narrow gauge-g scale

[newto gscale]

Being new to g scale trains i read about what is called narrow gauge trains and g scale.My question is are these two the same or are they two completely different sizes of model trains.Also can you mix the two and run them together?Thanks to who ever helps

[cacole]

Bachmann 1:20.3 scale trains are called narrow gauge but they run on standard 45mm g-scale track, because they are supposedly models of narrow gauge engines proportioned to G-scale, which makes them bigger than other models.

 

[devils]

Well it's a minefield of confusion!

This link may explain some of the different scales covered by G Scale ( which really just means Garden trains)

http://www.trains.com/grw/default.aspx?c=a&id=28

Basically most people use 45mm gauge track, Although in Britain 32mm gauge track is equally popular.

This is just a sample of the makes available

Commercial Narrow Gauge models using 45mm track.

LGB mostly 1/22 scale ( represents metre gauge European most accurately )

Aristocraft 1/24 scale ( ex Delton US 2-8-o )

Bachmann 1/20.3 scale ( represents accurate 3 foot gauge all US prototypes )

Accucraft 1/20.3 scale ( as  Bachmann )

Commercial Standard Gauge models using 45mm track.

LGB mostly 1/26 scale ( US and German prototypes)

Aristocraft 1/29 scale ( US diesels & steam )

USA trains 1/29 scale ( US diesels & steam )

Accucraft 1/32 scale ( US steam )

MTH 1/32 scale (US diesels & steam )

You can run different scales together especially with narrow gauge stuff as the real thing varied so much in size. Narrow gauge lines often had stock built in the 1800's running with stock built much later that was bigger.

Also unless you are trying to build a model of a complete railway lots of people just run what they like in the garden and will happily run a standard gauge 1/29 train alongside a 1/22 narrow gauge train. Depends on whether it's a serious model or just for relaxing and playing trains, I do both!

[Texas Zepher]

Being new to g scale trains i read about what is called narrow gauge trains and g scale. My question is are these two the same or are they two completely different sizes of model trains.

The gauge is simply the distance between the rails.  In the USA narrow gauge trains are any trains that run on track that has the rails closer together than "standard" of 4 feet 8 1/2 inches. 

The most common (by miles of track at least) narrow gauge in the USA is only three feet between the rails.   The Denver & Rio Grande, Rio Grande Western, and Rio Grande Southern probably being the most notible.   There were also many 2 feet, 2 1/2 feet narrow gauge railroads.

If one takes a piece of G-Gauge track and pretends that track's rails are 4' 8 1/2" apart then it is standard gauge.  If accurately sized trains are run on it, the "scale" of the trains is different than if they pretend the rails are 3' apart.  I pretend mine are 3' so that makes my trains narrow gauge and the trains a scale of about 1:20.3.

Also can you mix the two and run them together?

Well if the couplers match, yes, it would physically be possible.  But a narrow gauge 1:20.3 scale box car in the same train as a #1 gauge GP7 would look really silly.

  

 

 

[Southwest Chief]

If you ever go beyond the standard LGB/Aristo/USA track, there are other brands that try to simulate narrow gauge track with wider ties.

I use Llagas Creek "narrow gauge" track.  The rails are spaced the same as LGB/Aristo/USA, but the ties are longer and spread father apart giving the illusion of narrow gauge track.

Here is a link to the Llagas Creek website

I found this photo of the different track Llagas Creek manufactures.  Note the rails are all spaced the same it's just the ties that help complete the illusion. 

[Anonymous]

This entire matter gives me a pain and i try not to think about it at all. Hoewever i think i understand th situation enough to keep out of trouble.

Rgds Ian

[underworld]

To add to the confusion.....

Another fairly popular modelling group are the Gn15 people. It is G scale trains  running on narrow gauge, what would be scale 15 inches. With this you can run your G scale trains on HO gauge track, of course most of your locos and rolling stock would be scratch built or kit bashed.

Check out this web site

http://forum.gn15.info/

Ian Sorry to add to the muddy waters! Maybe you shouldn't look. I agree it can be maddening all of the differences in garden railroading.

underworld

[newto gscale]

So if i understand it narrow gauge is a style of trains that were from the early 1800s and they are also g scale.The main thing about narrow gauge is the style and size 1:20.Does that sound rite?????

[GearDrivenSteam]

Not to Mention Gn2, Gn3, Gn30, Gn18 and Gn9. As you can see, it can get pretty confusing when you move to large scale, because of all the different scales within large scale. This is one thing that makes it dificult when chosing detail parts such as figures. You just have to do your homework.

[kstrong]

So if i understand it narrow gauge is a style of trains that were from the early 1800s and they are also g scale.The main thing about narrow gauge is the style and size 1:20.Does that sound rite?????

