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historic garden railways.....

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 6:19 PM

Karl you haven't said anything that would offend real Aussies believe me mate.

The idea that you have about the word Pom is one of about twenty that are bandied about.

A lot of Sydney type slang comes from British Naval terms, as the original colony of New South Wales of which Sydney is the capital was run by the British Navy, up until the Rum rebellion; when Colonel Lachlan Macquarie took over with has Highland Regiment and put the rebellion down. The Scots nearly died from the heat, they arrived in full kilts and even piped themselves off the ship at Sydney Cove (now Circular Quay) in the middle of summer, i dont think they knew they season here are reversed. 

For instance Sydney beers are just about all Naval Terms, This is very rough

200 ml Ladies Waist.

275 ml Middy

375 ml Schooner

500 ml Cruiser.

ml is a millilitre, it is hard for me as when i drank in pubs it was in imperial measures and i have forgoten over the years.

Rgds ian

 

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Posted by ukguy on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 1:25 AM

hmmmmm, and I always thought that "pom" was actually a language evolution of 'P.O.H.M'     .......  

POHM appeared on the ships carrying the original 'settlers' to Australia. POHM stands for "Prisoners Of Her Majesty".... as the original 'settlers' in Australia were infact British convicts sent there from the 'empire', much like a large scale Alcatraz but with no wardens.

(I guess Australia started out like 3 mile island in the film 'Escape From New York')

Thus, when any new Brits came over to Aus they were (and still are) refered to as POHM's (poms).

Have fun & be safe
Karl.

(disclaimer: before I offend any of the Aus members, I know not ALL the original settlers were convicts, but I beleive that is where the term comes from)

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, November 27, 2006 6:19 PM

Nic once more i get the idea that you are not an Aussie; just a pom living in Australia. I was born here in the outback 70 years ago and have lived here just about all that time (mostly in Sydney) my mothers family have been here for 200 years and owned a property in outback New South Wales on which they renewed a 99 year lease, twice. Also i am one of the few people that have visted all states of Australia and both islands of New Zealand several times. I can tell you i did not understand word you said.

Ian 

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, November 27, 2006 11:21 AM

http://www.bekonscot.com/

 

one of the oldest public model railways i know of

 

The McAlpine family had a steam light railway for many years in their country home

 

http://www.pardoe78.demon.co.uk/wolseley.htm#fawley

 

 

 

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Posted by vsmith on Monday, November 27, 2006 10:27 AM
 elizabethhanby wrote:
Wow, Ian, interesting, I guess.  All I can say is I've never heard an American use the term 'limey' to refer to a Brit.  I've read it in books - old books; and, I do understand its origin. 
 
Great example...find the DVD of John Fords film "Donovan's Reef"
 
John Wayne's south pacific bar, Lee Marvins' hangout, in walks three Aussie sailors on leave. Marvin say's "Why don't you 'limeys' go home.." to which the Aussie's naturally take a slight umbridge to, Wayne interceeds, "Come on guys, three against one?", "Three against two..." points out one sailor, as Wayne tries to disfuse the situation one of the sailors calls in another from outside and tells motioning to him tells Wayne, "This is my youngest brother...Take off your hat...your a YANK now...three against THREE!"  And as soon as he says that get pummeled my a blow from his little brother and what follows ranks as one of the shortest, but funniest, bar fights in cinima history.

   Have fun with your trains

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, November 27, 2006 4:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><table class="quoteOuterTable"><tr><td class="txt4"><img src="/trccs/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif">&nbsp;<strong>tangerine-jack wrote:</strong></td></tr><tr><td class="quoteTable"><table width="100%"><tr><td width="100%" valign="top" class="txt4"><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> The only thing to watch for is to </SPAN>NEVER, I repeat NEVER, call a Kiwi an Aussie.</P></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

And likewise don't call an Aussie a Kiwi - although there are more Kiwis in some parts of Australia than Aussies.

had a great time in the US a few years ago binding up the poor waiter and the manager in the "Great Outback Steakhouse" with their "Genuine Outback Rack of New Zealand Lamb" - didn't realise that New Zealand is another country, let alone not in the Outback.

