Elevated layout

[grandpopswalt]

Hi Guys,

I've read all the posts on this subject with great interest. Thanks for the input on using TREX for the base. After many years of reading all the garden Railway magazines and studying dozens of garden railroads, both private and professional, I'm convinced that the ONLY way to go is with an elevated roadbed. 2' high would be the minimum height and 3 1/2' the maximum. I've experimented a little and have come up with a system that can best be described as 3' tall by 4' wide by 8' long "tables". I use 6' tall picket fencing cut in half horizontally. The top half (with the points) is attached to the back of the table and extends upwards from the tabletop to a height of 6'. The bottom half is attached to the front of the table and covers the area from the tabletop to the ground. Thus you have an attractive facia in the front and a view blocking backdrop which affords a certain amount of security and a lot of protection from maurading deer. The legs and all horizontal members are PTL. In my system, the legs are set in 1' deep holes filled with gravel. The tabletop is made of fiberglass corrugated roof panels with drainage holes drilled randomly. Most of the surface is covered with a fine textured mulch like coca husks or very small pinebark nuggets to a depth of about 4". Trees and bushes are left in the container and the pot is "planted" by cutting a hole in the fiberglass. flowerbeds are made of shallow piles of soil which has a high organic content and lots of vermiculite and other lightweight amendments. The roadbed is a 6" layer of crushed rock fines. The track is layed on the roadbed and ballasted with chicken grit. Small wooden cleats are attached to the fiberglass to act as channels for the subroadbed.

Now the disclaimer. I've built two eight foot sections as described above and tinkered with them for about 18 months making changes as new ideas came up. However, based on that experience I think that this system will work out very well. I'm planning to use it to build a 150' point-to-point railroad starting this spring.

[grandpopswalt]

Hi Guys,

I've read all the posts on this subject with great interest. Thanks for the input on using TREX for the base. After many years of reading all the garden Railway magazines and studying dozens of garden railroads, both private and professional, I'm convinced that the ONLY way to go is with an elevated roadbed. 2' high would be the minimum height and 3 1/2' the maximum. I've experimented a little and have come up with a system that can best be described as 3' tall by 4' wide by 8' long "tables". I use 6' tall picket fencing cut in half horizontally. The top half (with the points) is attached to the back of the table and extends upwards from the tabletop to a height of 6'. The bottom half is attached to the front of the table and covers the area from the tabletop to the ground. Thus you have an attractive facia in the front and a view blocking backdrop which affords a certain amount of security and a lot of protection from maurading deer. The legs and all horizontal members are PTL. In my system, the legs are set in 1' deep holes filled with gravel. The tabletop is made of fiberglass corrugated roof panels with drainage holes drilled randomly. Most of the surface is covered with a fine textured mulch like coca husks or very small pinebark nuggets to a depth of about 4". Trees and bushes are left in the container and the pot is "planted" by cutting a hole in the fiberglass. flowerbeds are made of shallow piles of soil which has a high organic content and lots of vermiculite and other lightweight amendments. The roadbed is a 6" layer of crushed rock fines. The track is layed on the roadbed and ballasted with chicken grit. Small wooden cleats are attached to the fiberglass to act as channels for the subroadbed.

Now the disclaimer. I've built two eight foot sections as described above and tinkered with them for about 18 months making changes as new ideas came up. However, based on that experience I think that this system will work out very well. I'm planning to use it to build a 150' point-to-point railroad starting this spring.

[DavidGSmith]

I agree with LDH. I built my outside layout up about 1'0" above the existing grade. It sure took a lot of soil to fill the whole area! If I was starting over I would build it higher. Not getting any younger. Placing equipment on the track and normal maintance are easier with some hieght. The buildings look better if one sees more than just the roof. I guees it is a matter of preference. Check out as many layouts as you can and talk to the owners. I assisted a friend on his layout before doing my own and learned what I liked. I told him I was making all my mistakes on his layout.Some people have no sense of HaHa.
Dave

[DavidGSmith]

I agree with LDH. I built my outside layout up about 1'0" above the existing grade. It sure took a lot of soil to fill the whole area! If I was starting over I would build it higher. Not getting any younger. Placing equipment on the track and normal maintance are easier with some hieght. The buildings look better if one sees more than just the roof. I guees it is a matter of preference. Check out as many layouts as you can and talk to the owners. I assisted a friend on his layout before doing my own and learned what I liked. I told him I was making all my mistakes on his layout.Some people have no sense of HaHa.
Dave

[bman36]

Hey All,
Speaking of fence boards, I have heard of layouts built on top of fences. Anyone else? A fence built with the 2x4 on flat at the top would give just enough room to lay track. If anyone has pictures out there of this done it would be great to see. Later eh...Brian.