For the most part, yes. The "golden age" of narrow gauge was from the 1880s to the 1930s. Most narrow gauge lines were either abandoned or converted to standard gauge by that time. There were a few notable exceptions--the most well-known being the Denver & Rio Grande Western and other Colorado narrow gauge railroads. There was also the East Broad Top in Pennsylvania and the East Tennessee & Western North Carolina. (Self explanatory where that one ran). These lasted into the 50s, and parts of them still operate today as tourist operations.

Much of the current 1:20 Ready-to-run equipment made by Bachmann and Accucraft are from the early 20th century. (Bachmann's 4-4-0 "American" and 2-6-0 "Centenial mogul" date from the mid 1870s).

There are other American narrow gauge models made to 1:22.5 and 1:24 scale by various companies, but in their respective scales, the gauge measures 1 meter and 42"--different than the 36" gauge common to most US narrow gauge lines, but "close enough" for many modelers. These models were manufactured before the current line of 1:20 models.

Later,

K

[devils]

So if i understand it narrow gauge is a style of trains that were from the early 1800s and they are also g scale.The main thing about narrow gauge is the style and size 1:20.Does that sound rite?????

IGNORE THE TERM G SCALE IT'S ABOUT AS DESCRIPTIVE AS THE WORD TRAINS!

IT'S PURELY A TERM USED TO DESCRIBE ANY MODEL RAILWAY LARGER THAN O SCALE (1/48 Scale real size). Model railroaders frequently misuse , as far as dictionaries are concerned, the terms scale and gauge because they have widely misused in marketing model trains for years. Terms like G scale define a wide group of different model trains much like the SUV does for lots of different cars.

Narrow Gauge trains means any real train running on track of less than 4 foot 8 1/2 inches which is known as standard gauge.

As mentioned above gauge means the distance between the inside faces of the two rails.

     I    <gauge>    I       (the I's represent the  rails) 

Is there anything particular you like to model, decide what you like and post it here and people will be able to suggest all sorts of stuff to help you build a railway that you enjoy. Don't worry if after buying 4 narrow gauge engines you suddenly buy a Santa Fe C44-9W diesel just because you like it. You could even pull the narrow gauge cars with it, certain members will have to sit down with a big bottle of whisky if you tell them! I run Standard gauge US trains, Narrow gauge US trains, Narrow Gauge Swiss, German and British all on 45mm track in the garden. I just run the each loco with appropriate coaches or wagons.

BORING DEFINITIONS AGAIN.

Narrow gauge encompasses anything from 4 foot 8 inches down to 15 inches, Anything smaller is usually covered by miniature trains or model engineers.

 Narrow Gauge trains are still being built and run today, many tram systems, several lines in Europe (especially Switzerland), Asia and in the construction industry. Basically anywhere that there is a need for tight curves (Switzerland for climbing mountains) or clearances ( tunneling ).

I'm assuming you're in the US so if you take the Narrow gauge lines that used to belong to the Denver & Rio Grande Western, ( now the Cumbres & Toltec and Durango & Silverton tourist lines ) you could get locos & stock from Accucraft in 1/20 scale so that 45mm track gauge = 3 feet gauge in 1/20 scale. ie 20 x 45mm = 900mm or 3 feet approx!  

1/20 SCALE is now the accepted accurate scale to gauge combination for modelling US 3 foot narrow gauge on 45mm track. Bachmann produce budget locos in this scale as well as the higher more detailed, and higher priced, Spectrum range. Accucraft do some superb D&RGW models but they are pricey. This actually means the Narrow gauge models are running on track of the right SCALE to gauge combination!

1/22 SCALE  LGB use this scale to more accurately represent European 1000mm gauge but also produce models of prototypes that ran on 750mm gauge and their US Mogul that ran on 3ft or 900mm gauge. They ignore the difference in gauge for good commercial reasons and they really were the ones who started the present market for large scale trains.

1/24 this was used by Delton and Aristocraft to make the loco they produced fit in with the standard gauge trains they produce in 1/29 scale purely so the stock looks right when run together.

 1/26 SCALE LGB again but this time their Standard gauge prototypes purely so they are the same physical size as the 1/22 narrow gauge trains and look right together.The locos etc are too big a scale for the gauge of track they are actually running on but they look good.

1/29 SCALE Aristocraft and USA Trains produce Standard gauge trains in this scale as they have a big WOW factor due to their size. The locos etc are too big a scale for the gauge of track they are actually running on but they look good.

1/32 SCALE This also known as gauge 1 and is the one that actually means the Standard gauge models are running on track of the right SCALE gauge!

Any clearer mate? Paul

[S&G Rute of the Silver River]

But hay if you buy something that is say 1/29 and you thinks it looks good w/ evrything else you have keep it, and if not save it for parts to build somethin new, thats half the fun. (or send it to Evil Bay) Anyways why dosen't a 1/29th scale man look good next to a 1/20.3 scale woman?

