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G is for Gripers

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G is for Gripers
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, September 7, 2003 12:10 PM
I have been Garden Railroading outside for 2 seasons and have found absolutely no reason to complain about one thing. I have heard nothing but accolades from people who have seen my simple layout. I have nothing else to do but expand and improve what I have and am quite excited about the future of my garden railroad. I am not concerned about the scale/gauge issue or cost or availability of different types of models. If something is not to scale I will find something that is, if an item is too expensive I will do without or save up to buy it. I am not going to let this hobby consume me. I am going to consume it!! All I have been seeing on these forums is people exchanging complaints about the above mentioned issues. How about telling us all about something you did to make your layout better or some other constructive positive debate. Lets get outside and run trains. G is for Garden not Griping. Good Day and Happy Railroading.
Pete
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G is for Gripers
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, September 7, 2003 12:10 PM
I have been Garden Railroading outside for 2 seasons and have found absolutely no reason to complain about one thing. I have heard nothing but accolades from people who have seen my simple layout. I have nothing else to do but expand and improve what I have and am quite excited about the future of my garden railroad. I am not concerned about the scale/gauge issue or cost or availability of different types of models. If something is not to scale I will find something that is, if an item is too expensive I will do without or save up to buy it. I am not going to let this hobby consume me. I am going to consume it!! All I have been seeing on these forums is people exchanging complaints about the above mentioned issues. How about telling us all about something you did to make your layout better or some other constructive positive debate. Lets get outside and run trains. G is for Garden not Griping. Good Day and Happy Railroading.
Pete
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, September 7, 2003 8:22 PM
Hey Pete! You bet, I'm getting a great kick out of my still under construction, not much more than a loop, steam powered Garden Railroad! I have a job, this is my fun time.... I learn new stuff, use long ago dormant skills, actually enjoy the backyard and consider myself real lucky! It's not scale? Oh, Well..... I retired from 1/48 model aircraft and the like after 35 years, got tired of folks crying about " the wrong color, the wrong tires, the seat belt don't look like that..... (oh, sorry, I only work on this stuff for real, silly me). Yep, Gripeing (?) goes along way, but not in my yard, come on in, sit a while and enjoy, the real world is just outside the gate ........
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, September 7, 2003 8:22 PM
Hey Pete! You bet, I'm getting a great kick out of my still under construction, not much more than a loop, steam powered Garden Railroad! I have a job, this is my fun time.... I learn new stuff, use long ago dormant skills, actually enjoy the backyard and consider myself real lucky! It's not scale? Oh, Well..... I retired from 1/48 model aircraft and the like after 35 years, got tired of folks crying about " the wrong color, the wrong tires, the seat belt don't look like that..... (oh, sorry, I only work on this stuff for real, silly me). Yep, Gripeing (?) goes along way, but not in my yard, come on in, sit a while and enjoy, the real world is just outside the gate ........
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, September 7, 2003 9:11 PM
Slick1-
Slick1 is not counting rivets and neither am I. Good to see it. Thanks for the breath of fresh air!! Not many weekends left to enjoy the garden and railway. I hope you had a good operating season.
Pete
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, September 7, 2003 9:11 PM
Slick1-
Slick1 is not counting rivets and neither am I. Good to see it. Thanks for the breath of fresh air!! Not many weekends left to enjoy the garden and railway. I hope you had a good operating season.
Pete
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, September 8, 2003 2:14 AM
YES! I could not agree with BOTH of you more! Pete, (pfd586) see my response to you regarding Live Steam engines. You sound like a closet steamer to me. :-)

It is first and foremost about FUN to me. What little scaling I do, I like to stay within reason, but my 1:22.5 Loco pulls a 1:24 consist. God forbid!!!

I love and appreciate a good artistic HIGHLY detailed layout. That SOMEONE else has built. My priority is the loco. A steam loco. The way the big ones are.

There are a LOT of different motives for getting into this hobby. I respect and admire ALL of them. And talent comes from all directions.

For me, I'd rather spend my $$$ on a high end steam loco than on wiring, labor to solder and join rails, and sound systems to imitate the sound my loco already makes on its own. In the end, I see the electric modelers spending about the same on these necessities that mine does not need. It comes out about the same in the end.

But then, those guys don't have to worry burnt fingers and oil all over the track. :-)

Peace,

LDH
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, September 8, 2003 2:14 AM
YES! I could not agree with BOTH of you more! Pete, (pfd586) see my response to you regarding Live Steam engines. You sound like a closet steamer to me. :-)

It is first and foremost about FUN to me. What little scaling I do, I like to stay within reason, but my 1:22.5 Loco pulls a 1:24 consist. God forbid!!!

