O gauge R/C conversion (photos, description)

[dottney]

The Proboat ESC seems to be unavailable right now.  I just picked up a "Chinese twin" off Ebay- http://cgi.ebay.com/50A-ESC-Speed-Controller-Water-resistant-for-RC-boat-S_W0QQitemZ290152386954QQihZ019QQcategoryZ116075QQcmdZViewItem 

It came to $30 US and arrived from Hong Kong in 6 days.  Payment was via Paypal.

I just installed it in my Lehmann Porter with a scratch built tender and am using an old Futaba 2ch Attack radio & receiver (picked up at a swap meet for $10!).  It works very well giving smooth forward and reverse control.  The only downside is a whine emitted from the motor itself.  RCS Tony wrote to me, when I asked him about this noise when I was trying an aircraft ESC, saying that its a result of the ESC handling of voltage control to the motor.  He noted that there's probably no way to suppress the noise.  I have caps on the motor and have tried ferrite rings on the wires.

If you can put up with the noise it seems to be a pretty cheap and reliable way to RC a loco.

Dave 

 

[Jim Duda]

All - Since his train is travelling at +70 Scale MPH @ 7.2 volts, it is likely that anything over 9.6 volts will turn it into a missle...at 12 Volts it'll go supersonic, so the concern about his $40 ESC being able to handle more than 12 Volts is probably moot. Remember, this is a LOW BUDGET experiment...

Interestingly, this particular ESC is recommended for a type of boat that uses two 7.2 volt battery sticks wired in SERIES (14.4 volts). I have not tried it at that voltage yet...

If your application needs more than 12 volts, there are more expensive ESCs available.

[FJ and G]

Thanks, Tony. Fortunately for me, 7.2 is adequate. R/C's are also available in approx 8.4 but I'm getting more than enough power for my needs.

Cheers.

[TonyWalsham]

David,
With respect.

That 12 volt max rating means just that. 12 volts max.
That it can handle 30 amps is irrelevant in this case.
The maximum voltage of an ESC is governed by the tolerance of the components the manufacturer uses. In this case I have no doubt the components used are capable of 12 volts and no more.
For instance. Sierra sound systems have a 6 volt battery that charges off track voltage. This battery can be replaced with a REGULATED 12 volt supply fed into terminals 2 & 4 which normally provided a 5 volt supply for lights etc. 12 volts is fine. 13 volts will release that "magic" smoke that keeps electronics working as long as you don't see it.

High current ESC's that can handle higher voltages cost a lot more. I mean a lot more.

BTW a properly designed ESC should be capable of the same smoth performance in either direction. That they might be mismatched is quite likely due to the way most boat owners operate. Off to flat out and back again.

Nevertheless. Congratulations on your experiments.

[FJ and G]

Well, I promise, this is the last test for today as I've a heap of gardening to do.

Just finished preparing my battery car, a Williams semi-scale NYC P&LE boxcar. Everything fits nicely inside and there's even room for a second battery pack.

I make it less messy, I taped the ESC and receiver to the boxcar ceiling, as there's no need to touch those. I left out the screws so that I can quickly pull off the top if I need to charge the battery. The ESC/battery switch (on/off) is located near the door so I can open the door and flip the switch. I cut a small hole in the base of the car to allow the motor wires to exit.

BTW, if you think that this is too much work for R/C and that you'd like to get into G scale; forget it. Folks in G scale also have to do this with their R/C components as trains in G are not sold R/C ready-to-run. Strange but true.

I set up a new test track indoors and still running off the same battery I started with. I discovered that when the ESC is run in reverse, operations are much, much smoother. Reverse doesn't necessarily mean your train is going backwards either. Just turn the loco around and hook the leads up the other way. It appears that the ESC works BEST when it is drawing more amps from the battery. I attribute this to the probability that R/C boat owners usually run their boats flat out and besides, the boats draw way many more amps than the train. Also, slow operations were much improved when the ESC is used in reverse.

BTW, although the ESC is rated at just 12 v max, it can accommodate 30 amps in forward and 20 in reverse.