[grandpopswalt]

Newto,

I'd suggest that you first determine if your interests lie with steam era or deisel era trains. Once you've answered that question, buy an inexpensive starter set and start running trains. And while you're having fun playing with your trains you can continue to learn more about trains in general and about all the many and confusing types and scales that are available to you in Large Scale. Speaking from experience, I think you may find yourself moving from one scale/era to another several times before you finally find the combination that's just right for you.

I've migrated from 1:24 to 1:22 back to 1:24 and finally settled on 1:20.3. And I seriously considered 1:13.7 for a while. I was fortunate that I always knew I liked narrow gauge steam. I've added a new dimension lately by getting into ON30 indoors, modeling Maine 2 foot gauge RR's for the winter season. 

I think, I hope, I've finally found the right combination of scales/venues to completely satisfy my model RR passion.

Walt 

[newto gscale]

The era i what to stick with is early steam i have a lgb mogule and a arista steam switcher.The outdoor layout is lgb track with 4ft curves.We have a small side yard so the size of our layout is limited.We have 70ft of track so far and plan to add another 80ft of track.The one BIG mistake i made so far is i bougth a bachmann 2-8-0 that needs 8ft dia curves to run properly i did not know this untill after i bought the engine and tried to run it on a 4ft curveNeed i say more now we have a great looking engine that will not work on our layout and i don't know if i want to go with 8ft curves on the 80ft addition because the 8ft curves will take up  more area than i have to give.Oh well i have the rest of winter to figure it out.But my wife and myself like the early steam trains and plan to build a layout representing the western u.s.something like nevada or utah. THANKS FOR THE REPLY AND HELP

[FJ and G]

sorry to add more confusion but Walt alluded to 1:13.7. I use this scale for O gauge (7/8n18 scale) and for Gauge 1 (7/8n2). I believe this is the largest scale, although there are some who model in 1:12 and a few even 1:10, however these folks are a bit shy and don't post too much.

[Great Western]

[quote user="newto gscale"The one BIG mistake i made so far is i bougth a bachmann 2-8-0 that needs 8ft dia curves to run properly i did not know this untill after i bought the engine and tried to run it on a 4ft curveNeed i say more now we have a great looking engine that will not work on our layout and i don't know if i want to go with 8ft curves on the 80ft addition because the 8ft curves will take up  more area than i have to give.quote]

 Greetings, I felt that you comments about the areas of the U.S.A. you wish to model suggest you are not in the United States.  I notice your time zone is GMT which probably places you in the UK.

  Regarding your "too large" loco did you by it from a bona fide retailer?  If so ask them if it can be exchaged for something more suitable to your railroad.  I would think, as you have not appeared to have run it, that a decent supplier would do that for you.
 

[cabbage]

If you ARE in the Uk then you have a friend in "The Sale Of Goods Act". Provided your purchase was withing 10 days of your finding out your loco will not work on your layout then you CAN return the loco and get your money back. The Special Phrase is "Not suitable for the purpose for which it was intended".

regards

ralph

[GearDrivenSteam]

"and for Gauge 1 (7/8n2). I believe this is the largest scale" 

Sorry, but the largest scale is 1:1.

[ttrigg]

Being new to g scale trains I read about what is called narrow gauge trains and g scale. My question is are these two the same or are they two completely different sizes of model trains. Also can you mix the two and run them together? Thanks to who ever helps

As  devils has pointed out, many different scales run on the same track.  As far as running them together, only if it is not offensive to your eye.  I've got mostly 1:22.5 LGB stuff, a few pieces of Bachmann at 1:20.3 and they do not look too bad running at the same time in DIFFERENT trains.  I do have one set of stuff in the 1:29 range, running by itself, it looks good.  Run it while something else is on the track and to me it becomes an eye ache. Since I have not and do not ever intend to change the standard factory couplers, I have to keep the brand names separate.

[newto gscale]

Greatwestern i live in the state ohio usa.We have been out west several times that is why we want to build our outdoor layout to resemble utah,nevada we like the red rock and desert scenery.Hopefully we can reconstruct some of it. But we will not get started till spring.

[Great Western]

Greetings to our new friend in Ohio,

         Sorry to place you on this side of the Atlantic.  Even so the position of exchanging your loco may still be applicable though.  Not knowing from where you bought it, and American state laws, I can't help anymore.  I am sure that you will get some helpful info on this Forum however.  Anyhow good luck with your railroad.

          I don't know what Ohio looks like but maybe you will make your railroad look something like the part of America you want to model.  Although I have models suitable to Utah, Colorado and New Mexico my railroad will never really look like those areas - I live in a "mediterranean style" part of the UK.