I love and appreciate a good artistic HIGHLY detailed layout. That SOMEONE else has built. My priority is the loco. A steam loco. The way the big ones are.

There are a LOT of different motives for getting into this hobby. I respect and admire ALL of them. And talent comes from all directions.

For me, I'd rather spend my $$$ on a high end steam loco than on wiring, labor to solder and join rails, and sound systems to imitate the sound my loco already makes on its own. In the end, I see the electric modelers spending about the same on these necessities that mine does not need. It comes out about the same in the end.

But then, those guys don't have to worry burnt fingers and oil all over the track. :-)

Peace,

LDH
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, September 8, 2003 6:40 PM
Check out my video at www.hubdiv.org/pictures.htm The sound is just from the train. No sound system, just metal on metal. Sound systems are a big waste of money.
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, September 8, 2003 6:40 PM
Check out my video at www.hubdiv.org/pictures.htm The sound is just from the train. No sound system, just metal on metal. Sound systems are a big waste of money.
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Posted by vsmith on Monday, September 8, 2003 6:44 PM
To pfd586, Good Points,
Yes this is about fun, and what ever makes you grin is what you should do, but each of us has a different definition of fun. For some its switching cars back and forth, some its running long mainline type trains, others its an industrial shortline, for me its modeling. But for me it can be frustrating because of the lack of a great deal of things that are missing in this gauge and shouldnt be after 20 years.

Anyone who has read my posts in the pasts knows I can be a bit of an alligator-mouth talking about what our hobby needs, but I'm not complaining at all about our hobby. I dig (no pun) this scale and what I'm doing in it. I got vanquished from the garden by she-who-must-be-obeyed and now I am working on a large-scale indoor layout. So I am pushing for a finescale indoor layout and what I have found is what a lack of good quailty detailing parts, buildings, etc. that there is out there. I want to do detailed locos and buildings but its tough given the selection of aftermarket suppliers, thats the main drive of my posts.

What I am pushing for is MORE stuff for us at reasonable prices. If you compare what is avalible in O,HO, even N to G gauge its pretty slim in comparison, so I want to push manufacturers to give us more choices in rolling stock, locos, diesels, buildings, etc. If we have a good selection of the same things other modelers take for granted it gives the modeler a better opportunity to be creative. I am not a rivit-counter nor have I ever been but I feel its not right that G guage is ignored by the majority of model RR manufacturers.

I know its their business and they will produce what they want but look at Bachmann. A few years ago their battery operated Big Haulers line was laughed at by "serious" modelers, now the Big B is a huge mover-and-shaker in this scale and a lot of those same modelers are starting their own garden layouts and I'm sure they are finding out like me their is a BIG difference in the perception of this scale compared to HO or N, thats what I want to change. Hence my occasional rants.

Personally if Playmobile trains and birdhouse structures (extreme example but I have seen it done and it looks great) placed around a simple loop is what floats your boat, by all means do it! This is about fun but please be patient with those of us who want to do more than just the basics, and thanks for posting your opinion, thats what this forum is all about.

P.S. to Slick1:
I know what you mean about the model airplane nutjobs. At a model show I once saw two guys almost come to blows because both had modeled the same F4 phantom aircraft that was on display outside of an airbase and they were arguing over who's was more "acurate". I mean down to the scale hight of lettering and dis-colorations. Model train rivit-counters dont have nothing on those guys...I stopped worrying about "prototyping" after that. I'd rather it looked really "good and detailed" more than it being "accurate to prototype".

   Have fun with your trains

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Posted by vsmith on Monday, September 8, 2003 6:44 PM
To pfd586, Good Points,
Yes this is about fun, and what ever makes you grin is what you should do, but each of us has a different definition of fun. For some its switching cars back and forth, some its running long mainline type trains, others its an industrial shortline, for me its modeling. But for me it can be frustrating because of the lack of a great deal of things that are missing in this gauge and shouldnt be after 20 years.

Anyone who has read my posts in the pasts knows I can be a bit of an alligator-mouth talking about what our hobby needs, but I'm not complaining at all about our hobby. I dig (no pun) this scale and what I'm doing in it. I got vanquished from the garden by she-who-must-be-obeyed and now I am working on a large-scale indoor layout. So I am pushing for a finescale indoor layout and what I have found is what a lack of good quailty detailing parts, buildings, etc. that there is out there. I want to do detailed locos and buildings but its tough given the selection of aftermarket suppliers, thats the main drive of my posts.

