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Global Warming

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Global Warming
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 6:01 PM

Last time this subject was raised, a few people on this forum indicated that they didn't believe it was happening.

Besides our 1000 year drought here in Australia, a few more unprecedented things have happened which are alarming to say the least.

1) It is snowing in parts of Australia right now and summer is only 2 weeks away.

2) Ice bergs have been sighted off the coast of New Zealand, one is only 70 km from Dunedan on the South Island. Some Kiwis have actual flown out to it on a helicopter and landed on it!

Rgds Ian

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 6:11 PM

I will say it is, Mother Earth is changing and no one knows how, there all guesses.

I lived in a small town and from the back pourch of the house you can tell the differance the Sun is to the Earth now.

But I am not sure I want to use "Golbal Warming" as the name, more like Mother Earth is changing herself to what is the now.

William

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Posted by CB&Q3007 on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 6:27 PM
Also, the poles (magnetic) may be in the process of reversing.  This causes a higher amount of solar radaition to make it to the surface of the earth.  This process is believed to take a few thousand years.  This along with a lot of other cycles that go on with this planet contribute to what we see.  Some of these cycles take a long time to go from one point to another.  Till there is more (level headed) information, I will hold my thoughts on the death of planet earth.

My 2 cents [2c]


Happy wife, happy life
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Posted by Capt Bob Johnson on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 7:01 PM

Rene gonna spank us cause we're really off topic unless we say something like we don't use rattle cans to paint our trains so as not to pollute the atmosphere!  (there, I rescued us)

I don't buy it!  I go with the natural cycle camp!   I think that the cycle is the only way to explain it .  How else do you account for the dinosaur fossils under the ice cap???   It was warm there at one time, then came the ice age, and now it's warming up again!   Another couple of thousand years we'll have ice cap all the way down to Atlanta as it cycles on!

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Posted by tangerine-jack on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 7:52 PM

Yes, there is some truth to the global warming caused by man theory, but the effects are temporary, not permanent.  Before anybody unfairly blames the USA again for destroying the pristine planet (guess every body forgets about London during the industrial revolution, clean that was), remember that China is putting out 500 times the amount of pollution each year than the rest of the world combined.  The USA is reducing its emissions, China is not.

The wild cards are the natural cycles, nobody knows for certain how long the transition time is between ice ages, could be thousands of years, or a few decades.  Facts show that we are still living in the very last remnants of the last ice age, nobody can say how long the interim epoch will last or how hot the Earth gets between ice ages, we could be in for a real sizzler for a few millenniums before the ice comes again.  Where I live (on dry land) we have abundant aquatic fossils at our feet and lots of clay and sand, clearly the area was under water and clearly the sea level was much, much higher eons ago, indicating less glacial ice planet-wide.  At some point the glaciers grew, the sea level dropped and my house was built.  At some point in the future it stands to reason I will have ocean front property, and then at some point after that my house will again be under water as the glaciers melt once more.

Let us not forget that over 98% of all life, plant and animal, which has ever lived, is now extinct.  97.98% of extinctions happened before man ever came on the scene.  Extinction is not failure, it is natural.  Where one species dies off another prospers.

I do my part wherever possible to conserve and preserve, but I don't worry.  One volcano puts enough sulfur and other heinous compounds into the atmosphere as China does in 10 years.

What does all this have to do with Garden Railroads?  Who knows.

The Dixie D Short Line "Lux Lucet In Tenebris Nihil Igitur Mors Est Ad Nos 2001"

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Posted by gvdobler on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 8:28 PM

According to the Discovery Channel, the Earth heats up about every 500 years.  That was their explaination as to why the Vikings were able to travel the routes they took, (not the Minnesota Vikings.)

30 some years ago we were being told we were going to freeze to death.

Everything that ever took place in the world is the US's fault, even the stuff before there was a US.  Everyone knows this. In the words of that great American John Kerry "I apologize for nothing" and "what I meant was all those SUVs belong to my family, not to me" as he boards his private jet burning a couple hundred gallons of Jet-A fuel per hour, on his way to the next Earth First rally.

Maybe you can sell it on Ebay.

