Bachmann 1:20.3 Three-Truck Shay with fitted DCC/Sound

[folkestonekeith]

Have seen that Bachmann have announced that they are releasing the 1:20.3 Three-Truck Shay with on-board dcc/sound.

Basic details are shown on the Bachmann Website but wonder if anyone has got some more information regarding the sound system. I would like to know if they are using a generic sound system or a sound system using the actual sounds of a Three-Truck Shay.

I've already got a Bachmann 2-Truck Shay with a Pheonix Sound System so would hope that the new Bachmann 3-Truck Shay would have a comparable system. Anybody got anymore information.

With many thanks,

Keith

[GearDrivenSteam]

Bachmann and Soundtraxx have something going on. I talked to Allen a little while back, trying to find out if more of the On30 Tsunami equipped Climaxes were going to be made. He said they were not making any more of the Tsunami equipped locos at all. Then out of the blue, Bachmann starts advertising Soundtraxx equipped locos on their site. Strange. I talked with Allen again a few days ago as I have my Shay in for repairs. He said the same thing. That Soundtraxx was no longer making the locos, but Bachmann was now offering. He wouldn't elaborate any further, which makes me think maybe something legal happened. Whatever the case, the Bachmann locos are using the Soundtraxx decoders. If you can find out if they are using the Tsunami, then yes, they will definately sound real. I cannot imagine any of the LC decoders being able to handle the amperage requirements of large scale, so I would think they are using the Tsunami. I have three locos with the Tsunami, and they sound absolutely real.

[cacole]

Ive used a SoundTraxx DSX Sound-Only decoder and SoundTraxx Sierra in several G-scale locomotives, all running from battery power and the AirWire900 wireless DCC system from CVP Products.  The Sierra has a more powerful amplifier than the DSX since it is made specifically for G-scale installations.   I've also used the DSX in HO-scale locomotives, and the Tsunami definitely has a more powerful amplifier than the DSX, so if Bachmann is using a version of the Tsunami in G-scale, it should sound very good.

[Curmudgeon]

The Tsunami for the Shay is OEM, and NOT available to the general public as a separate item.

Exact specifications are not being released by Soundtraxx as they are proprietary under contract.

The units will handle more than 1 amp of normal Tsunamis, but the figures I have been told cause some head scratching.

 

 

[folkestonekeith]

Many thanks for your help guys, I've Bachmann Trains and asked them to let me know what specification sound decoder is being fitted to the 3-truck Shay - custom or generic. Will post their response in due course.

Keith

[GearDrivenSteam]

That's not true. There are generic versions of the Tsunami available from Soundtraxx. I know there is, because I have one. What's not available from anyone is the Tsunami decoder that is specifically made to fit these engines. The plug and play Tsunami for the Shay is only available in the new loco, not seperately. The generic decoders are larger, and will not fit into the tender. If the amperage draw in the G scale Shay is not too high, a generic On30 Tsunami will work in it. You will just have to hard wire it in, because it is a generic "universal" decoder. Here is the link for the Tsunami page from Soundtraxx. http://soundtraxx.com/products/dcc/price.htm As you can see, part number 86120 is labled "light logging" and does list the sounds for a Shay. Trust, I have one, and it sounds great.

[Curmudgeon]

First, I AM an authorized Soundtraxx dealer.

Have been for a LONG time.

From that website:

The TSU-1000LC integrates a digital sound system, lighting effects and a DCC decoder into a single, miniature electronic module rated at 1 Amp.

The issue is NO TSUNAMIs are listed at over one amp that I can find NOR in telephone discussions with Soundtraxx does one YET exist for sale to the general public.

 

The unit in the Bachmann 1:20 is NOT what is used in an over-sized 0n30 loco.

You run a 1 amp decoder in a 1:20 Shay, even a 2-truck, you have serious problems if you want to actually pull anything or hit any gradients.

BIG DIFFERENCE.

Plus, I tried getting info out of Bachmann. Lots of luck. They still don't have full documentation on their EZCommand DCC, and it's been how many years?

 

[GearDrivenSteam]

I wasn't debating your experience as a dealer, or the amperage issue. In fact, if you look at what I said, you'll see I made a comment something to the effect of "if the amperage isn't too high". There was no arguement from me other than the fact that there ARE generic Tsunamis available.

[Curmudgeon]

As long as folks know that these higher-amperage units are NOT going to be available from Bachmann separately nor Soundtraxx (as they are OEM) and if you want to "upgrade" in-kind, you're SOL.

The amperage IS too high to use ANY currently-available Tsunamis, in large-scale for anything bigger than say a Porter.

 

A 3-truck Shay on a 4% grade with 10 loads trips a 4 amp breaker, so you do the math.

A 2-truck on level track running "light" with sound and lights draws about 3/4 amp, so add in cars and ANY grade and you've exceeded the 1 amp capability.

Since we do not know for sure (altho I have been told approximately) the amperage capabilities of the new OEM unit, we wait until one shows up, thro an ammeter in the circuit, and load it until it smokes.

Then we know.

As far as "generic", bets are high this is the Westside Shay they have in their "library" and used in all their Shay sounds.

"generic" can mean anything, even carefully applied white noise.

[Curmudgeon]

I still cannot figure out what the first line in your post stating "That's not true" was addressing.

