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Front Yard layout considerations

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  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Arizona (high country 7k ft) USA
  • 676 posts
Front Yard layout considerations
Posted by Rex in Pinetop on Friday, February 23, 2007 5:53 PM

We just completed a summer home on a corner lot in a residential subdivision in Pinetop, AZ (7,000 ft with snow in the winter).  We will live there about half the year from late spring to early fall retiring to our desert home in the winter.  We have permission from the home owners association to build a garden railroad in the front area between the streets and the house amoungst the tall pine trees.  There are no sidewalks but plenty of pedestrian traffic.  The house sits about 5 ft below the streets.  The area for the railroad is a little over 30 ft deep and 120 ft long in an "L" shape.  I've cut the walking/viewing paths in and the basic retaining walls before the weather turned bad.  My idea is to have a way for the guests to walk down into the garden and off the street for safe viewing of the trains.  Another idea was to put a depot under the house in the crawl space accessed by one of the vents in the stem wall which would have a lockable door for train security when we're away.  My initial plan calls for two main lines.  The first is the 200 ft loop river line that is fairly flat running along the river rock drainage ditch between the house and the streets.  The second is the 250 ft mountain line which parallels the streets higher up.  It has a 3.5% grade.

My request is for any lessons learned on front yard layouts.  What should I look out for and what should I plan on for this expected high traffic garden layout?   

  • Member since
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  • From: Chatham, Ont
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Posted by DennisB on Saturday, February 24, 2007 10:29 AM

Dear Rex,   I moved my layout to my front yard and had no problems. No vandalism and no theft. I lived in a fairly busy neighborhood and my neighbors would tease me that I had the largest security and work force to guard all the buildings and small figures that populate the layout. Children are your best ally. As I built the layout many children and teens would come to visit and would ask for a chance to run the trains. We formed the Oliphant Garden Rail Empire (OGRE). The OGRE's helped with maintaining the layout, clearing debris off the track, even painting those buildings that were fading. They were also a great asset for new ideas. They were all taught how the layout worked and how to look for problems before running trains. In a short time they treated this as their own. Nothing got broken, nothing went missing, and if a stranger wandered into the yard to see the layout, there was an OGRE to greet them. These youngsters are a great source of joy and help. The OGRE's made garden railroading a real joy.

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Arizona (high country 7k ft) USA
  • 676 posts
Posted by Rex in Pinetop on Saturday, February 24, 2007 1:11 PM

KC,

Thanks!  This is what I hoping for as I build the R&S Line.  There are lots of kids in the neighborhood and they are my target audience.

 Rex

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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, February 24, 2007 6:31 PM

Well done you guys, i would try to stay away from the 3.5 % grades if i can and even more avoid them on a tightish curves. The size of your trains will be reduced considerably and you will need powerful articulated locos as well, if you do.

Rgds Ian

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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, February 24, 2007 6:33 PM

Oh yes, i forgot, if you are retired or near it i would not involve crawl spaces, i know someone in his sixties who has to crawl to parts of his layout and i woulndn't wish that on anyone.

Rgds Ian

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Arizona (high country 7k ft) USA
  • 676 posts
Posted by Rex in Pinetop on Saturday, February 24, 2007 9:39 PM

Ian,

I'm a 62 year old retired Army LTC and in my younger days crawling 30 ft would have been nothing however the years have changed some of that.  This crawl space isn't so bad though.  There is lighting with lots of head space so I can sit up while I'm working it plus it's hands and knees rather than low crawl under barbed wire and machine gun fire.

I've learned my lesson on tight turns on my previous layouts so no more of those.  I've got plenty of room this time so big wide sweeping turns on the main lines.

The 3.5% grade is an issue.  I'm considering some more pick and shovel work to maybe bring it down over most of the upper line but getting it up to the upper terrace is still an issue.  I've thought about a 15 ft radius 3 turn helix to do that.  That's about 300 ft of track to climb a little over 3 ft so it's an expensive solution.  I've never done that before although I've been through a full scale helix in Canada going over the rockies.  Any experience on helii?