[bman36]

Hey All,
Speaking of fence boards, I have heard of layouts built on top of fences. Anyone else? A fence built with the 2x4 on flat at the top would give just enough room to lay track. If anyone has pictures out there of this done it would be great to see. Later eh...Brian.

[dmikee]

I am using redwood fence boards, spliced together lengthwise with redwood lath strips along each board edge for structural stability and a nice trim edge. I support the roadbed at ground level with concrete pavers at each joint. Where it is elevated, I use concrete blocks, some sunk into the ground if a full 8" thickness is not needed, to some set on end for a maximum rise of 16". So far it has worked great! A bonus is that stuff falling on the right of way (leaves, twigs, etc) can be easily blown off before operations and rarely builds up very much.

[dmikee]

I am using redwood fence boards, spliced together lengthwise with redwood lath strips along each board edge for structural stability and a nice trim edge. I support the roadbed at ground level with concrete pavers at each joint. Where it is elevated, I use concrete blocks, some sunk into the ground if a full 8" thickness is not needed, to some set on end for a maximum rise of 16". So far it has worked great! A bonus is that stuff falling on the right of way (leaves, twigs, etc) can be easily blown off before operations and rarely builds up very much.

[Anonymous]

hdavis-
That works out to around 2-3%, not to bad!! If you stretch that out over a considerable length it won't even be a factor.
The issue of scale is one which is hotly debated and discussed on these forum pages from time to time. Given the limited availability of pieces the scales issue in my opinion is better suited for the auxillary aspects of the layout i.e., buildings, autocars, decor. To try and have all your trains in scale is almost impossible. There will be some rolling stock or loco you want, but in the wrong scale, it will drive you crazy. I am of the thought that 1/24 is the most logical because it falls in the middle of the available scales and seems to have the most available commercial items. Control the scale where you can and do the best with everything else. It will look just fine.

As far as power goes, if you plan on running more than one loco at a time you want to think about getting somekind of remote control radio system. This works thru track power and will get the job done. Batteries can give you the same independant loco control with no track conductivity issues. These systems are both costly so its whatever way you want to spend it I guess. If you are looking to just run one train then it is much simpler. Track power with a single transformer.

Have a great time with it!!
Pete

[Anonymous]

hdavis-
That works out to around 2-3%, not to bad!! If you stretch that out over a considerable length it won't even be a factor.
The issue of scale is one which is hotly debated and discussed on these forum pages from time to time. Given the limited availability of pieces the scales issue in my opinion is better suited for the auxillary aspects of the layout i.e., buildings, autocars, decor. To try and have all your trains in scale is almost impossible. There will be some rolling stock or loco you want, but in the wrong scale, it will drive you crazy. I am of the thought that 1/24 is the most logical because it falls in the middle of the available scales and seems to have the most available commercial items. Control the scale where you can and do the best with everything else. It will look just fine.

As far as power goes, if you plan on running more than one loco at a time you want to think about getting somekind of remote control radio system. This works thru track power and will get the job done. Batteries can give you the same independant loco control with no track conductivity issues. These systems are both costly so its whatever way you want to spend it I guess. If you are looking to just run one train then it is much simpler. Track power with a single transformer.

Have a great time with it!!
Pete

[Anonymous]

hay pete, thanks for the infor on the grade. i was thinking about one forth of an inch for each foot. so i was fairly close. the main thing i am having prolbems with is, what scale to go with and type of power .

[Anonymous]

hay pete, thanks for the infor on the grade. i was thinking about one forth of an inch for each foot. so i was fairly close. the main thing i am having prolbems with is, what scale to go with and type of power .

[Anonymous]

gmstm-
If you are planning a elevated structure to place your track make sure you sink the post far enough in the ground so you don't encounter any type of warping caused by heaving in the winter. I'm sure the ground freezes in TN so that is something to consider.