I was offended though when they commented that Coopers was a "novelty sign" had to restrain myself from a verbal tirade - Coopers is very much real - and jut around the corner from where I live.

Heres a link http://coopers.com.au/home.php?flash=1

Best Beers in the World!!!

Pomegranate was rhyming slang - something related to imigrant.

and Heres a good site on "strine" (though the banana-benders speak the Queens English, What - ay!!) http://www.koalanet.com.au/australian-slang.html

THen again - we have gone off topic yet again, ay!
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 5:55 PM

I think the term Limey, came from British sailors who were frequently seen sucking limes, to ward off scurvey.

Ian

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 12:55 PM
Thank you, Ralph.  Later today, I will investigate the site you mentioned.  In the meantime, I anxiously await the completion of the magnificent giraffe car!  Please continue to post your progress.  Best, Elizabeth
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Posted by cabbage on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 1:21 AM
Miss Elizabeth,

I was born in the Crown Colony of Southern Rhodesia. This makes me a "Ridgeback". A "Slope" was born in the Union of South Africa.

Thank you for your comments on my web site. Could I also suggest you investigate "The Self Site"?

http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/

regards

ralph

The Home of Articulated Ugliness

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, November 21, 2006 7:44 PM
Wow, Ian, interesting, I guess.  All I can say is I've never heard an American use the term 'limey' to refer to a Brit.  I've read it in books - old books; and, I do understand its origin. 
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, November 21, 2006 6:20 PM

The word Pom is Australian for an English person and it is simialr in meaning to the term you Americans use "Limey". It can be insulting but mostly its not, more a term of freindship but friends can have a falling out and we do often (Australians and Poms). But if you knew Australians well; we wouldn't be bothered to ridicule you unless we liked you and wanted to have some sort of relationship with you.

The very worst thing you can get with an Australian is the use of the term Mister; This means we are not comfortable with you and would like to distance ourselves from you. If you call yourself Mr you are regarded as an ignorant person.

We do ridicule most other people of an english speaking background and we love to be ridiculed right back. Our order of preference has changed over the years from English, Americans then anyone else to Ourselves, Kiwis then South Africans.

Rgds ian  

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, November 21, 2006 3:55 PM
And, to my CALI friend, I'm in the North - so, am unable to check that out in person - but, I'll see what I find on line.  Gracias.
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, November 21, 2006 3:54 PM

Ralph:

I love the strange (and the even stranger) - and, your website rocks!!!  I'm about to go spend a bit more time there.  Thank you most sincerely, Elizabeth

PS  This Ridgeback/Slope bit - I have no idea...

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Posted by vsmith on Tuesday, November 21, 2006 2:18 PM
Elizabeth, if your in California (or should I say Koolie-foeniaWink [;)])  have you been to or contacted the Pomona Fairplex layout? Its one of the oldest large scale layouts in the world and still has some of the original 1930's era rolling stock. There is also a newer layout at the Living Desert Exhibit in Indio, and a large layout in Powey at a garnening center, can't remember the name. I'm in SoCal and dont know any large public layouts in Nor Cal.

   Have fun with your trains

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Posted by cabbage on Tuesday, November 21, 2006 1:31 PM
Miss Elizabeth...

I am a UK resident and I own more than a few book on garden railways. Could I suggest the works of Henry Greenley and Curly Lawrence AKA "LBSC" -both of whom lived in the 1920's and I have based my previous layout on much of the information garnered there. I have used some of the designs from LBSC to produce models from and Greenley has provided the initial signalling system and "plank on post" design that I had to use.

regards

ralph

PS I am a "Ridgeback" not a "Slope" although if there had not been an earthquake I would have been born a "Kiwi" in Napier(!)

The Home of Articulated Ugliness

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Posted by tangerine-jack on Tuesday, November 21, 2006 9:33 AM

"Pom" is not normally considered derogatory.  It's like calling an American a "Yank" or a Canadian "Canuk" (hope I spelled it right).  It came from the English skin tone looking rather like a pomegranate to the Australian eyes.  The only thing to watch for is to NEVER, I repeat NEVER, call a Kiwi an Aussie.