[FJ and G]

Hi Tony,

The ESC (electronic speed controller) instructions say it can handle up to 30 amps continuous FWD, and 20 amps continuous in reverse. Those are much much greater currents than those used for O gauge (and probably G as well). In fact, the power leads from the ESC are 12 gauge, while the power wires to the train motors are a mere 20 gauge. Voltage is just one aspect of current. Amps is the other.

I'd suggest contacting the manufacturer, since I'm not the expert. Be sure to tell them how many amps the loco draws. However, they may be unwilling to go against their specs. Someone familiar with electronics who doesn't have a special interest in the matter would be able to better advise.

In any case, I didn't take any chances and my ESC is protected with a 10 amp quick blow fuse.

[TonyWalsham]

David,
The specs for the ESC you have say 4 - 10 cells. ie. 4.8 - 12 volts.
It has been my experience that unless the manufacturer of an ESC specifies a higher voltage, you will be tempting the ESC to accidentally release "magic" smoke if you try higher than the specs.
If you need to operate with higher than 12 volts you will require an ESC designed for R/C trucks or a specialist type designed for trains.

The second channel can indeed be used for other things.
Triggering sound systems is one.

[FJ and G]

Jim,

Here's a rundown on every part and detailed description. Be happy to answer more questions. THis particular ESC can take 12V; however, it is designed for much more amperage than a train typically uses so you can go up a few volts. But I'm not sure about 18 volts. Might run hot. No second battery is used, as you will see from my descriptions that follow... (BTW, if you don't hook up lights and circuitry, I bet you can run your train at less voltage, if just powering the motor(s)

Here's complete parts list and instructions:


1. R/C car battery pack and charger 7.2 V Ni-Cd 2000mAH
From Radio Shack.
$20

Or, you could go to an R/C hobby shop and get a 7.2V NiMh 38000, as it'll last even longer (though I've been on my single battery for hours now.

2. ProBoat Waterproof ESC (Electronic Speed Control with Reverse
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=PRB2314
$40

3. Ranger II HiTec Radio transmitter/receiver (order any channel)
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXARP0**&P=0
$40

Total = $100

Plus, you'll need connectors and you might want a 10Amp fast blow fuse.

Instructions:

1. Prepare some test track

2. Open loco shell and remove rollers

3. If you're not familiar with electronics, cut all wires from the motors except the 2 power wires (the blue and yellow shown in the diagram at the top of this post).

4. Wire your loco so that the yellow wire connects both motors and a tether for the battery car (if you choose to use a battery car). Do the same for the blue wire. That is all the wiring you'll be doing inside the loco, the rest of the wiring will take place in your battery car.

5. After charging your Radio Shack (or other) battery, connect it to the ESC plug (only one plug will work with it).

6. Connect the ESC 3-prong black plug into channel 2 of the Hi-Tech reciever (small red box). The plug fits only one way so don't try to force it the wrong way in! That is the only plug you'll be using in the receiver. No need to uncoil the antenna that is attached to the receiver.

7. The ESC's remaining 2 wires will connect to the yellow and blue wires that go to your motors, which I already mentioned. You can wire the fuse into one of the wires if you so choose. I found that the train still operates if the wires from the ESC to the motors are flipped or flopped.

8. Turn on the main power switch on your handheld transmitter (center slide button). Then turn on the switch on the ESC. (when you are done, always turn off the ESC switch, then the transmitter; the reason for this procedure is so that no extraneous signals are picked up by the locomotive from a remote source)

9. To operate the train, use the toggle switch on the left side. It is spring loaded so if you let go of it, the train goes into neutral. If you push up, the train goes forward (or reverse if you wired the ESC to motors backwards); and if you toggle down, the train goes the other way.

The little button beside it on the right reverses the directions (in case you wired the ESC to the motors backwards).

The little sliding button beside the toggle on the right lets you go in forward or reverse at any speed you choose without holding the toggle switch. In other words, you can set the transmitter down and let the train run without holding it.

10. To run 2 locomotives, connect all 4 yellow to 4 motors and all 4 blue to 4 motors.

Tip: use connectors that don't require too much energy to pull apart.

