Power vrs distance

[Anonymous]

Hello again, thanks for you help with the boxcar weight issues. i have another question, I am currently laying out my track over quite a large area. My wife and I live on 10 acres of land all landscaped by the previous owner. (takes me five hours to cut it using a garden tractor) I have spent the last four days laying out my track (connecting it) to see just how it will look. IT IS MASSIVE (my wife is a physician and we spent or tax refund on boxes of track). i should be done by the end of the week. so far I have at three 1000 foot straight aways, three 200 foot curves and various turnouts, sidings and spurs. Like isaid it is massive. ONce i get it all connected I will stake it out, take it up again (I decided to use availabe track and not cut paste), build the road bed then re-lay it. I plan on running at least five trains at the same time, three fright, and two passanger maybe more. My queston is......What kind of power system(s) would you recommend i use and how much power would i need to run a line of this size?

[TheJoat]

Battery and remote control. No doubt about it! One battery per train.

However, I would start A LOT smaller. That's a lot of track to begin with.

Are you planning on multiple operators, or trying to automate everything?

[Anonymous]

yes its a lot of track, and i want to automate all switches and signals. to be frank, its more track then i anticipated however from climbing up on my roof and looking out over the layout, its going to be awsome...so your recomending battery power and remote control...that will be fine i understand that the batteries are good for about four hours of run time...or can i "hot wire" extra batterins into additiona box cars (two or three) to give adder life. I take it that the ac power would not be sufficent?

[TheJoat]

Well, I'll be the first to tell you I know next to nothing about track power. I did use it inside for both HO and Large Scale, but decided I didn't want to have to worry about electrical connectivity in the outside world.

There are some that advocate DCC outdoors, but that goes way beyond my experience. As I understand it, you can do everything you list with it. You might want to post over at http://www.mylargescale.com/ as there are a number of folks over there that work with it.

Another option for controlling turnouts are the air powered ones, but since you want to have signals as well, you may find that DCC does it for you.

Be forewarned, outdoors is a totally different animal.

[Tom The Brat]

That's a lot of track to keep clean for track power.

Batteries and RC.

[Anonymous]

Ok I am a newbie who hasnt built yet, but have read both forum extensively, so this info is really a combo of that info I have taken to heart. There is a way to put batts in trailing cars, as well as how to buy/what to buy,to find this out search the r/c forum. As far as the reason Bruce mentioned r/c vs track power is cleaning of the rail. If you want track power, how much track cleaning depends on what type of rail, where is the track located (under trees -bird droppings, sap). I know some people get 1 engine which is batt powered and set up a track cleaning train for the rest of the trains to follow to be track powered. You have many options, if you go with track power I'd look into DCC or computer control for best automation -I cant be more specific as I am working on installing r/c myself, but R/C isnt for everyone. One thing you'll need to decide is since you are building such a large layout, is how far away wireless will controll your trains if you dont plan to follow them around.
I would also urge a starter loop (which could be part of the end design) to begin with. Your starter loop very well may be larger than mosts layout, but may save you some headaches in the future, this would also get you running trains sooner so you can learn 1st hand, all the ins and outs of this hobby. This way if you decide you want a different building method you dont have to start all over. Depending on where you live there is ground frost heaves, rain washouts, etc which may alter which building method you want in your final design. I am not however trying to tell you such a large layout is wrong or shouldnt be built, I for one wish I could build such a large layout.

[Anonymous]

For your information i live in Illinois (central Illinois to be exact). I am sure i will have plenty of questions as i start to install the track (I have purchased brass). I like the idea of the battary loco to pu***he cleaner car with...I wonder if there are "relays" you can get to boost the remote control sort like a booster for your wifi system in your home....secondly the land on our property is pretty flat, i used a rather long water level and the biggest difference was aobut 13 inches over the entire area. Also i have three locos....ihave two(2)U25B Diesels, one(1) SD-45 Diesel, and one Bachmann Christmas Engine, its a 4-6-0 i think is the way you describe it. And about 25 40' GT and Western steel box cars.

[Tom The Brat]

Central Illinois? Oh! I was there until just a month ago.

I think for a track this long, that I'd bury some heavy wire under the track, possible just in the ballast and make a connection every 50 ft or so. Essentially, it's jumping around dozens of joints.