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Posted by markn on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 10:48 PM
There was a show recently on the Discovery or History Ch re The Mini Ice Age that covered most of the 1800's-early 1900s,  which sort of explains some of the heavy/layered period dress of  the Victorians,      which we often model on our Garden Railroads-(in case Rene is listeningShy [8)]) In addition to morals of the day, it was a good bit cooler year round.  It follows that today temps are the highest on record went the records started in (US) 1880s during a "mini ice age" I can't imagine spending too much time in the sun during summer nowadays here in Virginia dressed in  red flannel longjohns under a thick wool three piece high collar suit-today's norm of shorts and a tee shirt would have been considered gardening  in the all together.Shock [:O]
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Posted by tangerine-jack on Thursday, November 16, 2006 5:51 AM

Yes this is all very true.  The US was responsible for the dinosaur extinctions as well as Karakatoa exploding.  The US was also responsible for the economic failure of the Roman Empire and it was failed US foreign policy that caused the Crusades.  Kerry voted for global warming before he voted against it as well as single handedly creating Democracy. 

 

The native Americans (aka Indians) wore clothing that covered most of the body except in the very southern climes for thousands of years indicating a cooler climate for the better part of the year, but from the fossil records of the same areas we see wooly mammoths from an arctic climate.  Earlier in the fossil record we can see T-rex and palm trees from a very hot climate indeed.  Clearly the Earth was hot, then cooled, now is hot again.  How much hotter nobody knows for sure, but it is a natural cycle.  Worst case scenario we all move to Siberia and Alaska.

As far as the "mini ice age" goes, there was a lot of volcanic activity over those years that threw up huge amounts of dust, cooling the Earth.  When the dust settled, the Earth returned to normal.  It works the same with man-made emmisions.  When we stop polluting, the Earth recovers very quickly.  We are arrogant to think we can destroy and entire planet when the fact is that the planet will destroy us first.

The Dixie D Short Line "Lux Lucet In Tenebris Nihil Igitur Mors Est Ad Nos 2001"

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Posted by FJ and G on Thursday, November 16, 2006 6:11 AM
Maybe some good will come out of this global warming and my Mexican Heather will grow year round beside the tracks. I just think those garden railroaders in Florida won't be as lucky


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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, November 16, 2006 8:00 AM
Trains...trains......there, got that out of the way.

Ian, my wife just returned from a 3 week cruise from all around New Zealand and Australia. I picked her up at the airport this past Sunday, I was surprised to see it snow in Australia on the news last night.

She loved New Zealand and Australia and if it were possible, move there.


Ok, trains trains......and trains......

dan
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Posted by Capt Bob Johnson on Thursday, November 16, 2006 10:19 AM

TJ,

You forgot that Big Al did the inventing!

You also forgot that the coal and even oil fired belching of black smoke from the steam Locomotives started all this warming, and the continued exhaust of unconsumed hydrocarbons spewed forth from the modern diesel locomotives is merely a continuation of the demise of us all.    It is not possible that all those homes burning whatever for fuel could possibly contribute to global warming(perhaps everybody in the world should set thermostats at 45 degrees).   It is not possible that the body heat given off by so many more people inhabiting the earth than 1,000 years ago could have anything to do with it(now we should outlaw sex?)!

It is my considered opinion that we are not about to fry in my lifetime, my children's lifetimes, or even my grandchildren's lifetimes; so I ain't gonna worry about it!

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Posted by GearDrivenSteam on Thursday, November 16, 2006 10:36 AM
Yeah, it's happening alright. Whether it's global warming because of man, or global warming just for the hell of it, who knows? Along those lines, check this out: http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/News/1999/News-Iceberg.asp   This is about iceberg B10A. It's a small iceberg, "only" as big as Rhode Island, and "only" towers 300 feet above the ocean. Geez, I wonder how deep it is. The article says maybe 1000 feet.  Dam. Now, it's broken free and floating into Antarctic shipping lanes. Nice. That's what I call a whopper john.
It is enough that Jesus died and that he died for me.
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Posted by kimbrit on Thursday, November 16, 2006 10:55 AM

It's all the fault of garden railroaders, are we happy with one loco, not on your life. Do they have to smoke and have sound and bright lights, you bet. There's thousands of us and everytime we run trains that's another degree increase on the old planet. All these industrial plants and airline operators etc etc that belch out CO2 by the ton must really hate us for them getting the blame. Sod it, time for a night run when I get home. hee heeEvil [}:)]

Kim (earth killer)

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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, November 16, 2006 6:05 PM

I personally believe it is happeneing and i certainly would not blame the good old USA, England or any other country in particular, its everyones problem and with emergance of China, watch out for a big acceloratoar..

