Stander Gauge to G gauge conversion?

[vsmith]

Art, K, thanks for trying to help clear up the confusion,

Ralph, yes, "standard gauge" is likely an American only gauge.

It should be a fairly simple thing to reguage the wheelsets on newer MTH wheels, and if he can find a loco body shell converting to a new motor block wouldnt be too hard,

but heres a fly in the ointment!

Older standard gauge wheelsets MAY NOT use insulated wheels like we do in G, that because in AC 3 rail operation BOTH outer rails are negative , with the 3rd middle rail being the positive power supply source, so the wheel sets were often all metal soldered together. BE CAREFULL TO MAKE SURE WHATEVER WHEELS YOUR GOING TO USE ARE INSULATED for 2 rail operation.

Using regauged uninsulated all metal wheels on 2 rail DC operation is going to result in an instant short circuit, just like laying a screwdriver across the tracks.

Just thought I should point that out, have FUN!

 

[Anonymous]

I've followed this thread, noticing that 'standard gauge' doesn't seem to mean the same thing to all posters.  Lionel 'invented' Standard Gauge'.  American Flyer copied it and I believe they referred to it as Wide Gauge, as did Ives.  If you do an internet search on Lionel, Ives, and American Flyer you can find a lot of stuff that may or may not be accurate. 

That great font of knowledge, Wikipedia, mentions Lionel's O gauge having a 27 inch radius; HORSEFEATHERS!  The diameter of a circle of regular Lionel O gauge track, from center rail to center rail, measures 28.28 inches (10 inches times 2 times the square root of 2), which is a radius of 14.14 inches.  Anybody that believe the data on Wikipedia is accurate gets what they deserve - end of rant.

So Standard Gauge is of USA origin and quite apart from gauges 0 (zero), 1, 2 , and 3, wider than gauge 1 by quite a bit. But the exact gauge in inches for Standard Gauge varies from site to site.  Some of this, I suspect, is because of the tubular track - the distance often being measured from center to center of the tubular rail or measured between the rails as T rail is.

Art

[kstrong]

To follow up on Vic's message (there does seem to be a bit of confusion), the old Lionel standard gauge trains are nominally proportioned to around what our 1:29 and 1:32 trains are. The measurements of a typical passenger car are 3 1/2" wide by 5" tall. They're still tinplate toys, so they'll look horribly out of place mixed in with today's models, but as a standalone train, they'll be fine. Again, I've seen this done, and it looks good.

Motive power is the big issue. But since the OP is asking about rolling stock only, I'd assume he has a large-scale locomotive in mind with which to pull the stuff. On the other hand, any of the old Lionel non-steam standard gauge locos could easily be converted via a new motor block and no one would be the wiser. The steam locos are a bit more difficult, but with enough effort, a solution could be found.

Later,

K

[cabbage]

(Cough!)

Speaking as a person to whom most of the source books used to build my railway ARE pre WW2....

The only common gauges that I can find are Gauge 2 (2in) or Gauge 3 (2.5in). Is 2.25in an american only gauge?

regards

ralph

Post Scriptumn: I came back with the decision to use a pre drilled plastic sleeper for my new gauge 3 track with brass bullhead rail, chairs will be "white metal" and epoxied into the sleeper and then nails fitted "just for show!"

[vsmith]

Guys get out the model RR history books, or do a google search and refresh a little about the 'other' big trains, the 'first' big trains, the ones that were there BEFORE O, HO, N and G, namely 'standard gauge' 

OK for the SECOND time please let me point out AGAIN...

...that he does not want to convert O to run on G,

he wants to convert the BIGGER standard guage stuff like MTH has reissued.

It does NOT run on smaller O track...

but on LARGER standard gauge track which is WIDER than G.

2 1/4" gauge

NOT O

Sheesh, its like almost no one has a clue about this prewar stuff!

Scotty

please reread my first post, I did give him sound advice as to way to achieve this with perhaps the simplest way for rolling stock, by simply regauging the standard gauge wheelsets. But that WILL NOT work for engines unless you feel like cutting out about 1/2 an inch right down the middle of a steel motorblock to narrow it! Better to aquire a engine shell and use G motorblocks, or better yet simply keep it stock and BUILD dual gauge track. 

 

[scottychaos]

DONT DO IT THAT STUFF IS EXPENSIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SERIOUSLY DUDE THIS IS A BAD IDEA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You screw with it and you will KILL its value and more importantly, it might not work.

