As a new comer to live steam it has most helpful to have a friend who had experience. The Ida that I purchased second hand had never been fired when I purchased it. Basically the previous owners just did not understand how it worked. I knew I always wanted to get into live steam but, understood that going it alone would be difficult. Lucky for me, I had Captain Perry as a friend. Under his guidance and others I have learned a lot about just running my engine. It is easy to get in over our heads however; we can’t learn it any younger. With some very armature modeling skills I built a cab and tender that suits me better than the stock one. And I have the parts to install remote control. This is about having fun, but not at another’s expense.
So what I am saying is--- find a group of people that are into live steam and go to the live steam meets. I find that these people are always willing to point me in the right direction and share what they have learned too. Most of all I hope this tread has not discouraged anybody that is thinking about live steam. Because it really is a blast to fire up the little engine. Hook on a car or two and send it down the line.
mrdeere
I have not seen all the varients of the "Ruby" but...I think they are basically similar in design and operation.
Frame: My First, a ruby kit had a frame made made up of two cut steel plates, the next (red ruby not kit) had a frame of folded steel. The third a Porter styled machine again had a cut steel plate frame.
Cylinders: Two types of cylinders have been used. the oringinal "small" cylinders came with the kit and the Red Ruby. the "Porter" came with the new larger cylinders. I as able to switch the porter's larger cylinders onto my old kit ruby without difficulties.
Valves: all have 3 piston valves. one for each cylinder and a directon valve. the actual valve spindles are all the same. they all seem to use the same threaded hole and are all interchangable even from engine to engine. all have the little groove cut in the spindle for adjusting the valves.
Running gear: All seem the same... wheels valve gear etc. except: the "Red Ruby" has a one peice valve gear eccentric, the other two have two peice eccentrics. the "Porter" has a cross head and guide.
Boiler: My kit ruby has a slightly different arrangement than the newer models. the boiler has three fittings: under the sand dome is the filler plug, under the steam dome is the safety valve, in the cab is a block with the throttle valve and a place for a steam gauge. the othe two engines have the filler in the cab where the throttle is located. All engines have the ability to accept a pressure gauge, The Porter came with one. the boilers are all the same diameter and length but are only decorated differently.
The new porter derived models including the Porter, Iuki, Forneys share the larger cylinders and cross head.
I like to kit bash my Rubys. the Kit and Red Ruby were changed into forneys in the Maine tradition. the kit now looks as much like a Portland or Hinkley Engine as I could make it and the Red Ruby is now in the image of WW&F #10 a Vulcan former plantation engine. See my videos on this site.
Winnegance and Quebec Railway
Eric Schade Gen'l Manager
Any ideas on the Ruby vs the Ida? The tanks are different, but are there any operational differences? I was going to start with a kit, but after all the comments, I'm going to start with as assembled engine and just learn how to operate it. Then how to build it.
And thanks, James, for the life advice - I couldn't agree more. I've been married for thirty years (to the same women...) and have raised three girls, so I can vouch that yours points are well made.
AMTRAK_EXPRESS The wheels do not move freely. When I was assembling the locomotive, I had a very difficult time inserting the axle into the axle hole. I had to sand the axle hole in order for it to fit.
The wheels do not move freely. When I was assembling the locomotive, I had a very difficult time inserting the axle into the axle hole. I had to sand the axle hole in order for it to fit.
Having a good running live steam locomotive is akin to having a good relationship with a woman. I may get into trouble here, but this is all "G" rated - I will refer to both in the feminine:
1. Be Patient. A quality relationship with her is not born from hurry.
2. Observe. She speaks a different language than you do. Watch her actions carefully, try to learn the nuances of what she is telling you.
3. Get to know her well. This is part of "Observe" - The more you know, the better you will be able to respond as needed. Conduct research as needed.
4. Handle with care. She is delicate; something to care for properly and with respect.
The first problem to work on is to get the wheels moving freely (we are just talking live steam here). Any sort of model mechanism MUST move freely, no binding, no drag. A steam loco is particularly suseptible to any drag. So, divide and conquer. Take off the side rods, see if the axles spin easily. If one or both do not, carefully disassemble and rectify the problem. Make sure the bearings are clean. Make sure the valve gear and pistons move freely. Put the rods back on and make sure the engine will roll easily. If it doesn't, there may be a problem with quartering or axle alignment. Just do some exploratory surgery and report back to us.
Once it rolls freely, it is time to test it on air. This will let you determine if the valves are set correctly without the hassle of firing it up. You will also be able to adjust things without burning your fingers.
After that... it is time to steam it up. But first, take a look at it as I suggested above. Do not hurry; take your time; if you get frustrated - Walk Away! Steam engines do not respond well to anger, but will thrive on a gently touch. Let us know what you discover.
- James (A guy who has spent all of his adult life doting on his wife and two live steam locomotives).
Hmm.... this thread is four years old. The original poster only posted 3 times total, all on this thead. I'd say it's a safe bet he is long gone!
Greg
Visit my site: http://www.elmassian.com - lots of tips on locos, rolling stock and more.