 

While Tsunamis can be had "generic", this thread is about the Bachmann 1:20 three-truck Shay with Soundtraxx OEM Tsunami.

How exactly are you going to get a "generic" sound out of something that is OEM and specific to a 3-truck Shay?

 

If you are trying to address Tsunamis in general, good.

But that's not the question.

The Tsunami has lots of options (at least the ones available to the general public and not OEM), but what exactly are you trying to answer in the original question?

[folkestonekeith]

Thanks guys for all your comments...but I think my original question may have been misconstrued.

I hope to purchase the Bachmann 3-Truck Shay FITTED with dcc decoder and sound system but before I place my order I want to know what type of sound system is going to be used in the model. Is it going to be a genuine 3-truck Shay sound or some generic steam sound. I hoped someone on this forum might have the information I'm looking for.

I've asked Bachmann UK and all they can tell me is that it will be NMRA compliant. I've asked Bachmann USA but got an autoreply advising they are out of office and will get back to me later. I hope, that in due course, Bachmann USA can provide the information I want.

I want to order the 3-Truck Shay with sound but want to know what's in it before I order. I got stung recently when I ordered a Bachmann UK steam switcher with pre-installed decoder only to find that they had factory-fitted an el-crappo cheap decoder. The 3-Truck Shay costs a lot more than the UK steam switcher so I don't want to make an expensive mistake........

Keith

[GearDrivenSteam]

I use the term generic just as Soundtraxx does. To describe a universal decoder that you can install hardwired into anything. Maybe "universal" would be a better term, but Soundtraxx calls it generic. Generic does not refer to the sound but rather to the fact that the decoder is not made specifically to fit any one particular locomotive. That's what I meant when I said "that's not true". Now, when bringing large scale into the question, it may well be true, since the amperage becomes an issue. I was speaking in literal terms, amperage aside, simply stating that there IS a decoder programmed with Shay specific sounds that was a universal fit to anything you want to put it in, as long as the amperage draw was not too high. Now do you understand?

[Curmudgeon]

And I did answer your questions.

 

Soundtraxx has a sound library of stuff they have recorded.

In the Sierra line, it is a WSLCo Shay.

 

Now, I would really like to challenge you to tell me what sounds different on a 2-truck, 3-cylinder Shay vs. a 3-truck, 3-cylinder Shay.

 

It is an OEM (Original Equipment-Manufacturer) item, made FOR Bachmann BY Soundtraxx but NOT available in the size and current handling capabilities to anyone else AT THIS TIME.

 

Also, Bachmann is 'way behind the curve on documentation, as they are still trying to get info out on their EZCommand DCC.

And that has been a few years.

 

So, for sound, it's from Soundtraxx, it is a Tsunami variant, it IS NMRA Compliant (altho I haven't seen a conformance warrant as of yet).

 

This thread got derailed by mention of "generic" as while that can be an option with regular Tsunamis (not generic as in white noise, but in a mix of bell, whistle, chuff, etc), but this one is SUPPOSED to be FOR a 3-cylinder Shay.

 

If you are looking for specific sounds for specific prototypes that have not existed for decades, you might have to settle for "generic", but as "generic" in this OEM line is not an option at this time, well, until someone actually GETS one and RUNS it and maybe even COMPARES the sound to something known, it can all be labelled "conjecture".

[Curmudgeon]

So, stop with the "generic" talk on decoders when he's asking about specific "sound".

"Is it going to be a genuine 3-truck Shay sound or some generic steam sound."

 

[GearDrivenSteam]

I don't really understand your persistance in arguing. I've agreed to everything you said and tried to clarify my point. Challenge? It's not a challenge at all if you know how Shays work. A three cylinder Shay chuffs twelve times per wheel revolution. A two cylinder Shay chuffs eight times per wheel revolution. Big difference. both of these arrangements can easliy be duplicated with the exhaust cams that are avialable with each decoder. One side of the cam has eight metal strips and guess what? The other side has twelve. Lastly, keep in mind, there is a first post of mine floating around here somewhere that says I am NEW to large scale. Therefore, I am not as familiar with the amperage draws from a large scale locomotive as I am with some of the smaller scales. My other layout for instance, is On30, which I am sure is entirely different in terms of amperage draw. Once again, I think you have missed my intended use of the word "generic". I cannot make it any plainer than in my last post.

[Curmudgeon]

Boy, talk about hit and run.

 

The challenge was to the original poster who wanted the exact 3-truck sound.

He wants the sound.

So the challenge for him was to tell the difference between a two-truck and three-truck Shay.

I'm not arguing.

I'm stating fact. At least those available prior to the release.

Oh, and Tsunami's (including this OEM unit), have no external triggerable sounds on dc.

Automatic, yes, but no way to mount reed switches and make the bell ring and the horn blow.

You can set them for voltage-triggers, but that takes a full DCC system to program.

[Anonymous]

[GearDrivenSteam]

"Boy, talk about hit and run."
Who's running?

[Anonymous]

I would hope Bachmann having gone to the trouble of commissioning a sound system specific to a loco would  go the extra mile to get  the correct sound . I suspect  they will as they seem to be enhancing their  equipment , Would agree that Shay has a unique  sound related to speed and cylinder number , probably the best reason to buy one  I guess - all that noise and motion  for  no speed is fascinating .
I will start saving now  as it looks a good loco to buy .