DO IT THAT STUFF IS CHEAP JUNK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SERIOUSLY DUDE THIS IS A GREAT IDEA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You screw with it and you wont KILL its value, if it has none to begin with, and more importantly, they are YOUR trains and you can do whatever you want with them, and it will probably work just fine.

sure, some Lionel has "value" and is expensive..you can also pick up a lot of Lionel junk on ebay for 5 bucks...and really, many people dont care about value anyway..

And lets just say this IS actually "valuable" Lionel..expensive Lionel..so what?? If I want to buy a rare $2,000 engine and cut it into 5 pieces and put Thomas faces on it, thats my right! No one can say "YOU CANT DO THAT!" of course I can! its MY engine! if you dont like it, too bad! ;)

unless you plan to eventually SELL your lionel trains while you are still alive, the "value" is meaningless and pointless..personally, im planning to keep all my trains until I die, and I really dont care what the value will be after im dead! ;) and a pristine $200 Lionel engine today will be worth about $250 in 30 years...so what? big deal... unless you have a $50,000 Lionel collection with very rare locomotives, you arent going to retire by selling your collection anyway...most of us dont buy trains for their "value"..we buy them because they are fun toys!

its a HOBBY! have fun with it! cut your lionel trains in half if you want to! IMO people place FAR too much emphasis on "value" and keeping things pristine..sure, if you are a "collector" and buy trains to keep in their box in a dark closet forever because they are "valuable", thats fine, go for it, no one has the right to tell you thats stupid, you can do whatever you like with your trains...but no one also the right to say cutting up your Lionel trains is stupid either! ;)

 As for putting G-gauge trucks on Lionel trains...well...techincally there is no reason it wouldnt work...but im not really seeing the point...unless you already have a loop of G-gauge track up and running and also want to run O-scale trains on the same track..which I guess is what Dodger is talking about..in that case, there should be no major issues..some minor mods to the trucks and/or cars would be in order..and it will look odd with small trains riding on giant trucks! but so what?..I say go for it! there is no law against it..

Regauging steam locomotives is a another matter though..and can get very complicated..

now that I think about it more, I agree that laying dual-gauge track is probably the best solution, then you dont have to modify the lionel trains (makes everyone happy! ;) and you can run all your trains on the "bar loop"..putting new trucks under cars is easy, and modfying diesels wouldnt be a big deal...but if you want to re-gauge a locomotive like this:

you are talking about a much more complicated project...might be as "simple" as installing longer axels, but its still a major undertaking...not impossible of course! and if its what you really want to do, there is no reason you shouldnt go for it...it all just depends on what you REALLY want to do with these trains..

Scot

[FJ and G]

now that I think about it, standard gauge MTH/Lionel is 3 rail. You'd need to get new axles or cut them apart and add insulation (unless you installed an inside or outside 3rd rail or did like I did and make my own remote control device in which case you'd lose all sounds, smoke and other special effects b/c Lionel and MTH sound systems don't work with any R/C products out there.

[kstrong]

At the risk of sounding completely contrary, why not? I've seen this done in the past, and they didn't look too bad--certainly not "out of scale" (well, "scale" being relative with tinplate). I just looked on evilBay at completed auctions. The prices are comparable to--if not cheaper than G-scale equipment. For instance, a locomotive and three passenger cars in good condition for under $300, or two individual passenger cars in fair condition for under $25 a piece. I say "go for it!"

The hardest part will be finding suitable trucks with a short enough wheelbase. You may have better luck just buying new wheelsets to fit in the original trucks. Most of the custom wheel manufacturers should be able to make wheels and axles to meet the required specs.

I can hear the collectors among us cringing, but so what? These are the same collectors (speaking as a generic group) who tell me that my meticulously restored pre-war Lionel train set is not worth as much as it would be if it was a pile of non-working rust, or that my well-loved Lionel GG-1 is worth two to three times as much as the entire pre-war train set. With logic like that, I'm going to delight in watching y'all cringe. (And no, I have no interest in selling.)

The OP obviously knows how much the cars are going to cost him. It's obviously worth it to him, or he wouldn't ask the question. Cut the guy some slack. It's his money.

Later,

K

[cabbage]

Gauge 3 is a live and well and about to start living in my back garden!!! It is true that size wise Gauge 3 and "G" are fairly close. If the question is: how do I run Gauge 3 and G on the same track then the answer is simple. GRS sell a dual gauge "G3" and "G1" sleeper set that you slide the rails into giving you dual gauge. (I have stolen this from the GRS web site).

viz:



I am contemplating buying either this system or the one sold by Brandbright. I will decide on Saturday....

regards

ralph

[RR Redneck]

  I want aquire some buitifull Lionel Standerd Gauge cars and swap out the trucks for G gauge,,,

Has there been a Artical written about this?