Click here for Greg's web site
I was disapointed with the attitude on this thread. An obvious newcomer who was discouraged got first ridiculed then further discouraged before getting any useful information. He seems to have lost interest which is sad!
Certainly live steam is a bit trickier than electric but is within the ability of anyone who is interested enough to give it a go! the pointers given were useful and could have been accomplished by Mr Amtak given proper encouragement.
I think he would first need to make sure the parts move freely, then adjust the valves then air test the engine (which is tricky if you do not have an air compressor...I used to use an old bicycle tire pump with good success) finally he can test fire the locomotive and run it on steam.
All these steps are quite do-able by new modelers and we should try to help and encourage him in his endevours and keep the wise cracks to ourselves. As a Ruby kit builder and kitbasher I respect the humble little Ruby as an excellent starter and an engine for years of fun! The kit is a great way to learn some basic mechanics and how steam engines work. Mistakes and problems are part of that learning process and not a subject for ridicule.
Keep on Mr Amtrak! have fun and dont let the trash talk get to you!
I don't know if anyone is still looking at this thread, but I am planning on getting a Ruby, and I was going to get a kit, but I've decided my first live steam should be RTR. We'll see how that goes. thanks for all the input and advice.
ghelman wrote:I sure am glad I read this thread. Many times I have thought I would like to give live steam a try. I had no idea it was the kind of work descirbed by many. It must be a labor of love.
George,
live steam is not difficult! and the vast majority of Live Steam locomotives are bought "ready to run"...this thread is talking about putting together a live steam engine from a kit...totally different aspect of the live steam hobby! ;) and an aspect most live steamers never even bother with..so dont let this thread scare uyou away! live steam is very fun! and its not hard...just buy a Ruby (or any other live steam locomotive) ready to run right out of the box! which most are..
I only bought a Ruby kit because of the price..at $250 I couldnt pass it up... but it was a challenge, and my Ruby still doesnt run very smoothy..which I totally attribute to the skill of the builder! (or lack of skill I should say,) not the locomotive itself..Rubys run great...mine just still needs a bit of tweaking.."factory assembled" engines dont have this problem.
Scot
AMTRAK_EXPRESS wrote: I am completely stressed out that my Accucraft Ruby Kit does not run. I spent 5 hours assembling the locomotive and it does not run.The train wouldn't move at all. Smoke would come out of the stack and bubbles would come out of the piping in the cab.
I am completely stressed out that my Accucraft Ruby Kit does not run. I spent 5 hours assembling the locomotive and it does not run.
The train wouldn't move at all. Smoke would come out of the stack and bubbles would come out of the piping in the cab.
Sorry I had to bring this post back to life but.....
This is the reason why Accucraft stopped making the Ruby Kits. Too many people bought them and got in over their head. I spent over 80 hours rebuilding my ruby not including the work to reverse the eccentrics and to retime. It was worth every hour.
By the child like response he knew nothing about what a live steam kit takes and that it goes to show that yes anyone can buy one but no anyone cant own one. Thank god he didn't buy a Aster kit, 5 hours HAH Try 150 or more to build the Berkshire for a newbie.
Anyway with bubbles coming from the steam lines that seems to be overfilled and as far as nothing moving it was probally hydrolocked. On top of all that the timing is probally way off since it was never air tested.
I also wonder if he did not see that the bushings are keyed to they do not spin.
Anyone need Ruby parts???
This one will probally see its day on Ebay....
You know your very right,
It only takes one time to make a mistake, but so many more times to make an advancement.
Comgrats to you
A whole 5 hours wasted assembling the kit? I spent more time than that reading the instructions, downloading additiional information from various live steam forums, and studying everything I could find about the Ruby before I even considered purchasing one.
Since you didn't fill out your user profile data, we have no idea where you are or how old you are, but you obviously are in too much of a rush and expect instant gratification. Sorry, but it sounds to me like live steam isn't for you. You must take you time and test every aspect of assembly several times before moving on to the next step.
"Its ridiculous. I assembled it and why isn't it ready to run? Waste of my time and money. Ridiculous."
Yes, it is, that you would expect it to.
Be prepared to spend months learning, a full teardown once or twice, buggerizing around every time you want to run it.......
This is not the same as an old CKD kit.
This actually takes some skill.
The Home of Articulated Ugliness
AMTRAK_EXPRESS wrote: also, the flame in the boiler tank goes out every few minutes. I always have to re-light the flame. Turning up the gas flow does not help at all. Why is this so?
also, the flame in the boiler tank goes out every few minutes. I always have to re-light the flame. Turning up the gas flow does not help at all. Why is this so?
sounds like a clogged jet.
I had the same problem with my ruby kit, and its apparently quite common, especially with the kit-built rubys, because there are lots of opportunities, while building the kit, for small particles to get in the works and clog the jet.
the fix for a clogged jet is to remove the jet/nozzle, stick the end of the jet on the butane can nozzle, and blow butane gas through the nozzle backwards..(in the opposite direction the gas would flow during normal operation) this will clear out anything blocking the hole.
