concept..." thread got me brave enough to ask a question I've been meaning to ask for some time now.

I have an ArisoCraft 0-4-0, which I like, but I've been looking at some of the Bachmann engines of late - like the 2-6-0's, the 2-8-0's and the 4-6-0's.

So I was wondering, how "bad" or "good" would a 1:29 scale engine look next to a 1:20.3 engine if running on the same layout?  I'm not a rivet counter for sure, but I want everything to look somewhat similar in size.  Am I missing something between standard vs. narrow with these engines?  If someone has a side by side picture (not necessarily these engines in particular, but the scales mentioned) it would help me tremendously (I'm a really visual learner), or if there is a thread somewhere already, please direct me to it.

Also, I can't find the minimum radius or diameter that the Bachmann's will run on, so if someone has that, it would be a great help as well.

Lastly, thank to everyone on this website.  You've taught me so much by seeing and reading what you've all been up to and you all seem really patient with questions from newbie’s like me.

[vsmith]

I think the biggest effect would be if you had scale figurines on each engine, then the size difference is striking, even the proto PRR 0-4-0 in reality was a big engine compared to its NG cousins. Narrow gauge engines and stock were always small, often barely able to stand inside by todays standards.

Also, Bmann Spectrums: the 2-6-0 with modifications will do a 5 foot dia. as will the 2-8-0 both with much complaining, 6 foot dia. is considered minimum, 8 foot dia. better. The 4-6-0 will run on 4 foot dia. no problem but looks better on the wider diameters.

[cacole]

If the two different scale engines are on separate portions of your layout that are not close to each other, the difference is size is not that apparent; however, if they are close to each other the difference is very obvious.

The Bachmann Spectrum engines and rolling stock are 1:20.3 scale and are quite large compared to something that is 1:29.  Other than a Heartland Doozie Rail Bus and a live steam Mimi, everything I run is Bachmann.  The Mimi and Bachmann engines are practically the same size, but the Doozie seems toylike if it is side-by-side or close to one of the Bachmann engines.  Of course, a bus was quite small compared to a steam engine, too.

[altterrain]

Matt,

 All my rolling stock runs 1:22.5 to 1:29, buildings, figure, vehicles 1:22.5 to 1:25 and they all look pretty reasonable together. I hosted a club meeting last fall and a club member brought over his Bachmann Connie (the middle one in Kevin's pic). It easily dwarfed everything else. This a pic of it - 

 

 

-Brian 

[FJ and G]

Why not run them separately?

 

I run 1:48 on my 32mm track and at other times run 1:13.7 on my 32 mm track but not at same time. If I were to do so, I'd likely get a stroke or go blind

[Tom The Brat]

I run my Bachmann 10 Wheeler Anniversary Edition next to my 1:29 equipment. If you look too close, the tender is a tad wide. Standing up, it looks quite fine. Steam locos varied in size, and the Annie isn't too much bigger than my 1:29th locos. Anybody commenting on it being too wide gets a hard stare over my glasses.

[kstrong]

There's a lot of flexibility in terms of scale, and how things "look" together. I've written on this topic a few times in GR, and it's the subject of my "Staff Corner" article in the current issue. Scale is relative.

Take a standard Bachmann 1:22.5 box car, for example. Without having the exact dimensions at my fingertips, I remember measuring it in 1:29, 1:24, and 1:20. In all three scales, I could find reference to box cars that matched the dimensions of that car. So, while the car is marketed as one scale, it's actually suitable for a number of them.

How they "look" together is entirely subjective. The cab on the Aristo 0-4-0 is a touch on the small side to be able to accommodate a 1:22 figure, but proportionally the locomotive doesn't look out of place with the 1:22 equipment. Do some minor work to change the proportions of the cab, and you've got a loco that would look very credible in those circumstances. That, I think, is the key. So long as there's consistency where people routinely inhabit (cabs, cabooses, passenger cars), then everything else can really be as big or small as it wants.



The one consistent thing in all three of these locos is that the cabs are all about the same size. That's the one feature that ties them all to a single scale.

Later,

K

[Great Western]

Greetings MT,

   There have been helpful comments, from some of the best I add, to your question.

    I run two Bachmann Anniversary 4-6-0 locos, and two Aristo-craft diesels (an RS3 and a centre cab which is based on the RS3 shell).  I have Aristo-craft 1:29 and Bachmann Big Hauler 1:22.5 stock.  Actually the stock mixes quite well, but I no longer mix it - I run Bachmann trains or Aristo-craft ones.  The only mixing is with the diesels, I tend to run them with either stock and this does not look out of place.

   I get the impression that not all locomotive scales mix easily but I chose my stock to fit my small railroad.