Rex

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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, February 25, 2007 7:53 PM

Rex,

I don't know how well off you are but i have been thinking for a while that i will pay someone to do the hard work for me, but so far my pride hasn't let me do that. Around here you can get a lot of that sort of work done for not much at all.

Whats an LTC is it a Lieutenant Colonel?

Rgds Ian

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Arizona (high country 7k ft) USA
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Posted by Rex in Pinetop on Sunday, February 25, 2007 8:41 PM

Ian,

Yes it's Lt Col.  We visited your fair country in 05 on a cruise from Sydney down the coast and over to New Zealand.  Road a couple narrow gauge tourist runs and had a great time.

I'm not one to pay others for my hobby but I hope some of the kids will want to do some of the crawling. 

I took a trip up to Pinetop today just to check things out.  Some snow on the ground and evidence that the snow plows have dumped a load or two on the upper terrace.  I guess I'm going to have to do something to protect the corner.

Rex

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, February 27, 2007 6:29 PM

Yeah mate well good luck. and i'm glad you like Oz.

Rgds ian

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Arizona (high country 7k ft) USA
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Posted by Rex in Pinetop on Monday, March 5, 2007 11:28 PM

Guys I've been spending more time on the track plan since the ground is frozen right now.  The two main lines with the 4 turn 16' diameter helix plus the underhouse depot and wyre have me laying somewhere around 700' of track.  A guesstimate of $350/100' of flex track says I'm putting in a fair investment in track alone.  Do any of the bigger suppliers provide quanity discounts or am I going to put the local hobby shop owner's kids through college?

Rex

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, March 6, 2007 8:06 PM

Rex;

Have a look at ebay; track is expensive here in Australia and that is why i go for our club rail in 3.69 m (12') lengths, less joins too. I pay about A$350 for 20 lengths of 3.69 m so thats 120 '  and i had to pay for sleepers (ties) as much again on top of that. I have 600 m and i didn't do it all in one go; i have had about 4 major expansions so i have defrayed the cost over several years.

It came out here on the forum that i also have nearly A$3000 worth of points (switches) as well. So its not cheap but after a while you get used to it. Look carefully at what you get terminology wise; ie rail length or track length one is twice the other and what about sleepers?.

Some people use flextrack for straights and buy bends on ebay but don't go fro less than R3 if you can, most available are R1 not nice at all.

$A X .78 = US$

Rgds Ian

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Arizona (high country 7k ft) USA
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Posted by Rex in Pinetop on Tuesday, March 6, 2007 11:55 PM

Ian,

Thanks for the suggestion.  I'll take a look and see what's available on eBay and if the clubs in the area have a less expensive source for track too.

I did visit a train shop today.  I haven't been to one in over 4 years so it was interesting to see all the new stuff.  I asked the owner about the new stainless steel track.  At least it's new to me.  He didn't know much about it other than it was about 30% more expensive and had less conductivity so was somewhat concerned about digital signal transmission loss.  That was a new one for me as well.  I need to do some more research on the stainless option as polishing brass track was never a favorite chore.

I did find a quanity sale from Aristo-Craft - buy 4 boxes and get the 5th one free.  A box of 24 8' rails runs about $237 US.  I think that translates to about $2.47/ft for the rails.  The box of 24 1'  "sleepers" from Aristo-Craft is about $21 US.  That adds about $0.87/ft for a total of $3.34/ft.  Taking the 5 for the price of 4 boxes option brings the price down to $2.67.  Of course that doesn't include rail joiners so those will have to be added too.

I think this does it for this post as I have the answers I needed.  Thanks everyone.

Rex

  • Member since
    October 2005
  • From: S. Carolina Up-country
  • 279 posts
Posted by jhsimpson62 on Monday, April 23, 2007 5:01 PM
Rex, Looks like a great place for a rail road. Will be looking for progress reports with pictures. As for the stainless steel track, I think its worth every penny of the extra expense. My last layout in Pa was brass rails. Unless you ran it every day, it had to be buffed up before every running. Here in Sc, I used stainless and have yet to do anything but an ocassional spot cleaning to remove some oil or bird dropings. Good luck and have fun. Jack

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