Tip: use screw caps to connect your wires inside the loco shell. Then you don't have to solder or crimp and you can easily unscrew the cap (caps come in different sizes, indicated by their colors; you can get these in home depot)

Tip: wire a male and female connector at each end so you can tell which wire fits which if double-heading.

Tip: the 4-battery battery pack that comes with the radio unit can be used separately to power your loco lights. It is NOT used in the remote control setup I described. The 2 servos also are NOT used.

Tip: I've just scratched the surface of R/C. Over time, I'll know a lot more. For example, the other channel of the receiver might be used for some other function. Also, I believe the addition of a capacitor in the circuit would improve performance somewhat, but I need to investigate further and ask my electronic friends. I'm hoping some of you with more knowledge than I will do this procedure so that you can give me additional tips.

Tip: If you're using a battery car, this is all the R/C stuff you'll ever need to power all of your trains. If you wi***o use 2 locos operating separately on a track, purchase another radio in a different channel.

[pimanjc]

I see you are using a Hi-Tech Ranger II TX and a BEC for voltage adjustment. What reciever, speed control, and sound triggers are you using? I will be using 18v. battery packs. Do you need to run a second battery for powering the RX and speed controler? Could you give more detail on parts/cost please?
Thanks,
JimC.

[FJ and G]

Hi Brian,

Yes. Low budget it is! But I'm happy.

the garden had to wait...more experiments and success!

Successfully wired my Williams U-boat up to the SD-45 and got both locos (4 motors, 2 each), going simultaneously with just one 7.2 V battery!

It passed the torture course. About the only difference I found was that it ran slightly slower but had all the pulling power needed and seemed to be a bit smoother with 4 motors going at once.

Interestingly, before I hooked both up, I reversed wires on the one loco and it still operated both ways. However, I didn't try any experiments with the dual-powered lashup, instead, continuing the parallel wiring of yellow to yellow, blue to blue. If it were wired backwards, I don't know what would happen and don't know enough about electricity to want to find out.

Eventually, I'll wire 3 locos up.

But for now, it's back to gardening and BB the beagle needs walking.

Eventually, I'll publish more experiments here including the use of infrared and converting DCS to R/C-DCS, but I'm all experimented out for a while and it may be some time before I add to this.

Incidentally, the wiring for both Williams locos is identical to the diagram at the beginning of this post.

[bman36]

Hi Dave,
Well done! I always enjoy seeing what others have come up with. Working with a budget means saving anywhere we can. Keep us updated on your tests. Later eh...Brian.

[FJ and G]

Thanks, Ben, Still plannin to come up Sat April 8. Hopefully your garden will be blooming by then :-)

[Anonymous]

Dave
nice pictures , you are rite it is cold out their , i'm trying to get some things done out their. like cleaning out the pond and some reballasting, and a good track cleaning .
ben

[FJ and G]

Today I'm testing for loading on one 7.2 V battery pak. Several heavy die-cast cars, 3 gondolas filled with steel bars

(one of which derailed due to bad trackwork--track pins missing). Using non-weighted cars, would be about a 16-car train

(now 8-car).

Still testing with Williams SD-45 loco; same battery, ESC hookup as previously described.

THe patio grade is approximately 4%, using mix of 042, 054, 072 curves--one or two pieces is extremely pitted with rust.

RESULTS: 7.2 is more than adequate power.

Operationally, the train seems to run better on the upgrade. On the downgrade, I found a few spots where the loco jerked

somewhat so I lowered my speed some. Over time, it seemed to smooth out a bit but operations going downhill are not as

smooth as uphill.

I'll be conducting more tests, hooking up the single battery pak with another locomotive. Actually, lots more testing but

I have a pickup truck full of mulch and have some garden and fencing work to do today and tomorrow so may have to report

back later.

Jim Duda has assisted greatly with this project and just wanted to thank him again.

BTW, it is below freezing outside so BB the beagle and I are indoors, operating the trains remotely as we look thru the

sliding glass door. I've got some big band music playing so we're chillin.

Some points of interests:

--do not place sections of track under your track like I did, b/c if you're using track power, it'll short your track :-)

--with wind gusts today at perhaps 20-25 mph, I've seen G gauge trains flip over because they present more "sail"

surface. The advantage with O scale outdoors is that it is harder to blow them over!