What about the action in the Amazon quite horrific i think.

That business of the iceberg its the first time since Captain James Cook .discovered the area in 1770.

Something else has happened it has snowed in Queensland about 150 k fromwhere i live and i can drive to the tropic of Capricorn in 4 hours. This is only the 4 th time since WW2 and never before in November since weather records have been kept ie 1848.

Rgds Ian

 

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Posted by ttrigg on Thursday, November 16, 2006 8:44 PM
The only thing constant in life is CHANGE.  Like my dad used to say "Be flexible because life is going to change.  Never take life too seriously because you'll never get out of it alive."

Tom Trigg

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, November 17, 2006 12:36 AM
 iandor wrote:

What about the action in the Amazon quite horrific i think.

Rgds Ian

Ian,

I feel the same as you, it is horrific and we shall pay the price sadly enough.

William

PS my kitbash coming along well.....no photos till finished Evil [}:)]

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, November 17, 2006 6:41 AM
Came out of Walmart with a bag of goodies noticed moon was red.....(4:10am) very weird feeling like the redness of a stoked hole by a fireman.
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Posted by vsmith on Friday, November 17, 2006 10:50 AM
It's all those Live Steamers faultWink [;)]
 
 
I posted something similar over at MLS and it ended up getting blown up over all the angry dissagreements.
 
I'll restate my basic position here..it IS happening. Denying it is to simply put ones head in the sand. The climate for whatever reasons, natural or un-natural, IS warming, and we WILL see the changes in our lifetimes.
 
The question is what are our Fearless Leaders around the planet going to do about it?
 
If the icesheets, glaciers, and permafrost around the world continue to recede, we'll see a true poop storm of accusations flying all over the world trying to pass the buck when real estate like Florida starts dissappearing  under the rising sea.
 
Personally I dont think anything will happen till Florida, the Gulf Coast, New York City etc, starts experiencing the periodic flooding that Bangladesh, Venice, and other lowlying lands have experienced in the past.
 
The thing that really got my goat reading this subject aross the ether was that some people were claiming that they didnt believe it simply because Al Gore was telling them it was happening. Wow thats logical, if Gore said "dont put your hand in a fire or you'll burn yourself" I do beleive some of these guys would instantly thrust there hands into the embers just to proof Gore was wrong....Al is just the messenger, and you can kill the messenger but it doesnt make the news in the message wrong or make it go away.

   Have fun with your trains

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Posted by markperr on Friday, November 17, 2006 11:20 AM

The only thing that our "fearless leaders" can do is take the advice of a few scientists who are on the "man will kill the earth through global warming" side and pass legislation that will relieve us of our hard earned money to put it into programs that will, in all likelyhood, have minimal effect at best on the global climate.

I recently read an article in the December 2006 Discover Magazine about a coal plant that is "green" in that it is near zero emission.  Nothing leaves into the atmosphere except CO2, but even that can be harnessed by the use of an additional capturing device, and that heated CO2 can be pumped deep into wells to help extract oil and natural gas from deep (20,000 feet or better)wells within the earths crust.  Additionally, BP is currently doing just that with one of it's offshore rigs in the North Sea.  It is pumping it's exhaust gases back into the ground into a shale deposit 7000 feet beneath the ocean floor.  The company predicts that there is enough capacity in this shale field to hold all the CO2 emissions from the continent of Europe for the next four hundred years.  They've been doing this for over five years now and have not detected a single leak.

So these people are thinking AND acting unlike a select breed of politician and activist who are far happier screaming "the sky is falling, the sky is falling" than actually doing anything about it.  But hey, at least they care, right.

Mark

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Posted by tangerine-jack on Friday, November 17, 2006 11:25 AM

I fully agree that denying it's happening is foolish.  Finger pointing blame is also foolish as neither scenario gets anything done.  If it is natural, the we must build our homes differently to compensate as our ancestors did and don't worry about it.  If it is not natural, the we must again build our homes differently to compensate and try to not continue doing what caused it in the first place.