What I am pushing for is MORE stuff for us at reasonable prices. If you compare what is avalible in O,HO, even N to G gauge its pretty slim in comparison, so I want to push manufacturers to give us more choices in rolling stock, locos, diesels, buildings, etc. If we have a good selection of the same things other modelers take for granted it gives the modeler a better opportunity to be creative. I am not a rivit-counter nor have I ever been but I feel its not right that G guage is ignored by the majority of model RR manufacturers.

I know its their business and they will produce what they want but look at Bachmann. A few years ago their battery operated Big Haulers line was laughed at by "serious" modelers, now the Big B is a huge mover-and-shaker in this scale and a lot of those same modelers are starting their own garden layouts and I'm sure they are finding out like me their is a BIG difference in the perception of this scale compared to HO or N, thats what I want to change. Hence my occasional rants.

Personally if Playmobile trains and birdhouse structures (extreme example but I have seen it done and it looks great) placed around a simple loop is what floats your boat, by all means do it! This is about fun but please be patient with those of us who want to do more than just the basics, and thanks for posting your opinion, thats what this forum is all about.

P.S. to Slick1:
I know what you mean about the model airplane nutjobs. At a model show I once saw two guys almost come to blows because both had modeled the same F4 phantom aircraft that was on display outside of an airbase and they were arguing over who's was more "acurate". I mean down to the scale hight of lettering and dis-colorations. Model train rivit-counters dont have nothing on those guys...I stopped worrying about "prototyping" after that. I'd rather it looked really "good and detailed" more than it being "accurate to prototype".

   Have fun with your trains

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, September 8, 2003 9:27 PM
Greetings:

I just think that those of us that have gotten involved with G scale were well aware from the very beginning, that the hobby is the way it is, compared to the other scales.

Look at the toyish appearance of O and OO with that crazy 3 railed track. It's toyish because the track is not in anyway realistic to prototype.

N and HO is modeled in an indoor controlled environment with enough space to provide reasonably talented people with the opportunity to create interesting vingnettes of railroad scenes and functionality.

In G scale, most of us want to lend a little action to our weeds and flowers. If we can toss in a couple of autos and houses and the like then it will look like something. This year I had a great time weeding, pruning down dwarf alberta spruce and dwarf boxwood to look like mini trees. I even took some type of weeds and bonzaied them into trees. The clover and some other type of weed looks like bushes. I don't even care what the name is because to me its a bush. My daughter , (design consultant 11yrs old.) and I spent the good part of last saturday building a trackside shanty out of wood from fruit crate wood(good stuff if you can get one). We had a great time, and it looks good too.

I bet not many indoor guys let there 11yr olds consult for them.

Perhaps another G scale catagory for this forum should be started. With the title being "Fine Scale Garden" or just "Fine Scale" That way they can all get together and cry on each others shoulders about how bad it is.

Keeping my steam up',
Pete
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, September 8, 2003 9:27 PM
Greetings:

I just think that those of us that have gotten involved with G scale were well aware from the very beginning, that the hobby is the way it is, compared to the other scales.

Look at the toyish appearance of O and OO with that crazy 3 railed track. It's toyish because the track is not in anyway realistic to prototype.

N and HO is modeled in an indoor controlled environment with enough space to provide reasonably talented people with the opportunity to create interesting vingnettes of railroad scenes and functionality.

In G scale, most of us want to lend a little action to our weeds and flowers. If we can toss in a couple of autos and houses and the like then it will look like something. This year I had a great time weeding, pruning down dwarf alberta spruce and dwarf boxwood to look like mini trees. I even took some type of weeds and bonzaied them into trees. The clover and some other type of weed looks like bushes. I don't even care what the name is because to me its a bush. My daughter , (design consultant 11yrs old.) and I spent the good part of last saturday building a trackside shanty out of wood from fruit crate wood(good stuff if you can get one). We had a great time, and it looks good too.

I bet not many indoor guys let there 11yr olds consult for them.

Perhaps another G scale catagory for this forum should be started. With the title being "Fine Scale Garden" or just "Fine Scale" That way they can all get together and cry on each others shoulders about how bad it is.

Keeping my steam up',
Pete
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Posted by vsmith on Tuesday, September 9, 2003 10:04 AM
pfd586
It sounds like your having a lot of fun with your layout and again thats great and I hope you continue to grow your layout and garden as time goes on.

I guess my rants are more directed at the magazine editors and manufacturers who monitor this forum. Alot of what goes into the magazine is based on what is monitored on these forums and I'm sure alot of manufacturers also monitor this and other forums to see where the pulse of their hobby is at.