*Raises hand at the back of the crowd* Yeah, about that. Why???!!! First of all the cars would look horribly out of proportion and secondly it would just plain screw them up!

[vsmith]

S&G

He's got this in mind:

The older style Standard Guage that ran on 2 1/2" gauge 3 rail track, not the smaller O gauge stuff. This was the G of its time.

As yes, These babies are about the same bulk-wise as G but in most cases way way more expensive than G stuff.

The SG track is still pretty easy to find and MTH has new track available, given all this I still think a double track would be the easiest solution.

[S&G Rute of the Silver River]

WHAT ARE YOU THINKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One Lionel track is cheap, and often just as durable as the LGB stuff

Two, The trains are smaller than 1:29 it'd be about the same as running HO flatcars behind a G scale Bach 2-8-0.

Three, They are way more valuable in origional condition. Besides If you are desprate to run outside, you can have a highly conversational pice of a RR. Lionel outside.....

[FJ and G]

I'm not quite sure why you'd want to go thru the trouble of conversion when standard gauge track is available. If it's too pricey, why not just buy some "G gauge" rails and spike them? That would really add conversation to the bar when you tell them you laid the track. And if you don't care to spike it yourself, there are oftentimes folks gathered at 7/11s who would do it for some pay.

[John Busby]

Hi Brooklyn Trolley Dodger

As a one of conversion of a car of similar proportions to "G" and only if the car is acquired without trucks it is worth considering as a conversation piece.

But to do the conversion on a whole railway system seems like madness and unnecessary expense

I believe but don't quote me that the track is still reasonably easy to get so track for the system should not be a problem so my thoughts are keep the whole lot std gauge.

It will then have the full old world appeal that way.

regards John

[Snoq. Pass RR]

DON'T make the conversion.  By keeping the Lionel in it origional state, you have some resale value (just incase you ever NEED the money).  I would just do a three rail track or a duel gauge.

[vsmith]

DONT DO IT THAT STUFF IS EXPENSIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SERIOUSLY DUDE THIS IS A BAD IDEA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You screw with it and you will KILL its value and more importantly, it might not work.

Make your bar shelf for the trains double tracked, or sit down and build some dual gauge track, its not that hard if thier are no switches.

This is like aquiring a mint condition 59 corvette, then deciding you want to swap a Ford motor into it. It could be done, but why kill the value of it?

IF you INSIST on this MADNESS, the following applies to CARS ONLY - you might be able to swap out the WHEELS only to G, but the trouble will be with axle width, standard gauge is wider than Guage 1 by a fair margin so using G wheels and a custon axle could get very complicated. A better possibility is if you can aquire aftermarket Standard Gauge wheels made by MTH and by pressing the wheels inward - regauge them to G (DO NOT DO THIS WITH THE ORIGINAL WHEELS, put them in a bag for safekeeping). If my memeory is correct Standard Gauge is 2 1/2", Guage 1 is 1 3/4 " so you would have to press them in by about 3/8" on each side. Thats alot! There might be issues with undercar clearences.

Now cars are one thing - YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO REGUAGE ANY ENGINES. If you have an engine as well, your only options are dual gauge track or a double track mainline (one G, one Standard Guage)

Persoanally I would consider the dual gauge track, could be alot of fun and educational!

[Brooklyn Trolley Dodger]

  Its for my planned bar and shop layout on the elevated track....No one cept the hard core railroad wingnuts would care...But I like the way the brass and metal shines off the light in the bar on the stnaderg gauge..

[ttrigg]

Brooklyn;
Unless I completely do not understand what you are doing, to me that would be the same as taking a 1956 Volkswagen Beetle off it's pan and setting it down on a 1965 Mustang frame.  A little bit of inappropriate sized items.  But, Hey, this is a hobby, hobbies are for fun, some folks get up tight when they look at the disparity in "scale" between the structures on my GRR.  Do what ever you will enjoy, but I for one would like to see some pictures of the project!!!!

[tangerine-jack]

Why do you wish to do this conversion?  It would seem to me that the cars are more valuable in the original condition.  But if you really want to do this mod, then it shouldn't be very hard, but I've never seen or heard of it before.  Sorry I can't be of more help.

[dwbeckett]

DON'T DO IT

[Brooklyn Trolley Dodger]

  I want aquire some buitifull Lionel Standerd Gauge cars and swap out the trucks for G gauge,,,

Has there been a Artical written about this?