--note: I forgot to edit a couple of photos. When you get to those, turn your computer monitor 90 degrees to view.

--still haven't charged the original battery; lost track of # hours it's running

Cheers.

[markn]

Thanks Walt-good info...

[Anonymous]

hey fg in that last pic were u buy rocks

[grandpopswalt]

Mark,

I'm certainly not an expert in this field but I'll share what little I do know. 27MHZ and 49MHZ are designated for use by toys and other "general purpose" uses, CB falls into this general catagory. They tend to be very low power devices with a range of only several feet. 72.01 to 72.99MHZ is reserved solely for the control of model aircraft. 75.01 to 75.99 MHZ is reserved for the control of surface models. These R/C systems have a much greater range and therefore have a much greater potential to interfere with or influence distant receivers tuned to that frequency.

The danger is that a transmitter operating in the 72 MHZ range has the potential to cause a model airplane weighing several pounds and traveling at very high speeds to to lose control and injure or even kill someone.

I've known about this for a long time but have just confirmed much of what I've just written after reading several websites dealing with R/C radio frequency allocations.

Walt

[markn]

Walt- quick question and maybe we should take it over to R/C Battery section but I just looked at some of my R/C stuff -the Bachmann Big Hauler set is 27 mhz and I have a Tyco R/C helicopter that is also 27mhz- when, where, how does the frequency discipline come in? I imagine the better airplane stuff has more power/range and my stuff is low power "toy" category and I have thought of using old R/c stuff (of any source air/land/water) for a train.
PS Dave- nice job and article, I too am electronically challenge but your explanation makes me want to give it a try-Thanks Mark

[grandpopswalt]

David,

Thanks for a very well written and interesting post. I have to ask you this one question, is your R/C system designed for aircraft or for land/water use such as cars and boats? If it's for model airplanes ( in the 72 MHZ range) YOU CANNOT use it for your trains or anything else but planes. There are severe penalties for violation of that law.

But everything you describe can be done with a land based R/C system (in the 75 MHZ range).

Walt

[Train 284]

WOW! A very descriptive posting! I see you had a great success!

[FJ and G]

Yesterday, I successfully converted my first locomotive to a new type of "command control" system used by millions of Americans, but almost nonexistant among toy train operators: remote control or R/C, not command control like DCS, TMCC or DCC which depends on rails for power or signal but R/C like that used for model boats, airplanes and racing cars everywhere.

I will show some photos and diagrams, try to explain the process in simple English, and give what I think are the pros and cons of doing this procedure. First, I want to make it clear that I'm an electronic klutz, so if I can do the
conversion, anyone can. Without the help of Austin, Texas resident Jim Duda, none of this would have been possible. We spent time emailing and on the phone, as he walked me through the procedures step by step. Thanks, Jim.

Now for the pros and cons. Keep in mind that I made the conversion less than a day ago so the information I'm providing will be incomplete, as there are many more tests to run and it is likely I will be experimenting with new types of R/C gear in the future, so I plan to use this thread to give updates (which might occasionally be few and far between, as I'm also building my outdoor layout simultaneously).

Here are some factors to consider when deciding if R/C is right for U:

If you have a layout already wired and are happy, this procedure is probably not for you; especially if you already are using some type of command and control system.

R/C conversion isn't free, but neither is it expensive. The 3 main components: 1. onboard battery pak with charger; 2. transmitter/receiver; and 3. electronic speed controller or ESC; cost, all together, about $100. It is possible with just this gear alone, to power all of your trains, including even the Beep and Plymouth Switcher and 0-4-0, if a trailing battery car is used (converted boxcar, gondola, etc).

TIme of installation is also a factor. Once U know how to do the procedure, however, it should take less than an hour per locomotive; perhaps even 15 minutes.

Warranty invalidation might be a showstopper for many. Althought the procedure is safe, some manufacturers might not honor your warrenty.

The R/C conversion doesn't necessarily mean that you can't go back to conventional or your own command control system.

All of the rewiring can be done with wire connectors or wire locks so that you can simply reconnect. Also, the rollers can easily be put back on under the trucks.

