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Ballast Glue?

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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, November 8, 2003 4:26 PM
Hi vsmith,

I live in Minnesota and we also have large temp. swings as high as 110 on rare occasions to 35 below zero durring our all to long winters. ALL of our ballast is bonded in place with CONCRETE BONDING ADHESIVE, not glue, as are two other layouts in our area. All these same layouts have every tie in their hand spiked track fastened to some sort of solid sub roadbed and have not had any trouble worth talking about with the track expanding or contracting. My track is built on SPLINE roadbed made of TREX (www.trex.com) 2-3 feet above the ground and is very forgiving with plenty of flex naturally inherent to spline construction. Another is built on treated boards at ground level and the last is on treated boards elevated 2-3 feet above the ground.

And one last NO- NO that I have done without any repercussions of any type is to solder every rail joint on our entire layout. Ours is not a new layout without a track record, 1/3 is over ten years old and the other 2/3 is four years old.

If you will notice in my earlier post I suggested using the BONDING ADHESIVE, not glue, around the moving parts of turnouts not the entire track layout.

May all your weeds also be wild flowers... OLD DAD
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,206 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, November 8, 2003 4:26 PM
Hi vsmith,

I live in Minnesota and we also have large temp. swings as high as 110 on rare occasions to 35 below zero durring our all to long winters. ALL of our ballast is bonded in place with CONCRETE BONDING ADHESIVE, not glue, as are two other layouts in our area. All these same layouts have every tie in their hand spiked track fastened to some sort of solid sub roadbed and have not had any trouble worth talking about with the track expanding or contracting. My track is built on SPLINE roadbed made of TREX (www.trex.com) 2-3 feet above the ground and is very forgiving with plenty of flex naturally inherent to spline construction. Another is built on treated boards at ground level and the last is on treated boards elevated 2-3 feet above the ground.

And one last NO- NO that I have done without any repercussions of any type is to solder every rail joint on our entire layout. Ours is not a new layout without a track record, 1/3 is over ten years old and the other 2/3 is four years old.

If you will notice in my earlier post I suggested using the BONDING ADHESIVE, not glue, around the moving parts of turnouts not the entire track layout.

May all your weeds also be wild flowers... OLD DAD
  • Member since
    November 2002
  • From: along the B&O in INDIANA
  • 211 posts
Posted by yellowducky on Thursday, November 6, 2003 9:35 PM
[:)]My wife wants to know how to unglue me from my chair cause it's her turn on the computer. FDM
FDM TRAIN up a child in the way he should go...Proverbs22:6 Garrett, home of The Garrett Railroaders, and other crazy people. The 5 basic food groups are: candy, poptarts, chocolate, pie, and filled donuts !
  • Member since
    November 2002
  • From: along the B&O in INDIANA
  • 211 posts
Posted by yellowducky on Thursday, November 6, 2003 9:35 PM
[:)]My wife wants to know how to unglue me from my chair cause it's her turn on the computer. FDM
FDM TRAIN up a child in the way he should go...Proverbs22:6 Garrett, home of The Garrett Railroaders, and other crazy people. The 5 basic food groups are: candy, poptarts, chocolate, pie, and filled donuts !
  • Member since
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  • From: Nebraska City, NE
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Posted by Marty Cozad on Thursday, November 6, 2003 9:13 PM
I tried gluing for a season and I've seen others who have. After awhile reguardless of which glue you use. The heat and heavy rains will brake it up and it will be harder to repair than just using your 4" paint bru***o move it around. I have over 1,000 ft outdoors with some long 60' runs that will exspand and lengthen over a couple of inches in the heat.
If you starting and have a smaller amount of track it will only take you minutes to dress up the ballast.
Please keep us posted on how your RR is coming.[^]

Is it REAL? or Just 1:29 scale?

Long live Outdoor Model Railroading.

  • Member since
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  • From: Nebraska City, NE
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Posted by Marty Cozad on Thursday, November 6, 2003 9:13 PM
I tried gluing for a season and I've seen others who have. After awhile reguardless of which glue you use. The heat and heavy rains will brake it up and it will be harder to repair than just using your 4" paint bru***o move it around. I have over 1,000 ft outdoors with some long 60' runs that will exspand and lengthen over a couple of inches in the heat.
If you starting and have a smaller amount of track it will only take you minutes to dress up the ballast.
Please keep us posted on how your RR is coming.[^]

Is it REAL? or Just 1:29 scale?

Long live Outdoor Model Railroading.

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Smoggy L.A.
  • 10,738 posts
Posted by vsmith on Thursday, November 6, 2003 9:22 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by OLD DAD

If you find a need for "glueing" your ballast in place such as around the moving parts of a track turnout I have found that "Concrete Bonding Adhesive" workes very well, it's flexable and can be pried away without damageing your track if need be. I have bought this product at HOME DEPOT.