Amtrak,
I know its frustrating..I built the ruby kit too! but the problem isnt your kit..the kit is fine..it sounds to me like you have rushed things too much and havent done the slow, meticulous, very precise and carefull build that live steamers require. they are precision machines! they require precision in building..
you have to test it on air before you can run it on gas. if the wheels dont turn freely, that has to be fixed before you can even think of lighting the burner.
live steam is not an "instant gratification" hobby! ;)
if you dont like to tinker and fine-tune little mechanical parts, then its not the hobby for you!
It can be done! you can get a great running little engine from your Ruby kit! but you dont have the right mindset yet...you are getting mad at it, that wont work...it wont fix itself...you have to take the time to figure out what is wrong, then make several small adjustments until the whole system works together..
first step..remove the mainrod connecting the drivers to the cylinders, but leave the side rods connecting the drivers to each other.
do the wheels roll freely when you push the chassis?
if not, you need to figure out why, then fix it.
My Ruby kit has been running a few years now, and I still have one annoying problem that I cant seem to fix yet! (the fire goes out with the smokebox door closed, but it stays lit with the door open)..I know the problem is because I built it! ;) and I had never built a live steamer before..its not the loco, its an inexperienced builder...because all the "factory-built" rubys I have seen always run flawlessly..
just take your time, take it slow, fix one problem at a time, and it will run! :)
Hi FG&J
No one already built would not have been better look at what you have learned about steam that I have not because I bought ready to run.
Sure you had difficulties but once its right and needs some attention later you will have some idea as to what's going on without resorting to the spell book.
If you had bought the propane burner you would have had to replace the gas tank and Possibly the gas pipe work as well something to do with the way the two different gasses behave
Love the description you and TJ put to steam power its pretty well right some times EGR No 5 behaves sometimes she don't, may be I am not pronouncing the incantation right I am still learning to get the best out of her she is a Roundhouse Millie.
A Red one just like all good steam loco's are
regards John
I can't believe it only took 5 hours to assemble! My Ruby parts were really hard to fit together and I broke most of them. I finally got it together and it ran a few feet. i'm having someone tune it now, as I have trouble getting the valves to go right; it's finicky and more black magic than simply doing such and such
also, I'm wondering if i wasn't penny wise and pound foolish. the price of butane is so high i'm thinking should have spent a few hundred dollars more on a propane burner and would have saved $$$ in long run; also, one already built would have been better
I have limited experience with live steam, but what I know is that it is finicky at first until you learn the ins-n-outs of the process.
Your first step is to ensure that mechanically everything is running true. A binding anywhere in the mechanism is bad, and yes, it could take some time and machining to get it perfect. Trouble with the axle hole? I would start there.
How is your boiler? Are the connections clean and tight? As a reminder there is a real life union of boilermakers dedicated to more or less that one function, your miniature boiler works on the exact same principles as full sized ones.
Check the gear timing according to the instructions. If it's off even a slight amount then it won't work well or not at all.
If your flame is going out I would think that you have an air leak into the line somewhere. Recheck all fittings.
As was stated this is not a "light it and go" aspect of the hobby. Live steam is somewhat like trying to get a kick start Triumph with and AMAL carb started on a cold morning. You've got to have a little voodoo.
There are a lot of resources available on line, one of our forum contributors manufactures and sells steam models, maybe he can help. Don't give up yet! There are great rewards in the world of live steam, so hang in there!
The Dixie D Short Line "Lux Lucet In Tenebris Nihil Igitur Mors Est Ad Nos 2001"
cabbage wrote:Ok.....I am not familiar with the Ruby kit -but having assembled my own steam locomotive from a kit -let me run you through a few diagnostics first.Put the loco on some track and GENTLY push it -does it move freely?Turn the wheels until ONE of the pistons is at full stroke -where is the other at this position?Turn the regulator valve from full in to full out and then back again -does the valve seat in the same place as when you began?If all of the above is correct then oil up your loco and try moving it manually up and down a length of track until you feel it move smoothly, this may take a couple of hours or so -spread over several days. Take it all apart again, clean out any "break in" grit/filing etc and then try re-steaming.regardsralph
Which one is the regulator valve? The gas or throttle?
Also, the flame in the boiler tank goes out every few minutes. I always have to re-light the flame. Turning up the gas flow does not help at all. Why is this so?
I did not do that air testing thing. Yes, I do know how to light the burner. I did that outside.
Its ridiculous. I assembled it and why isn't it ready to run? Waste of my time and money. Ridiculous.
Good Lord.
Almost as bad as epoxying parts onto a Ruby chassi.
Live Steam can be an all-encompassing hobby unto itself.
I have 2 ASTERs, run them maybe once a year.
You need to learn live steam.
It's going to take some time.
And some work.
It isn't just light the fire, turn the valve, and off you go.
How did it run on the bench on air?Oh, wait, you didn't do that?
Valve gear has been set properly and re-checked?
Go find the live steam forum on MyLargeScale, those guys will assist you.
5 whole hours to assemble, adjust, bench-test on air, set the valves....
5 whole hours.
Probably should have spent that much time just reading the instructions.
Oh, well.
Next thing you'll tell us you did it in the house.
You do know not to fuel them up and light them off inside, don't you?
With a mature response like this it does not sound like you're old enough to play with trains!
-Brian
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