Battery vs Track power with digital controller

[Anonymous]

Am about to start construction on RR outside. Have some rolling stock and want to operate in a remote mode. What I haven't learned is whether I want to use batteries with some kind of wireless controller, or provide power to the tracks (and other equipment) and use digital command. Any discussion on this? Tks

[Anonymous]

Mark...I am trying to make the same decision. I already have a NCE dcc system for my HO equipment that I could use on the G gauge that I am building. However a decoder is 50 bucks and if you want sound that's another 150. Not sure I want to add 200 dollars to a 180 dollar RS-3. Also if you want to run your engine on some ones elses layout it needs to be compatible. I you want sound on a DC layout then you need a battery for just the sound unit. If you run battery power for the loco then normally you need a box car to carry the power and then some RF type of control and the antenna needed on the engine can be a pain. I am sure I havent cleared up a thing but you can call me if you want. Iam located in Tallahassee...850 893 4138...Sal

[Anonymous]

Hi-

DCC has been used for automatic multitrain operation in garden railroads or combinations of manual and automatic operation. This looks like a good feature to have if you want to run several trains at once or let your guests have a try. For info, search Google for DCC bitswitch garden or check out http://www.dcc-bitswitch.com/bishop's_garden.htm. I will probably use this approach. Does anyone have experience or advice on this?

[Marty Cozad]

I don't know how helpful it will be for you: But I was track power for 8 years then while starting my 4 th RR with over 1400 ft of track choose to go to battery cause I can convert engines for around $13 and run AC TE in a battery car. This allows me to MU any number of locos and sound cars to run at any time. I now have 0 time in track wiring and rail cleaning. I can have guess drop in at a moment notice and bring a train out of the storage shed. My wife tells everyone, I'm a much happier man.[^] I run 3 SD-45s with 40 cars and love it. The cost balances out with power packs VS battery. The last open house was fun cause we had a live steam shay running on the same line as two RC trains and the reverse loop is never a problem. No block control needed. Battery car VS onboard. I can change out the battery car and keep running rather than spending time charging the engines battery.

[Anonymous]

Marty-
I was kind of thinking about this subject today and an interesting question came to mind!! That is, can you run a radio controlled battery loco on a powered track? In essence run two locos with two different types power at the same time? I am thinking you can but the rc loco must be modified as to not short out the rails. Have you ever seen or heard of this type of operation? Looking forward to your reply.
Pete

[Marty Cozad]

Peter
All of mine do that. I run at shows on others track power layouts. Some of us bring them to run at open houses of track power folks cause that is usually when they have problems. As with Aristo Craft, I cut the wires coming from the truck pickups and install a DPDT switch so they are either or. Plus I scratch build all my own turn outs so they are direct shorts and it make it easier to build a switch not worring about the insulators. E-mail me if i can help. [e-mail].[^]

[Anonymous]

I am a newbe to doing anything electric in a garden railway. I have been in R/C live steam exclusively until recently when I bought a Bachman Climax and converted it to battery and R/C for my steam friendly layout.

So just as a casual observation from one not so experienced in this area, it seems counterproductive to spend a good deal of money on a system for independent locomotive operation such as DCC, then still have all the attendent difficulties of track power. I am not ANTI track power, I just think that there are probably better solutions for a railroad exposed to the elements.

A radio controlled locomotive with batteries on board has a lot of advantages. You can either follow the train in operation or if your radio reception is good enough, sit back and watch your train run. There is never a worry about dirty track. As a live steamer, I can tell you my track is ALWAYS dirty. And is this a consideration? Would you ever consider adding live steamers to your roster? They make track dirty fast, so with track power and DCC, pickup would again be a problem.

Since your layout is new, the economic factors can be weighed from the prospective of a clean slate. Good rail joining and other techniques for track power as well as ample wiring require effort and expense, they are not free. Neither is a good power pack, or a number of them. Does your track plan include reversing loops? sidings that will be de-energized when the turnout is thrown against it (directionally routed power)? this is a wiring consideration, too. With self contained locomotives, either live steam, live diesel or battery, there is no consideration necessary for the track as an electrical conductor. It's just a track, just as in the prototype.

