Fitting decoders to Aristocraft and Converting soundsystems from dc to dcc

[rosella]

Sorry new to this

We are having a lot of trouble fitting decoders to aristocraft locos eg. dash 9, FA1, RS3,

We have followed the instructions with the decoder and can not get lights to turn off, they will dim when loco direction is changed but not go out.

We have had this problem with NCE ( i have the pro cab Radio control Nce System with 10amp booster) decoders so we purchased some MRC decoders and have had the same problem, i emailed both NCE and MRC with the problem and sent a wiring diagram and MRC responded that the wiring was correct and they  had no idea what the problem was, NCE are still to respond  (emailed them in november last year).

2 of the NCE decoder have since failed (Burnt out Smoked any way and wont program)

and all 6 of the mrc decoders have also since failed .

I have now returned to my Aristocraft train engineer untill i can sort out what is wrong(luckily we had only converted 6 of my locos to dcc)

I would be very greatful for any help some may have to this problem.

Thank you reading this long winded post

John

QUEENSLAND  AUSTRALIA 

 

 

[two tone]

 

 Hi i`m in england can not be much help with your problem but the only advice I can give is talk to the senior repair engineer at your Aristocraft repair centre  we know over here there are problems doing what you want to. Remember 90% of locos are made in the far east and they do not always stick to the full spec when putting units together

 

                Hope thus helps

[Curmudgeon]

Lots of luck.

The lighting circuitry is driven off the motors (or track inputs).

Voltage doubles, current limiters, the lot.

I have done radio/battery conversions on them all, and these are NOT what a dcc user would call "ready".

Also, you might want to look at the "track/battery" switch........some ONLY lift one side of the track, which isn't going to work well with your decoder.

Feel free to re-lamp the locomotive to make said lights available to your lighting outputs, or build your own lighting control circuits.

[rosella]

 

Thanks for you response

I will  contact Aristicraft again about the problem.

Don't know how they get away with stating that they are DCC/RC ready when the dam things are no where near ready, I think we will gut the things and start from scratch and hope we dont burn out anymore decoders.

We have already replaced the original lights with LED and it still does the same thing 

 

[Curmudgeon]

What you have to do is fully isolate the headlights from any other wiring and wire them TO the lighting outputs of your decoder.

The markers can either be run on all the time, or via some other toggle-able outlet, as can be the cab light.

Best not complain too loudly or long, as certain company shills are sure to try to shout you into the basement.

There were also certain engines where one "pin" of the plug-in unit had to be "bent" out of the way, others where another "pin" had to be bent out of the way.

I have been pushing for simply coarse ready, specifically 2 wires to headlight, 2 to backup, 2 to cab, 2 to markers, 2 to motors and 2 to track, so anybody can put anything into them, but nobody cares.

 

TOC

[Anonymous]

I can't speak with any authority on this matter but many things of this ilk; work on using a common wire and switching on the other wire and sometimes the commons get mixed up.

Rgds Ian

[Curmudgeon]

"I can't speak with any authority on this matter"

 If I added to that I'd probably get slapped.

Other than you certainly have a way with words.

[cacole]

You're not trying to use HO or O scale decoders in G scale engines are you?  If you are, they cannot come even close to handing the current draw of a G scale motor and that's why you're burning them up.

The reason I ask this is that the NCE web site does not list any G scale decoders, and I'm pretty sure that MRC doesn't make any, either.  Digitrax does, and I think Lenz does, but not NCE or MRC.  Most HO or O scale decoders are rated at only 2 or 3 Amps, and a G scale decoder is usually rated at 5 Amps or more.

[rosella]

No they are not ho or o decoders 

They are 8 amp decoders for g Scale 

NCE  and MRC do make 8 Amp decoders 

for G sacle 

NCE part number is 524-112

Mrc Part number is AD 324

Thanks for your response anyway

John

Australia 

[ChrisEMTpa]

Have you considered just using the Aristocraft DCC system? I just installed there onboard receiver in my 4-6-2 without any problems. Although I do need to the accesory receiver to control the lights and smoke unit. It cost about 150.00 for the receiver and transmitter.

[rosella]

Hi

 

Yes that is an option but we are a little to far along the dcc track now to turn back.

We have had some lick with digitrax decoders and some new sound systems we have purchased.

DCC is the ultimate if we can finally work out the different problems with the different brand of locos, I think when we woprk it out we will write a book on how to install DCC in G sacle and recoup some of the losses in blown decoders.

I have fitted around 40 decoders in my N scale locos with out a problem, and the gentleman working with me has fitted over 30 in his HO locos also without problems.

We will keep grinding away we must win in the end.

Thanks for your suggestion i wish i had gone that way in the first place

Merry Christmas

John 

[bobgrosh]

John

TOC hit on it.

DID YOU BEND OUT ONE PIN?

