basic project engine

[icepuck]

Has anyone here bulit one of these type of locos?
http://www.panyo.com/project/
-dh

[John Busby]

Hi icepuck
This question would be better in the Live Steam forum rather than
general discusion you will get far better and more knowledgable responses
than mine.
My comment on it is based only on the AUSTRALIAN boiler codes so may not be relevent to your area.
I would not build it I have two problems with it the first is the steam lines from the boiler to the Engine they are not metal and don't have propper conections at each end.
You would not want the hoses to let go and start spraying steam and hot water around
some one could get serious burns
The second problem I have with it is the lack of a propper safety valve on the boiler
that would be enough to stop it being built in Aus.
Both problems are or should be easy to fix during construction.
If you decide to build it think about the areas that I find of concern I am convinced that with those two fixed that it would make a very interesting project
regards John

[vsmith]

Ahh... the BAGRS Basic Project Engine!

This is a rather easy way to get into live steam. I saw one of these at a train show. The boiler is small and uses Sterno type fuel, it doesnt get to hot or too high in presuure to worry about a safety valve although a few have had them added. the plus side is that the saftey issues John mentions dont really apply, the downside is that the operating pressure is so low thats its not very powerfull. So dont go expecting it to haul 20 loaded logging disconnects with it. Now that I have an outdoor layout I've thought of building one myself. Sulfer Springs Models sells the kit for the drive train and lubricator.

If you decide to do this get the Heritage Boiler from midwest models...its PREBUILT no soldering required and MUCH easier to install as a result. Some who've gotten the unassembled boiler kits (for R/C model boats) gave up as the construction frustrated them.


The thing is that the drive kit is about $80, the boiler also $80, maybe $20 of Ozark parts and wood stock, your now at $160 just to get started, if you can save your pennies a bit longer you can get a Ruby from Accucraft stating at around $250 for a kit (which is not for beginners) and RTR for around $350. It is something to consider.

Personally I would love to do the BAGRS project engine, its more unique.

[icepuck]

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith

Ahh... the BAGRS Basic Project Engine!

This is a rather easy way to get into live steam. I saw one of these at a train show. The boiler is small and uses Sterno type fuel, it doesnt get to hot or too high in presuure to worry about a safety valve although a few have had them added. the plus side is that the saftey issues John mentions dont really apply, the downside is that the operating pressure is so low thats its not very powerfull. So dont go expecting it to haul 20 loaded logging disconnects with it. Now that I have an outdoor layout I've thought of building one myself. Sulfer Springs Models sells the kit for the drive train and lubricator.

If you decide to do this get the Heritage Boiler from midwest models...its PREBUILT no soldering required and MUCH easier to install as a result. Some who've gotten the unassembled boiler kits (for R/C model boats) gave up as the construction frustrated them.


The thing is that the drive kit is about $80, the boiler also $80, maybe $20 of Ozark parts and wood stock, your now at $160 just to get started, if you can save your pennies a bit longer you can get a Ruby from Accucraft stating at around $250 for a kit (which is not for beginners) and RTR for around $350. It is something to consider.

towerhobbies had the assembled boiler for $99us.
I missed out on a ruby kit on ebay.

Personally I would love to do the BAGRS project engine, its more unique.

[John Busby]

Hi vic
May be it doesn't build much pressure probably similar to a Mammod ie some where around 14PSI remember thats air pressure +14lbs
But a Mammod has a safety valve that should tell people something about good engineering practice.
The neoprene?? steam lines could possably be got away with an enclosed marine application.
But on a land bound exposed application I certanly don't like it.
The risk is that the steam line becomes a defacto safety valve with no guarantee
which way steam and hot water are going to go and the owner may not be able to get too the regulator to turn it off remember the water will be 100c +a little bit and the steam
hotter more than enough for scalding to third degree stage.
In what is percived as the land of the law suit not a good thing,
particularly when it can be sorted with reasonable ease during construction
[2c]
regards John

[kstrong]

John,

To address your concerns:

First, the lack of a safety valve. There is one. It's the oscillating cylinder. There is no throttle on this locomotive, so there's absolutely nothing to forcibly keep the steam in the boiler to where it will build up. When pressure begins to be created, the steam flows through the steam tube to the cylinder block. When enough pressure is built up, it starts seeping out the face between the cylinder and the block. The only thing keeping it in place is a rather weak spring. If this thing produces more than 15psi, I'd be VERY surprised. A spring holding a seal in place is the exact same safety valve mechanism on every live steam locomotive I own. So, yes... It does have one. So long as there's not anything to limit the flow of steam to the cylinder such as a throttle, the cylinder is the safety valve.

The silicon steam lines. Again, there's no real pressure in the system, so they're just NOT going to burst open. I've seen such tubing used successfully on live steam locos with as much as 80# of pressure, to say nothing of how many locos use them for gas lines to the burners. I don't know what that pressure is, but it's likely more than the Midwest boiler is capable of producing on a good day.

On my loco, I've got the silicon steam lines clamped to the brass fittings with simple bread ties. You can't pull 'em off if you wanted to. The only risk of failure is a pressure burst--again with the design of the system as an open system, by definition, that physically cannot happen.

This is a great little kit, with endless possibilities:


More info and movies at:
http://www.mylargescale.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=27875

I say go for it.

Later,

K

[vsmith]

I forgot to mention the little begger had no throttle. Kevin is abolsutely correct, once the head of steam builds up it goes directly to the cylinder and begins to move the engine. And it runs till it uses up almost all the water inside. So its a complete dedicated runner, no stop and starts, unless it hits something [;)][:D]

[Anonymous]

....I have played with Mamod locos, and scalded myself many times.....but finally learned somthing........NEVER TAKE CHANCES WITH BOILING WATER.

[Curmudgeon]

Lord help you if you recommend building a kit, Ferd.

[Anonymous]

I don't know much about live steam but would like to learn a bit.

Rgds Ian

[John Busby]

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith

I forgot to mention the little begger had no throttle. Kevin is abolsutely correct, once the head of steam builds up it goes directly to the cylinder and begins to move the engine. And it runs till it uses up almost all the water inside. So its a complete dedicated runner, no stop and starts, unless it hits something [;)][:D]

Hi Vic
Sounds like it needs the following mods to be usefull
regulator, safety valve suited to the boiler propper steam lines and the designed with motor changed to a Binnie steam motor
That will give it stop start.
Forward and reverse are built into the Binnie motor you just need the lever and rod.
Be carefull heat and run driving[:D] can be fatal if you run up the back side of some ones pride and joy.
As they say in the movies Dona toucha da Ducco
regards John

[John Busby]

Hi Ken
Don't get me wrong I am not knocking beginers steam projects.
What I do see the need for is sound engineering practices
which should be instilled right at the beginning there are unfortunatly
a few too many dodgy brothers out there tinkering in their sheds which
is what got AUS its regulations.
In AUS the steam hobbiest's are regulated too some degree.
As I pointed out our standards may not apply.
My concern particularly with the steam line and safety valve is born from seeing what happens to ossie motors when the inexperienced use the wrong kind of tap water in the boiler.
The result being a cylinder that don't work as it should and lucky 12 year old me at the time the safety valve did.
regards John

[Curmudgeon]

John-
While that may be absolutely true, sound engineering practices take learning and experience.

Slapping something together doesn't.

Ever hear of "Galloping Gertie"?

I am reminded of the scare we had up here several years ago when some yay-who in gummint decided all boilers needed to be inspected and certified.
Including espresso machines.

No funny.
Took a lot of work to get that squashed.

You get rubber hoses filing and some little kid gets burnt, well, I know, it will never happen, right?