Battery power is not free,either, but it does not have to be as expensive as some outfitters of equipment lead you to believe. There are "AA" batteries in existence that can deliver 2 amperes of current for more than an hour, and they cost about $1.00 apiece. The 10 battery pack I made from the "AA" batteries will run my Bachman Climax, a two motor locomotive, for about 1 1/2 hours pulling a six car train, headlights and fire effecs blazing. Look at www.batteryspace.com You can use speed controllers from model race cars like the Novack "Spy" which costs about $60.00, and an inexpensive R/C transmitter and receiver such as the Futaba Attack SR which is another $50.00.

Depending on your requirements for running multiple locos, you may buy one or two complete transmitter/receiver setups then buy receivers only for the rest of your locomotives. For my steamers, I have two transmitters and four locomotives, I just switch transmit crystals depending on which locos I am using.

With the electric setup I just described, only one channel of the two channel R/C is utilized. If you want to get fancy, you can have one loco on one of the channels, and another on the other channel. You could control two locomotives from the same transmitter, one transmitter stick for each loco.

A down side to battery power is charging, but with the smart charger available from www.batteryspace.com ($49.95) these batteries can often be charged in less time than their running time.

Another down side to batteries is the work required to convert a locomotive. If you are electrically and mechanically handy, this is less of a problem. Some locos are easier than others, but my first and only was a Bachman Climax for which some battery outfitters suggest a trail car only. Where there is a will, there is a way. There is no room for sound in this loco after conversion, but that is a personal choice. With the newer NiMH batteries available now, fitting in batteries just got easier.

Oh by the way, another positive for battery power is that you have constant voltage available for lighting, sound, smoke, effects or whatever. Another thing to consider is that if you completely disconnect the electrical pickups in your locomotives during the battery conversion, there is no danger of shorting out when running on a track power layout, DCC layout, or whatever. Unlike other forms of power or control, you can now run on anyone's railroad with anyone's motive power. I once doubleheaded my R/C-battery powered Climax with my live steam scratchbuilt 14 ton Shay. Now that's a combination!

So there you have it. Am I pro-battery, guess so, but after suffering with small scale track power for many years, I find self-contained locomotives, whatever the power source, and R/C a welcome relief

[Anonymous]

I have written a manual for converting to battery operation. You can find it at www.bagrs.org and go to the tips and techniques page. DCC makes no sense for outdoor operation as you still have to clean the tracks. Use radio control and NiMH batteries. Even in a trail car NiMH batteries are much lighter and have more power than lead-acid batteries and are much more flexible for space configurations-- one user has put the round batteries in logs on a flat pulled by a Shay. All my engines have the batteries built in the engine with an external plug for a trail car if needed. My Shay, for instance, has 12 sub-C cells, locolinc, soundlinc and speaker all in the "bunker" and runs for three and half hours on a charge. I would love to see someone make a direct to cab radio link for DCC as the DCC equipment is good and also cheap. You MUST disconnect any wires going to the rails but then you can operate on any layout with no problems.

[Anonymous]

Hi,
I am from New Zealand and I also have just started with G scale as an "extention" to my HO modeling of 26 years, and I have decided from the start to go with R/C and battery power. I purchased a Bachman Big hauler "Tweetsie" set to start with which I have done some modification to in order to run on battery power. As an experiment I wired in a small electronic socket and plug on the loco and put a 14.4 Volt battery pack of a Cordless drill on the flat car. I hooked this up with crocodile clips and let the train run on a 12 ft oval track with all the cars of the set plus a caboose. Well, I was blown away by the fact that it went for about 4 hours on a fully charged battery. But realistically a 3 hour period would be about average. Like Les, I have also been looking at the cheap R/C cars available with the idea of using the speed controller from one. By the way, the drill only cost me me NZ$49 and it came with 2 batteries, I have had a good look in the tender and figured I can install the battery with all the RC gear in it and maybe still retain the sound system if I relocate it. I will have to increase the "coal" load or make it an oil fired loco.
Rob.