 If you did not, or, if you bent out the wrong pin you will have the problems you discribed.

 Now, what do I mean by the wrong pin?

Well if you followed the directions on the Aristo web site, then most likly you bent out the wron pin.

 

Go to http://www.digitrax.com/ftp/dg383arpin.pdf Look closely at the diagram and be sure you bent out pin 7.

Note that you are looking at the DECODER not into the socket in the loco. 

If you bent out pin 7 on the Aristo diagram then you actually bent out pin 6, that means the lights will not turn off, and it also means that you will burn out part of the bridge rectifier on the decoder under some conditions, (using the Aristo smoke generator is one of them)

NOTE:

NO MATTER WHAT BRAND OF DECODER. DO NOT CONNECT ANYTHING TO THE PIN INDICATED AS PIN 7 (the DC Ground or DC -) in the loco. ALSO: depending on whare you dowload it from, the drawings from Aristo may improperly identify the Common + as the Ground or minus. Always go to the Digitrax site, compare the decoder pictured to yours, mak sure the pins are pointed toward you and orented correctly. 

I have installed Digitraxx DG583 decoders in dozens of locos, including 5 Aristo locos. Only one has have ever burned out. That one was in an Aristo RS3 where I bent the wrong pin out.

As to the NCE, I've only installed three, all of them burned out, even in low current draw locos like single motor LGB. Go figure!

 

 

[Greg Elmassian]

I do not have the FA, I do have an RS3, and have helped my friend on his dash. I also have DCC in Aristo Mikado and Mallet. I have NCE in Bachmann annie, and USAT F units.

The wiring in the Aristo's varies. For the ones with the socket, I would recommend the QSI, it is truly plug and play. $130 for sound and motor. I have the 5th generation RS3 (check my site) and it took longer to get the shell off than to install the decoder. The headlight never goes out, just dim in reverse.

My friend put one in a dash 9, works great, it's one of the first Aristo locos they put it in.

I put the QSI in the Mikado and Mallet, work great, but you want to do some wiring to enhance power pickup in the Mike, and Mallet, and there is some chance of miswiring from the factory, again see my site.

On the NCE decoders, I have found them basically very tough. I suspect you have some wiring errors. For these decoders, you need to basically eliminate the Aristo socket and wire directly to the lights with appropriate dropping resistors. You need of course to determine the voltages necessary, and thus the appropriate dropping resistors.

Go to my site... select TRAINS... then MOTIVE POWER MODS AND TIPS... then select ARISTO... then you can pick the RS3, MIKADO, and MALLET sections. I have a lot of detail on the wiring on the Mikado and the Mallet, due to the vagaries in Aristo factory wiring.

Regards, Greg

www.elmassian.com

 

[hudrail]

 Hi Guys . I have just recieved a bunch of QSI plug and play decoders and they do what they say on the box PLUG @ PLAY ! There are minor problems my friend Craig is working on like you cannot turn the smoke unit on and off yet but we will get there. The fundemental problem seems to be the attitude of the suppliers who could not care about us or just choose to ignore critisism. The instruction sheets with the locos are a total joke they do not have a wiring diagram with voltages and notes on DCC installations. We the people who buy the products are left to make the same errors,  blow the same bulbs,  find replacements,  learn  how to even separate the body from trhe chassis. Dont you Americans have trading standards who can take these guys to court . The problem too is the fact that the greatest payers of advertising monies are the perpertrators of the problems so there is no constructive evaluations of the faults .Dcc is the future Aristo and USA trains are fantastic but we need a fair deal and a wiring diagram would be a start to all our problems

[dwbeckett]

I can't speak with any authority on this matter but many things of this ilk; work on using a common wire and switching on the other wire and sometimes the commons get mixed up.

Rgds Ian

WELCOME BACK Ian I missed your inputs.

Dave

[Anonymous]

I took TOC's advice from the start and rip out any factory boards and simply wire everything directly to the decoder, except where I add relays where I'm going to exceed the output rating.  The only touchy issue I've found with ripping out factory boards is determining whether any lights are LEDs and hence whether the resistor is in the board.  But, if you can see that the bulb is an LED, simply add your own resistor when wiring directly to the decoder - and because LEDs are polarity sensitve, bench test it if the wire colors don't already give it away.

I've only converted Bachmann's but I've been using NCE D13SRs in G scale and have yet to have a problem.  If I'm pulling 6 to 7 cars on flat track with 5' diameter curves with a decoder rated at 1.3/2 amps, something is terribly wrong if you're blowing higher rated decoders.  I measure between .5 and .7 amps at 14 volts in the above scenario.  I've also had some collisions without blowing a decoder.  To avoid discussions about stall current etc., I'm not necessarily advocating these decoders for Gscale, the only point being there is something wrong if you're blowing higher rated ones.

Are you talking to Larry at NCE?  I usually get same day response from him.