The batteries you'll be using can easily be recharged. I ran the train, an SD-45 Williams, on the test track for hours, with no apparent loss of battery juice.

Here are some of the benefits I've found to using R/C:

U can run your trains on 2- and 3-rail track. If you look at one of the photos, you can see that my test oval includes 3-rail and 2-rail track modified from 3-rail. The train doesn't know the difference. And outside (last photo) U can see the train happily cruising along on 2-rail code 148 rails. Now, let me be clear that I didn't go to R/C to get rid of the center rail. There are other reasons which I will explain, to include saving money on rails, since I can use the center rail to extend my outdoor garden railroad. However, for those who'd like to go to 2 rails but don't want to buy all new 2-rail equipment, the R/C conversion will allow U to make the transition seamlessly without spending money for new gear.

Derailments: On my test track, I put a long string of cars and had a "stringlining" type of derailment. Normally, I hear the click of the transformer as it shuts off and perhaps some sparks on the rails. Not with R/C! I could simply put the loco back on the track and continue on without resetting the power pak. If you have a bit of mischievous "Gomez" in you, you could even stage an accident, and have the locomotive continue down the embankment or through the cornfield, as the wheels will keep moving the beast even after it leaves the rails!

Dirty track is no longer a concern since R/C is not dependent on track power. For me, this was the clincher to going R/C, as I'm setting up an outdoor layout. Even G scalers must continually clean their track if they are using track power. I'm just too lazy. I'd rather run trains instead! That said, it is still a good idea in O gauge to ensure there's no debris that could be picked up by the gears and into the motor, as the gears are sitting low and exposed. In other words, more precautions than G-gauge trains definitely must be taken when running outdoors (if that is what you intend to do).

Range: this is unbelievable. Freaky, actually. The supplied antenna wire is still tightly wound in a coil. I never once unwound it. Using my transmitter, I signalled commands to the train from all over the house, in the backyard to the house and down the street a ways. The signal penetrated the house walls at great distances and I successfully was able to make the train do its reverse, forward and neutral movements!! Heck, I can now be upstairs in my bedroom, looking out the window, controlling my trains. Perhaps plowing snow!

And, if the neighbor's model airplane or car violates my air space, I can intercept that too!

Portability. U now can take your trains camping or on a picnic, set up the track anywhere U want and run them without plugging them in. The sense of freedom is really empowering. It was awesome when I first ran the trains without any juice to the rails. It seemed like the real deal!

All of that messy track wiring is now a thing of the past. No transformers. No problems with power losses thru the turnouts, etc etc. Heck, you even can run your trains on the 2-rail coal unloader track supplied for toy trains.

Having given the pros and cons, I have to say I've got a lot to learn yet. I made the train go forward, reverse, and neutral, but as darkness came, I would have liked the lights to come on. I expect that this will be fairly easy to do, as there is another port on the reciever that will allow additional wiring for other functions, such as the light.

There is, btw, tons of room inside the WIlliams SD45 to install ALL of the gear so I don't need a trailing battery car.

I'm currently undecided as to what I want to do with that. Also, if I want to do lashups, I will need to study up on that some. Obviously, it is easy to do with dummy locos. So, I'm just starting out here and there's much left to do.

Now, a bit about installation:

Actually, I'm getting pretty tired from typing so will explain in greater detail sometime this week, using the accompanying photos and diagram. But basically, there's the transmitter, which looks like a boom box in the photo and is used to control model planes. I'm just using the left control, which snaps back to neutral (spring loaded). If I don't want to hold the box, I can set the trim tab and the locomotive will stay at constant speed. THis works in forward as well as reverse.

The receiver contains the antenna and plugin device for the battery pak. The battery pak itself connects to the ESC (electronic speed control) unit, which actually is used for model boats (so I'm combining model boat and plane controls).

The electronic speed control has 2 wires coming out which run to the blue and yellow wires (see diagram) that connect the tops of the 2 motors in the Williams unit. You will probably want to disconnect all other wires. So, the tether between the battery car and locomotive consists of just 2 wires. I put a fast blow 10 amp fuse inline on one of those wire just to be safe.

Well, I'm getting back to running trains! I'll provide in-depth details on the conversion later, if anyone is interested.