[Anonymous]

Just to clarify. Denby mentions 'cheap' R/C cars. To me this implies toys. I do not buy inexpensive R/C 'toys' and gut them for components. I only use race quality components such as Novack, Futaba and JR. I have found that the more inexpensive R/C vehicles do not have proportional speed controls, they are either full forward or full reverse. When you get up to the caliber of vehicle that has proportional control, it costs about the same amount as the individual components I talk about, and the radio control does not have as good a range. Some of the more costly Radio Shack vehicles might fit the bill, but look at the voltages they run on. Some are 7.2V or 8.4V. My Climax ran quite slow on those voltages. If you do want to experiment with ready made vehicles as a source of battery R/C, wait 'till after Christmas, They'll all be on sale.

[Anonymous]

I don't no about anyone else ,but if your going to run a train outdoors without a roof there is is weather to contend with. I was looking through the past posts and noticed a lot of people did not like the new bright battery operated trains. I've had new bright since 1989 and found them perfect for the outdoors. The engines do need weight added to them to attempt any type of grade. The c-cell batteries can be replaced with ni-cad to reduce tender weight.
Track power is kind of shakey. A little moisture and your chasing lines and replacing fuses. I've actually ran mine in the rain with no problems. The track is plastic. Even the brass track works if no power is applied. With all the R/C stuff this is the perfect way to control your line. From the comfort of my lawn chair I can control the train, switches, and couplers. I also have a budget. I will trade a little kitbash work for the extra money.
I opt for battery over track power in the garden. R.R.M.

[cacole]

Check into the new AirWire 900 being developed by CVP Products of Richardson, Texas, the makers of the Easy DCC System. They are working on a battery powered wireless DCC system for G-scale. As with all such projects, their availability date has already slipped twice. Their first announcement was that it would be available in August 2003; then January 2004; now they say April 2004 -- anyone for January 2005?

Despite all of the delays, I'm waiting them out.

[Anonymous]

I don't know if it will help you decision but I just started up and I converted my Aristo and USA to Lionel TMCC with sound. I decided that it eliminated the cost and complexity of blocking the tracks since it only requires wiring them all together and using the lionel power blocks. have a good one

[Anonymous]

Hi
I have a locomotive that started as a cheap rc toy car and have had no problem with it.
It comes out after a stressfull day when i just cannot be bothered to go through th rigmarole of taking out ththe transformer and controler EctEct I have thought about manual control for a battery locomotive with speed control fwd rev controled from the cab
regards John

[Anonymous]

Yes, Battery R/C is a great way to solve the delimma of track cleaning outdoors.
But I think DCC outdoors with track power isn't such a bad idea. But for one thing, the initial investment is much higher than for battery power trains!

Track power of mult-trains involves significant additional initial investment. Here is my list of things that should be considered if you are using track power DCC multi-train system on your outdoor pike. Note that the asterisk (*) items may need continual attention as your empire grows.

*(1) a cleaning locomotive and/or *(1) cleaning pads and timely manual labor.
(2) conductive paste and/or rail clamps for electrical conductivity
*(3) access to tunnel sections or far reaches of trackage if without cleaning loco
(4) excellent grade of wiring
(5) adequate water drainage
*(6) adequate amperage /current
(7) surge protected and safe power sources
(8) adequate quality of metal (brass, ns,etc.) track to conduct power
(8) sub-blocks insulated for power routing of dcc boosters and reverse loops

The layout for my brother is going to include all the above items; DCC isn't for everybody that's for sure, but I believe our initial extra money and work will produce a layout that is friendly with our indoor layouts and reliable for enjoyment (my brother being a electrical guru will help!!).

If the above is accomplished, Here are some of our positive results:

(1) All newly purchased LGB locos need no mods for running on any layout
(2) All decoder-equipped locos seemlessly transfer from any of our layouts
(3) Sound systems are simple to install because they have DCC decoders built-in
(4) All loco features incl. smoke,light,sound,talk,etc. will be controlled from handhelds
(5) Radio-control is available when needed
(6) System is "non proprietary" whereby we can choose decoders, boosters,etc. from
any NMRA compliant dcc manufacturer.
(7) Unlimitted lighting, animation , signal and turnout control , incl. with computer operations
(8) We can upgrade our DCC system but need not replace decoders.

[Anonymous]

[#ditto] [bow]