I used the wire mesh method on the deck of the "John Adams" bridge on the GGRW. Over the past 2 years I have lost no stone. It has held up quite nice. Good Luck to you as well, hope you find the forums informative. Remember, keep it fun.
Pete

[Anonymous]

gmstm-
If you are planning a elevated structure to place your track make sure you sink the post far enough in the ground so you don't encounter any type of warping caused by heaving in the winter. I'm sure the ground freezes in TN so that is something to consider.

I used the wire mesh method on the deck of the "John Adams" bridge on the GGRW. Over the past 2 years I have lost no stone. It has held up quite nice. Good Luck to you as well, hope you find the forums informative. Remember, keep it fun.
Pete

[Anonymous]

hdavis -
Please keep in mind that the maximum grade which you want to deal with is 5%. That translates 5 inches of height, either up or down, for every 100 inches of track length. Even 5% is quite steep but that is the max. The reason being is not so much of your train not being able to go up the grade, its when it comes down. The power setting used to get your consist up the grade will be way to much for it to come down. You want to set a speed for the train and let it run. If you have to slow it down to get it down the incline then you will not be a happy camper. Please consider grade when planning your layout. Hope to see more posts by you in the future. Good Luck and have fun.
Pete

[Anonymous]

hdavis -
Please keep in mind that the maximum grade which you want to deal with is 5%. That translates 5 inches of height, either up or down, for every 100 inches of track length. Even 5% is quite steep but that is the max. The reason being is not so much of your train not being able to go up the grade, its when it comes down. The power setting used to get your consist up the grade will be way to much for it to come down. You want to set a speed for the train and let it run. If you have to slow it down to get it down the incline then you will not be a happy camper. Please consider grade when planning your layout. Hope to see more posts by you in the future. Good Luck and have fun.
Pete

[gmstm]

I've also been thinking of building an elevated outdoor railway. LGB put out a how-to book several years ago showing a line built in Europe, Denmark I think. The builder used a wood frame and wire mesh instead of a solid top. The track and structures were placed on the wire mesh. A small size aggregate was spread over the track and open areas. Any rainfall will just pass through the stone and mesh. The track will float and should act like ballasted track laid on the ground.

[gmstm]

I've also been thinking of building an elevated outdoor railway. LGB put out a how-to book several years ago showing a line built in Europe, Denmark I think. The builder used a wood frame and wire mesh instead of a solid top. The track and structures were placed on the wire mesh. A small size aggregate was spread over the track and open areas. Any rainfall will just pass through the stone and mesh. The track will float and should act like ballasted track laid on the ground.

[Anonymous]

SuzyQ;

Some of my spline roadbed has been in place for about ten years with NO expansion or contraction problems. This older section is made from CEDAR rather than TREX. On the newest section TREX was used for the splines and the "feet" under the risers, with the risers them selfs made from treated 2x4 and 2x6 lumber. NO problems on this section either.

Spline roadbed has a resilient quality that allows it to move with changes in temperature so affixing you track should not cause any concern.

My track is all hand spiked rail on redwood ties with each and every tie nailed to the roadbed with NO gauge problems or gaping of the rail sections. SPLINE ROADBED IS A VERY STURDY, RELIABLE AND FLEXABLE ROADBED SYSTEM. I wrote this in upper case to emphasize how much I favor this system.

As far as drainage goes, the spacers between the splines create gapes allowing water to run off quickly.

Your plans to have an elevated track on a mountain side will be easy to buiild with spline roadbed since it can be placed at ANY height (within reason of course) even below grade or in tunnels.

Keep me posted......OLD DAD

[Anonymous]

SuzyQ;

Some of my spline roadbed has been in place for about ten years with NO expansion or contraction problems. This older section is made from CEDAR rather than TREX. On the newest section TREX was used for the splines and the "feet" under the risers, with the risers them selfs made from treated 2x4 and 2x6 lumber. NO problems on this section either.

Spline roadbed has a resilient quality that allows it to move with changes in temperature so affixing you track should not cause any concern.

My track is all hand spiked rail on redwood ties with each and every tie nailed to the roadbed with NO gauge problems or gaping of the rail sections. SPLINE ROADBED IS A VERY STURDY, RELIABLE AND FLEXABLE ROADBED SYSTEM. I wrote this in upper case to emphasize how much I favor this system.