OLD DAD


The downside is that it will not let your track expand or contract as easily as "floating" ballasted track will. If the temperature range where you live is not that great, then I can see using it, but here in L.A. it can go from 110 in summer to 30 in winter. Some days it can be 100 during the day and 50 at night. thats a 50 degree temp swing in 12 hours and that can play havoc with rails. Floating the track on ballast like a real RR works best. If you screw it down to a board you will need to plan for expansion by leaving a gap (1/4") in the rail joiners every so many feet and use a jumper wire for power. The same should be true for cemented or bonded ballast. If what your doing is working for you then thats great, this is just FYI.

   Have fun with your trains

  • Member since
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  • From: Smoggy L.A.
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Posted by vsmith on Thursday, November 6, 2003 9:22 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by OLD DAD

If you find a need for "glueing" your ballast in place such as around the moving parts of a track turnout I have found that "Concrete Bonding Adhesive" workes very well, it's flexable and can be pried away without damageing your track if need be. I have bought this product at HOME DEPOT.

OLD DAD


The downside is that it will not let your track expand or contract as easily as "floating" ballasted track will. If the temperature range where you live is not that great, then I can see using it, but here in L.A. it can go from 110 in summer to 30 in winter. Some days it can be 100 during the day and 50 at night. thats a 50 degree temp swing in 12 hours and that can play havoc with rails. Floating the track on ballast like a real RR works best. If you screw it down to a board you will need to plan for expansion by leaving a gap (1/4") in the rail joiners every so many feet and use a jumper wire for power. The same should be true for cemented or bonded ballast. If what your doing is working for you then thats great, this is just FYI.

   Have fun with your trains

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,206 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, November 6, 2003 7:24 AM
If you find a need for "glueing" your ballast in place such as around the moving parts of a track turnout I have found that "Concrete Bonding Adhesive" workes very well, it's flexable and can be pried away without damageing your track if need be. I have bought this product at HOME DEPOT.

OLD DAD
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,206 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, November 6, 2003 7:24 AM
If you find a need for "glueing" your ballast in place such as around the moving parts of a track turnout I have found that "Concrete Bonding Adhesive" workes very well, it's flexable and can be pried away without damageing your track if need be. I have bought this product at HOME DEPOT.

OLD DAD
  • Member since
    April 2002
  • From: Wisconsin
  • 1,802 posts
Posted by Rene Schweitzer on Monday, August 18, 2003 1:41 PM
Hi,
vsmith is right--outdoors you do not need glue. If your ballast is crushed rock that has a "tooth" (vs rounded stone) it will hold together on its own. You'll probably want to pick up the October 2003 issue because our railroad series talks about laying track. Or read this article on ballasting:
http://www.trains.com/Content/Dynamic/Articles/000/000/000/116drfab.asp

Rene Schweitzer

Classic Toy Trains/Garden Railways/Model Railroader

  • Member since
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  • From: Wisconsin
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Posted by Rene Schweitzer on Monday, August 18, 2003 1:41 PM
Hi,
vsmith is right--outdoors you do not need glue. If your ballast is crushed rock that has a "tooth" (vs rounded stone) it will hold together on its own. You'll probably want to pick up the October 2003 issue because our railroad series talks about laying track. Or read this article on ballasting:
http://www.trains.com/Content/Dynamic/Articles/000/000/000/116drfab.asp

Rene Schweitzer

Classic Toy Trains/Garden Railways/Model Railroader

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Smoggy L.A.
  • 10,738 posts
Posted by vsmith on Sunday, August 17, 2003 1:26 AM
For outdoors you will not need glue, just lay down the crushed rock (i would follow the advice given in the Klambach guide books for trenching and leveling) put your track down then used a mix of crusher fines and dust then use the dust across the top. the wet it down, the water will carry the rock dust down into the ballast and "lock" it into place. Pick up some Klambake publishing and as many Garden Railroad backissues as you can get, they are doing a series on a layout from scratch that is exactly like what your starting, read up and happy gardening!

   Have fun with your trains

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Smoggy L.A.
  • 10,738 posts
Posted by vsmith on Sunday, August 17, 2003 1:26 AM
For outdoors you will not need glue, just lay down the crushed rock (i would follow the advice given in the Klambach guide books for trenching and leveling) put your track down then used a mix of crusher fines and dust then use the dust across the top. the wet it down, the water will carry the rock dust down into the ballast and "lock" it into place. Pick up some Klambake publishing and as many Garden Railroad backissues as you can get, they are doing a series on a layout from scratch that is exactly like what your starting, read up and happy gardening!

   Have fun with your trains

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,206 posts
Ballast Glue?
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 16, 2003 7:50 PM

My wife purchased a LGB trainset for her flower garden. Yes, I am surprised. She went to a local gravel pit and bought some fine crushed and dust stuff to use as ballast. We are curious as to what ballast glue any of you would recommend.

SouthForkRR
N-Scale
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,206 posts
Ballast Glue?
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 16, 2003 7:50 PM

My wife purchased a LGB trainset for her flower garden. Yes, I am surprised. She went to a local gravel pit and bought some fine crushed and dust stuff to use as ballast. We are curious as to what ballast glue any of you would recommend.

SouthForkRR
N-Scale

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