I know I am in a severe minority in G guage being indoors. But as time progresses and the 50+ year old modelers get older and cant see their N and HO trains anymore I've noticed they seem to migrate over to O or G gauge. It seems to me that there could be a larger marketshare for manufacturers in G gauge if they began to cater in G to those who are used to finescale available in every other scale. Bachmann has really raised the bar with their Spectrum line, even LGB has upped the detail on their locos. Compare the first gen 2-6-0 mogul with its christmas tree colors (bright red, lots of gold) to the more realistic moguls offered today (I still cant afford one though, thanks above for Bachmann's 2-6-0) so it does all depend on what your overall goal is.

3-rail O tinplate types manage to be effective because Everything is tinplate so the illusion is carried throughout the layout. Thats why they work. Put a tinplate on a O 2-rail finescale layout and of course the illusion is lost. Same for the Garden, its very forgiving and allows for alot of freedom when it comes to the look of it. Indoors is just like doing any other HO or N layout in that the technics are the same only the trains are WAY bigger (but I dont spend 15 minutes rerailing a trains) so you have to up the ante when its time to detail the trains and thats hard when your supply of parts is limited.

Thats all I'm saying.

And I would always let an 11 year old consult on my layout, because they can be brutally honest about what does and doesnt work.

   Have fun with your trains

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Posted by vsmith on Tuesday, September 9, 2003 10:04 AM
pfd586
It sounds like your having a lot of fun with your layout and again thats great and I hope you continue to grow your layout and garden as time goes on.

I guess my rants are more directed at the magazine editors and manufacturers who monitor this forum. Alot of what goes into the magazine is based on what is monitored on these forums and I'm sure alot of manufacturers also monitor this and other forums to see where the pulse of their hobby is at.

I know I am in a severe minority in G guage being indoors. But as time progresses and the 50+ year old modelers get older and cant see their N and HO trains anymore I've noticed they seem to migrate over to O or G gauge. It seems to me that there could be a larger marketshare for manufacturers in G gauge if they began to cater in G to those who are used to finescale available in every other scale. Bachmann has really raised the bar with their Spectrum line, even LGB has upped the detail on their locos. Compare the first gen 2-6-0 mogul with its christmas tree colors (bright red, lots of gold) to the more realistic moguls offered today (I still cant afford one though, thanks above for Bachmann's 2-6-0) so it does all depend on what your overall goal is.

3-rail O tinplate types manage to be effective because Everything is tinplate so the illusion is carried throughout the layout. Thats why they work. Put a tinplate on a O 2-rail finescale layout and of course the illusion is lost. Same for the Garden, its very forgiving and allows for alot of freedom when it comes to the look of it. Indoors is just like doing any other HO or N layout in that the technics are the same only the trains are WAY bigger (but I dont spend 15 minutes rerailing a trains) so you have to up the ante when its time to detail the trains and thats hard when your supply of parts is limited.

Thats all I'm saying.

And I would always let an 11 year old consult on my layout, because they can be brutally honest about what does and doesnt work.

   Have fun with your trains

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, September 9, 2003 11:36 AM
Pete: (pfd586)

I just checked out the video. NICE! Great rail sound!

Looks like a nice POWERFUL Diesel/Electric too. What is it? Did I count a consist of 8 in one scene, (Including the Caboose)? I've heard several electric folks comment on being unable to pull a consist over 5 with a single loco, but I'm REALLY naive when it comes to sparkies.

Lee
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, September 9, 2003 11:36 AM
Pete: (pfd586)

I just checked out the video. NICE! Great rail sound!

Looks like a nice POWERFUL Diesel/Electric too. What is it? Did I count a consist of 8 in one scene, (Including the Caboose)? I've heard several electric folks comment on being unable to pull a consist over 5 with a single loco, but I'm REALLY naive when it comes to sparkies.

Lee
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Posted by vsmith on Tuesday, September 9, 2003 3:27 PM
The video shows what looks like a USA trains NW2 switcher.

My Annie groans along slowly with 5 cars behind it and my Aristo PA1 also groans at 5 cars and thats with 2 motors, of course it could also be a bad power supply. A powerfull transformer and clean track can do wonders for engine performance. That NW2 does a nice job af pulling its consist.

   Have fun with your trains

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Posted by vsmith on Tuesday, September 9, 2003 3:27 PM
The video shows what looks like a USA trains NW2 switcher.