As far as drainage goes, the spacers between the splines create gapes allowing water to run off quickly.

Your plans to have an elevated track on a mountain side will be easy to buiild with spline roadbed since it can be placed at ANY height (within reason of course) even below grade or in tunnels.

Keep me posted......OLD DAD

[Anonymous]

Old Dad;

THanks for the explanations and the advice. I am rather handym have a chop saw, table saw and know I can ruin a good piece of wood in a fes sec with my router! LOL

But, I had thought to use that plastic wood as a base for the track rather than a traditional roadbed. I planned to sorta kerf it for drainage. I now realize that expansion and contraction might be a problem if I affix the track. What are your thoughts? I do intend to have an elevated area up a mountian and maybe with a mountain pass and a trestle bridge. But, I realize that planning is the most important. How do you cope with the heat/freezing contractures?

SuzyQ

[Anonymous]

Old Dad;

THanks for the explanations and the advice. I am rather handym have a chop saw, table saw and know I can ruin a good piece of wood in a fes sec with my router! LOL

But, I had thought to use that plastic wood as a base for the track rather than a traditional roadbed. I planned to sorta kerf it for drainage. I now realize that expansion and contraction might be a problem if I affix the track. What are your thoughts? I do intend to have an elevated area up a mountian and maybe with a mountain pass and a trestle bridge. But, I realize that planning is the most important. How do you cope with the heat/freezing contractures?

SuzyQ

[Anonymous]

Hi suzyQ,
Welcome to the addiction we call Garden Railroading.

To answer your question, splines are the long thin slats that are formed into the roadbed and risers are the legs that hold the roadbed at the height needed.

However, I feel that a spline roadbed system may be a bit premature for someone just getting into garden railroading.
It all depends on your level of skill with a table saw and a few hand tools.

I don't know what your site is like so its hard for me to give advice as to what type of roadbed you should use.

The one thing to remember when just starting out in this hobby is this....KEEP IT SIMPLE,
roadbed, track plan, scope and cost untill you find your way around then expand into the full space you have.

Hope this helps......OLD DAD

[Anonymous]

Hi suzyQ,
Welcome to the addiction we call Garden Railroading.

To answer your question, splines are the long thin slats that are formed into the roadbed and risers are the legs that hold the roadbed at the height needed.

However, I feel that a spline roadbed system may be a bit premature for someone just getting into garden railroading.
It all depends on your level of skill with a table saw and a few hand tools.

I don't know what your site is like so its hard for me to give advice as to what type of roadbed you should use.

The one thing to remember when just starting out in this hobby is this....KEEP IT SIMPLE,
roadbed, track plan, scope and cost untill you find your way around then expand into the full space you have.

Hope this helps......OLD DAD

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by OLD DAD

My track is also built above the ground level on a product made from recycled plastic trash. http://www.trex.com

There may be a French equivalent, check your local building supply outlets.

I hope this helps....OLD DAD

Thank you for your answer ; but I don't find in europe for Trex.

With many & frequently paints , iron may be a good solution specially for change of temperature because dilatation is the same with rail.

Regards

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by OLD DAD

My track is also built above the ground level on a product made from recycled plastic trash. http://www.trex.com

There may be a French equivalent, check your local building supply outlets.

I hope this helps....OLD DAD

Thank you for your answer ; but I don't find in europe for Trex.

With many & frequently paints , iron may be a good solution specially for change of temperature because dilatation is the same with rail.

Regards

[Anonymous]

olddad:

WHAT ARE THE RISERS AND SPLINES? I am VERY new to this. Do you nail the track to the wtrex? I am in MIchigan so am glad to chat with you.

suzyQ

[Anonymous]

olddad:

WHAT ARE THE RISERS AND SPLINES? I am VERY new to this. Do you nail the track to the wtrex? I am in MIchigan so am glad to chat with you.

suzyQ

[Anonymous]

Well Phil, my French is nonexistent and my English is poor so I keep a spell checker close by my side.
Iron will eventually rust and wood will eventually rot. My track is also built above the ground level on a product made from recycled plastic trash. http://www.trex.com

There may be a French equivalent, check your local building supply outlets.

I hope this helps....OLD DAD