[tangerine-jack]

To effectively track power something of that size you are looking at multiple power supplies, 4 or 5 maybe, that's one 10amp power supply per electrical block. Sounds like a real pain in the posterior when you get a dead section or bad connector somewhere, plus all the block wiring for multiple train control. I also highly recommend batt/RC for train power, it will be less frustration and more reliable in the long run. You can then power your signals or other accesories from an isolated 10amp power source then.

[Drummer Creek]

onefeather0917,
First of all, welcome to the hobby! I am also located in central Illinois and have a fairly new layout. I have had track on the ground for 3 years this summer. As you may already be aware, the frost heave in Illinois can really wreak havoc on anything sitting on or built on the ground above the frost line. I would suggest that when laying track you use the floating ballast method. As for power… I am currently converting everything to the Aristo TE with battery power. This winter I attempted to run trains in the snow and was unsuccessful due to the build-up of ice on the rails and using track power. If you have the capital, thinking about running trains in the winter, and are planning to operate several trains at once I would suggest looking into battery power R/C. I currently have only about 200’ of AC brass track and what a pain to keep it clean. I couldn’t imagine trying to keep thousands of feet clean. Whatever you decide…have fun…and enjoy the hobby!

[kimbrit]

Battery power. For that amount of track don't even look at anything else. I am a track power guy so I know the limitations of it, especially cleaning it! If you have all of your power packs in box cars you can swap the car over as the power dies. Also they are easy to work in once the roof is off. Can'twait for the pics.
Kim

[TonyWalsham]

Whether or not you choose battery trail cars or you have everything on board the loco, depends somewhat how you intend to operate.
Trail car installs are great for starting out in battery R/C and are the simplest way to have multiple unit lash ups.
However, if you are interested in switching industries and hostling the steeds, on board installations can come into their own.

That is the beauty of battery R/C. Lots of options. No matter which brand you choose.

You can do lots of things much more simply with battery power, and in many instances you can do them more cheaply than with track power.

[markperr]

When I first read your post, I thought the exact same thing as tangerine jack. That's gonna take a lotta power supplies! for track power, you'd need four or five power supplies (block controlled, four or five throttle controllers, You'd probably have to run AC out to the remote power sites cause if you didn't, you'd lose half your DC power in the wire on it's way to the rails. That means laying a lot of UF wire or conduit to supply power out to these locations. When you want to run trains, you'd have to either throw a central breaker to turn on all the power supplies or you have to walk out to each individual supply and turn it on.

Save yourself the hassles. Go with batteries,

Mark

[pimanjc]

Go Battery!!! Put a snow blade on the front and don't even sweep off the debris. [:D] I converted to battery two years ago.. Before, I spent half of a two hour run session just getting the trains to run [hook up transformers, run extension cords, clean track, and teardown]. Now, I just put the trains on the track, maybe sweep with a broom to get the big stuff off, and RUN TRAINS. [:p] [:D][:p] Before, I would never consider running until dark because of the cleanup/teardown. Now, I've lighted my structures and run as late as I want without having to worry about AC issues and the sprinkler system in the morning. When done, I just pick up the locos and power cars and go in.
JimC.

[Greg Elmassian]

I myself would go DCC, stainless rail, and run AC out so the power from the boosters would not have real long runs. I'm hooked on all the features of DCC, running multiple trains with the simplicity of consisting different locos, all the extra functions, etc, etc. I also hate charging batteries.

But this will be much more expensive than battery power. With such a large amount of track, you will probably want to use rail clamps at all joints, although you can run 8 foot sections of rail.

Battery power would certainly be cheaper, and less maintenance of the track.

One big question in my mind, there would be 2 minuses in battery power, one, if you aren't going to walk around with the trains, your trains are very likely to go beyond the range of the controllers, and second, for such a large layout, you probably want to double up on battery capacity, and you might be very limited in the locos you run, unless you use battery cars.

Regards, Greg

[FJ and G]

In the latest GRR mag, the featured layout is a very large one using brass rails and track power. The author cited that there's work involved in track cleaning but didn't discuss details.

I decided R/C b/c I don't want to clean track every session. Sort of spoils the fun.