The Dixie D Short Line "Lux Lucet In Tenebris Nihil Igitur Mors Est Ad Nos 2001"

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, November 21, 2006 9:05 AM
Ian, What is a Pom?  I live in California (always have) - and, don't understand this term?  I hope it's not derogatory.  As we say here....  Mr. Freezer's 'the bomb'...  he's rad.... always was, still is.  (I read a couple of his books yesterday.)  He's more (much more) than twice my age - but, his ideas remain innovative (he put out an excellent work a couple of years ago - I forget the title right now).  I wish I could sit and chat with him for a few hours.  Elizabeth
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, November 20, 2006 6:03 PM

Cyril looks like a Pom to me, which he is i guess. But seriously i am of the opinion if you get one good idea out of viewing some one elses layout or reading a book you have done well. The one i got out of his book was to do with "getting there". The idea is to put a small foot bridge over a cutting to allow easy access to an area and then this bridge becomes the roof for a tunnel. Very smart and very practical in my opinion.

Rgds ian

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Posted by vsmith on Monday, November 20, 2006 2:28 PM
Mr Freezers book is still avalable, I still reference it I dare say, more so than any other book so far.

   Have fun with your trains

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Posted by Great Western on Monday, November 20, 2006 2:21 PM
Greetings Ian and Elizabeth.
                                                            Just for the record Cyril has written many books particularly relating to railway modelling.   He was for many years editor of the well known British railway modelling magazine called "Railway Modeller".  I first bumped into to Cyril back in the 1960's when we were reviving the Dart Valley Railway.  He was to the fore selling raffle tickets on the train. I often wondered who won the prize of the "Castles at Tyseley" picture.  He is  also a good photograper will the skill of being able to hang upside down to get good shots - so it was rumoured .Big Smile [:D]  It was good to see a pic of him.

  For our American friends I mention that Castles are a class of Great Western locomotive (UK Great Western of course) and Tysley is a famous engine shed/depot in Birmingham, central England.

     Best wishes      Alan

Alan, Oliver & North Fork Railroad

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If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there. Lewis Carroll English author & recreational mathematician (1832 - 1898)

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Posted by Rene Schweitzer on Monday, November 20, 2006 8:11 AM
Contact the folks at the Fairplex Garden Railway. This is a large garden railway that's been open to the public at the LA Couny Fairgrounds for many years: www.fairplex.com

You might also want to contact our editor, Marc Horovitz, about this subject. He is well versed in the history of the hobby.

Rene Schweitzer

Classic Toy Trains/Garden Railways/Model Railroader

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, November 20, 2006 4:14 AM

Here he is, Ian....  Mr. Freezer, looking quite well indeed!  www.uktrainsimlive.com/images/colch2005/Dcp02031.jpg

 

Cheers!

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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, November 19, 2006 9:59 PM

I can tell you Elizabeth he is decades older than me, and i willbe 70 on 23 December. I have seen a photograph of his wife taken in the 50's and she looked a lot like my first wife and was dressed similar to her as well,in the fiftees.

Rgds ian

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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, November 19, 2006 7:53 PM

Thank you.  Mr. Freezer is alive and well!  I've determined that much.... now I will try to locate him.

Elizabeth

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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, November 19, 2006 5:41 PM

The person, who in my opinion would know more about this than anyone else, is Cyril J Freezer (thats his correct name) and he lives or lived in England. I have a book written by him set in the thirties, mainly to do with wind up trains but nevetheless has some good tips on garden railways.

I don't know if he is even still alive but if you could locate him you will get a lot of information.

Ian

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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, November 19, 2006 5:34 PM
Thanks!
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Posted by toenailridgesl on Sunday, November 19, 2006 4:13 PM
Elizabeth,
 Vance Bass did a column on early GRs in an issue of GR mag in the last couple years.
Maybe Rene' will be able to point you towards it.
Phil Creer, The Toenail Ridge Shortline,  Adelaide Sth Oz http://www.trainweb.org/toenailridge toparo ergo sum
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historic garden railways.....
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, November 19, 2006 12:02 PM
Greetings!  I've posed this question of many people - and, have received some interesting information - but, would appreciate more.  I'm researching garden railways set up in the early 20th or late 19th century in public gardens and or arboreta.  Does anyone have any knowledge of said use.  Thank you!  Elizabeth

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