   One thing, however, is that living on this side of the Atlantic,  many - myself included - have never seen the real locos and visitors usually are enthralled by what they see and do not question very much.

   Above all have fun with you railroad and when all is said and done - your'e the boss you make the choice.
 

[MTCarpenter]

Wow!  Thanks for all the replies.  I hope one day I'll be able to chime in like you folks for someone new to the hobby.

vsmith - Thanks for the radius info

cacole - Do you have a side by side pic of your engines?

altterrain - Thanks for the info.  The pic you've posted is pretty inspirational!  I'm actually thinking of getting an engine like yours (shay?) down the road.

FJ and G - "Why not run them separately?"  Well...um...great question!  Never thought about it that way.

Tom The Brat - "Anybody commenting on it being too wide gets a hard stare over my glasses."  As probably well deserved!  Thanks Tom!!

kstrong - Dude, second article I read (I read the letters first ).  As soon as I saw it, I laughed because I had just made this post.  Really appreciated it, and I'm starting to get a feel for where I want to go with my layout better now between this thread, your article, and the Rooster Creek layout.  They seem to have successfully melded many different scales and it looks great.  Anyway, thanks for the reply.

Great Western - "One thing, however, is that living on this side of the Atlantic,  many - myself included - have never seen the real locos and visitors usually are enthralled by what they see and do not question very much." border="0" /> "  Hmmm...  This is an excellent point.  Do you have a pic of your two engines side by side?  And thanks for the info!!

HA!  So this is good info for sure.  I also dug out another thread in the Railway design, construction, and gardening section dealing with this a bit as well: http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/1077575/ShowPost.aspx

So, two more questions:

1.) the Bachmann 1:22.5 engines are ALL considered "narrow gauge" and all the Ariso 1:29 are considered "standard gauge"?  Is this right?  I understand the -concept- about why narrow and standard gauge exist in proto railroads, but I'm just trying to work out the scale thing in my head.  Sort of.  Maybe...

2.) Can anyone recommend a -picture- book of different types of prototype engines and how they look?  Maybe even a little history with them?  I'm thinking a little research would help me get a feel for the look of a proto narrow gauge next to a proto standard gauge.

Again, thanks to everyone and their patience with me on this!!

[altterrain]

Matt,

on question 1 - all Bachmann locos are 3' narrow gauge. Most are the correct scale of 1:20.3. The ten wheeler (4-6-0) annie and big hauler editions are 1:22.5 scale because the copied the scale of LGB initially (based on European 1 meter narrow gauge). All my narrow guage is the incorrect scales of 1:22.5 and 1:24 made by Bachmann, LGB, AristoCraft Classics line, Hartland Locomotive Works and the USA trains "American series". Yes, everything AristoCraft makes except for the Aristo Classics line like the C-16 and assorted cars (same for USA trains) is standard gauge 1:29 scale.

on question 2 - lots of great books out there. Most of mine were gifts or picked up at book discount outlets. Lots of great online sources to like - http://steamlocomotive.com/, http://www.gearedsteam.com/, and even Wikipedia.

 Unfortunately, my Dunkirk is one of a kind but Bachmann makes some great little Shays, Climaxes, and Heislers

 -Brian

 

 

[Great Western]

Hi again MT,

                   I am a newbie really, I only built my railroad last summer.  It is a small  line, about 150 feet in length with four sidings.  Because it is IN the garden - as oposed to a railway WITH a garden - is what makes it more interesting to my wife, family and visitors.  I am the only train nut around here! 

  As far as the plants, and some of the stone/rock features are concerned, my wife has been very helpful and creative; it has therefore become a joint venture.  You will see in the American magazine Garden Railways (who sponsor this Forum) that many of the lovely railways featured are joint ventures in one way or another.
 

[MTCarpenter]

I want to thank everyone again for all the information they've given me in this thread.  So I kinda went out and answered my own request of seeing them side by side, and bought a 4-6-0 Bachmann set.

 

Here's the side by side of the Aristo 0-4-0 with the Bachmann 4-6-0:

Here's my son (3-1/2) in complete control.  He can start, slow down, and stop the train by himself.

He doesn't like trains at all, does he?

 

[GearDrivenSteam]

I agree wholeheartedly with vsmith. I've had my Aristo-Craft Lil Critter (1/29) and my Bachmann 45 tonner (1:20.3) side by side. I think they look fine next to each other. BUT, if you pay close attention to the drivers, there is a pretty big difference. I'm going to run them together, as I'm not a big rivet counter myself...not that there's anything wrong with that. Everything has it's place. That's just not the kind of railroad I'm going to build. Now as for figures, I probably will not use anything as small as 1/29, unless I use the smaller scale figures for children, which can be pulled off nicely.