My Annie groans along slowly with 5 cars behind it and my Aristo PA1 also groans at 5 cars and thats with 2 motors, of course it could also be a bad power supply. A powerfull transformer and clean track can do wonders for engine performance. That NW2 does a nice job af pulling its consist.

   Have fun with your trains

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, September 9, 2003 8:34 PM
Hello Folks-
That NW2 is an animal!! USA Trains product. I have pulled everything I have got with it, 11 cars. I like to run about 6 to 8 cars. I am glad you liked the video. I plan to do another soon.
Peter
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, September 9, 2003 8:34 PM
Hello Folks-
That NW2 is an animal!! USA Trains product. I have pulled everything I have got with it, 11 cars. I like to run about 6 to 8 cars. I am glad you liked the video. I plan to do another soon.
Peter
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Posted by Trainnut484 on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 9:07 AM
Hello Pfd586,

I'm an HO modeler, but I really enjoyed your video. I especially liked the shots from the caboose, flat car, and the runbys. The night scenes were great too. I hope to see your next video soon.

Take care[:)]

Russell
All the Way!
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Posted by Trainnut484 on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 9:07 AM
Hello Pfd586,

I'm an HO modeler, but I really enjoyed your video. I especially liked the shots from the caboose, flat car, and the runbys. The night scenes were great too. I hope to see your next video soon.

Take care[:)]

Russell
All the Way!
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 7:12 PM
Russell:
That video was taken from Canon PowerShot G1 digital camera. The camera lets you take 30 second video clips. I have a 64meg memory card so it holds a few clips before you have to unload it onto the computer. I was amazed at how it came out. The camera works well with low light. I will be doing another one soon. Thanks.
Peter
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 7:12 PM
Russell:
That video was taken from Canon PowerShot G1 digital camera. The camera lets you take 30 second video clips. I have a 64meg memory card so it holds a few clips before you have to unload it onto the computer. I was amazed at how it came out. The camera works well with low light. I will be doing another one soon. Thanks.
Peter
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, September 15, 2003 3:54 PM
To pdf586

I have to disagree with you Pete, about sound systems being a BIG WASTE OF MONEY. Your video was good, but not great, too much space with NO SOUND and besides you're running a diesel.

A STEAM engine SOUNDS so much better WITH SOUND, especially the geared locos like the SHAY and the CLIMAX.

I'm old enough to remember all of the wonderful sounds of the Southern Pacific steam engines climbing the Sierra Mountains on their way to Donner Pass with the echos of the horns tooting as they made their way through the snow sheds... Ah, yes, brings back many fond memories.

And the sound systems they have today sound so realistic. If you CAN afford them, they're well worth the cost for all the current advancements!

Have fun with your trains.
Scotty55
San Diego, CA
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, September 15, 2003 3:54 PM
To pdf586

I have to disagree with you Pete, about sound systems being a BIG WASTE OF MONEY. Your video was good, but not great, too much space with NO SOUND and besides you're running a diesel.

A STEAM engine SOUNDS so much better WITH SOUND, especially the geared locos like the SHAY and the CLIMAX.

I'm old enough to remember all of the wonderful sounds of the Southern Pacific steam engines climbing the Sierra Mountains on their way to Donner Pass with the echos of the horns tooting as they made their way through the snow sheds... Ah, yes, brings back many fond memories.

And the sound systems they have today sound so realistic. If you CAN afford them, they're well worth the cost for all the current advancements!

Have fun with your trains.
Scotty55
San Diego, CA
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, September 15, 2003 8:50 PM
My video does no justice to the sound my train makes. That video was produced with no special microphones and was done merely on a whim. All that being considered I think it's a good base to work from. Some peoples computers make it sound like an alien spaceship whizzing past!! I think that a sound system would be the last thing I spend money on, not that I would never buy one, there are alot of other goodies which I feel are more important than realistic diesel sound. However, I do believe that to run an electric steam locomotive would be kind of strange without the sounds of it chugg chugging along. I consider a sound system for a steam loco a must have. Thanks for your imput.
Peter
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, September 15, 2003 8:50 PM
My video does no justice to the sound my train makes. That video was produced with no special microphones and was done merely on a whim. All that being considered I think it's a good base to work from. Some peoples computers make it sound like an alien spaceship whizzing past!! I think that a sound system would be the last thing I spend money on, not that I would never buy one, there are alot of other goodies which I feel are more important than realistic diesel sound. However, I do believe that to run an electric steam locomotive would be kind of strange without the sounds of it chugg chugging along. I consider a sound system for a steam loco a must have. Thanks for your imput.
Peter

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