Now clarify this for me, did Kerry vote for fire before he voted against it, or did Al Gore invent the fire?  I can never remember for sure.Tongue [:P]

The Dixie D Short Line "Lux Lucet In Tenebris Nihil Igitur Mors Est Ad Nos 2001"

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, November 17, 2006 12:05 PM

Spent late September and early October in China.  Beijing reminded me of Los Angeles in the late 50's, smog so bad you couldn't see any further than 3 blocks from the hotel window.  One day it was almost absolutely clear because of wind shift.  Shanghai was smog free.

But the Chinese are phasing out steam engines; ceased building them and switched to diesels - - - see, on TOPIC by gollies. 

But I didn't have enough time (or maybe enough energy) to ride the new rail line to Tibet.  Imagine having to snort oxygen on a TRAIN!

Art

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Posted by tomikawaTT on Saturday, November 18, 2006 2:38 AM
 vsmith wrote:
 
I'll restate my basic position here..it IS happening. Denying it is to simply put ones head in the sand. The climate for whatever reasons, natural or un-natural, IS warming, and we WILL see the changes in our lifetimes.
 
The question is what are our Fearless Leaders around the planet going to do about it?
 
Hopefully, nothing.  The people who will do something are engineers, industrialists and venture capitalists who will find a way to profit by coming up with ways to get through, over, under or around the effects of climate change.  No situation has ever been so bad that politicians and academics can't make it worse!
 
 
The thing that really got my goat reading this subject aross the ether was that some people were claiming that they didnt believe it simply because Al Gore was telling them it was happening. Wow thats logical, if Gore said "dont put your hand in a fire or you'll burn yourself" I do beleive some of these guys would instantly thrust there hands into the embers just to proof Gore was wrong....Al is just the messenger, and you can kill the messenger but it doesnt make the news in the message wrong or make it go away.
 
Having spent some years of my life in "Gore Country" (Tennessee,) if Al Gore says the sun is rising, I'll demand a second, competent, opinion.
 
Whether the changing climate will make it harder or easier to grow a nice scale landscape for our garden railroads remains to be seen.  My site looks remarkably similar to the surface of Mars.
 
Chuck (Railroading outdoors in the dessicated desert - during the cool months, only)
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Posted by ttrigg on Saturday, November 18, 2006 2:25 PM
If this ain't a kick in the pants.  On Page One, of the San Diego Union Tribune today was an article about global warming.  Some German scientists have a solution for Global Warming.  Just pump more "dirty" pollution into the upper atmosphere and it will shade the earth, thus cooling everything off.

As I understand this guy, we are hurting ourselves by trying to be too clean!

Tom Trigg

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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, November 19, 2006 5:53 PM

I don't think this problem will be solved on this forum and there is some doubt that it is really a problem. But things aren't as they used to be and i think global warming is a very real possibility and we should all try to take a bet each way; just in case.

I saw in the paper this morning that NASA is talking about firing a rocket over the polar caps with more pollution to shade the poles and they think this will stop the ice packs from melting.

Hmm

Ian

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Posted by Capt Bob Johnson on Monday, November 20, 2006 2:35 PM
 iandor wrote:

I don't think this problem will be solved on this forum and there is some doubt that it is really a problem. But things aren't as they used to be and i think global warming is a very real possibility and we should all try to take a bet each way; just in case.

I saw in the paper this morning that NASA is talking about firing a rocket over the polar caps with more pollution to shade the poles and they think this will stop the ice packs from melting.

Hmm

Ian

Probably about as useful and reliable as seeding the clouds ot make rain or kill hurricanes.  

Maybe as reliable as having the American Indian do the rain dance!   Surely if I do the dance each day, someday some rain will fall!   Maybe one time in a thousand it brings prompt results?

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, November 21, 2006 6:27 PM

I don't know about the rain dance Bob. We here in Queensland are very serious about the weather and one day we had an unexpected rainfall during a Surf Carnival and they nearly fired the manager of the weather bureau. Further the state government called in the elders of 5 aborigonal tribes and accused them of having had an authorised Corroboree (similar to a rain dance) and threatened to cut off their funding.

Rgds ian

 

  

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