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Gas or glow powered g scale trains

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Gas or glow powered g scale trains
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 12:16 PM
Hi there,

Not trying to start any heated debate but I'm wondering why the idea for gas or glow powered trains hasn't been made to be from the manufacturers. As a newbie to g scale trains, I'm getting a little nervous about track power and all of the maintenance issues that I'm hearing from people. Battery power seems okay but seems to be a very immature technology(least from manufacturer perpective in actually making ready to go battery powered trains). Live steam is cool and in the right direction but very costly (least until aristocraft came out with the mike).

Anyway, I think a glow powered train or gas powered train would be cool. Yeah, the noise would be an issue but with the right muffler system, it could be suppressed somewhat. However, long run times and not having to worry about track would be super cool. Also, the train would have a real engine inside it to power it. Can't be that bad.
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Posted by tangerine-jack on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 1:00 PM
All I can say is try it! It might work out OK. Experimentation and a sense of adventure is what the garden RR is all about.

I use track power and don't have any of these "maintenance issues" of which you speak, mine works great!

[#welcome] to the forum!

The Dixie D Short Line "Lux Lucet In Tenebris Nihil Igitur Mors Est Ad Nos 2001"

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 1:24 PM
Some years ago a Japanese company called Wada made a GP-9 "live diesel" using (I believe) an R/C helicopter engine and a starter/generator to run the traction motors.

I've heard that the early ones were rather touchy to run, but that an automatic engine throttle helped.this in later versions.

Biggest drawbacks? IMO They were every bit as expensive as "live steam" but not near as "sexy", and only available from one importer in limited roadnames.
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Posted by Tom The Brat on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 2:43 PM
Glo motors to reduce maintenance? Na...

A few guys have built glo powered equipment. From my years of RC planes, I don't think I really want glo mess all over my train.
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Posted by bman36 on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 3:52 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Torby

Glo motors to reduce maintenance? Na...

A few guys have built glo powered equipment. From my years of RC planes, I don't think I really want glo mess all over my train.
I'll second that. After hours and hours on a model only to have it spattered up with exhaust residue. No thanks. Technology is definately better these days but I like the idea of charge and go. Batteries to me are not immature technology but a VERY viable way to run trains on any length of layout. Take a good look at our battery power section on this forum. A LOT of people do well in this area. I'm hoping to see manufacturers offer their equipment completely battery ready where a battery pack already has a home inside. Charge and go. That's it. Later eh...Brian.
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 4:21 PM
yeah...good points made. forget the glow then. gas still isn't bad. oil isn't spurting out of the exhaust like glow and it starts and stays running. 1/5 rc gas cars are fun with their little 2 cycle gas powered motors.

I do wish more manufacturers adopted the battery idea. One shouldn't have to retofit an expensive engine with a battery system to have it accept that type of power. There is definately a demand for it and manfacturers need to take notice. In the RC helicopter world, there are ready made gas, glow and battery models (a bunch of each to choose from) and I would have to suspect that the fastest growing part of gauge trains(g scale), would have to pu***he manufacturers in that direction.
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 4:25 PM
oops.. add turbine ready birds the above list. Turbine trains?
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Posted by GP-9_Man11786 on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 6:13 PM
I don't think track power is the maintainence nightmare everybody says it is. As long as the line is well wired and you have a good track cleaning car (like a Trackman G-2000), track power can be quite reliable.

As for gas powered locomotives, wit the way gas prices are these days, I just about want to cry when I fill my car up and have no desire to do the same with trains.

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Posted by cabbage on Thursday, December 15, 2005 3:31 AM
Is this what you are looking for?

http://home.iae.nl/users/summer/16mmngm/Who_htms/Barry_Reeves.htm

regards

ralph

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Posted by jlacro1 on Wednesday, April 27, 2011 9:18 PM

I 'm new at this. my former experience is with HO scale from 20 years ago but reliability was a nightmare.  I was flying planes a few years ago and there was a someone offering true diesel power upgrades that increased HP and reduced fuel consumption.  Diesel does have more power per volume than other fuels.  I think it is an interesting idea but cooling is a serious issue.  I'd love to stay involved and get on board.

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Posted by captain perry on Thursday, April 28, 2011 1:08 PM

It has been done and semi commercially at that.  Hydeout Mountain has a "line" diesel locomotives which have onboard gas engines powering generators driving motors and the wheels.  they look pretty cool even to a steam guy!

Here is a video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNv_V59zW5w

here is a link to the web site: http://www.hydeoutmountainlivesteam.com/

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Posted by Andrew Simpson on Thursday, April 28, 2011 4:27 PM

Hello all,

 Check out this forum http://continental-garden-t.motionforum.net/forum scroll down to "live diesel"

Hope this helps

Andrew at the Sandbar & Mudcrab Railway

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Posted by SNOWSHOE on Thursday, April 28, 2011 7:02 PM

I would think a gas powered engine would cost a lot plus  cost a lot to fix.  I would alos think you would have to fool with it to make it run good. 

I use mainly track power and have very little issues with the track and the track powered engines.  I also have battery power that I like but I dont like the idea of having to recharge and not being able to let my trains run for hours at a time. 

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Posted by Mt Beenak on Friday, April 29, 2011 7:34 PM

G'day.  I have run track powered DC outdoors for over 25 years.  Sure it has to be cleaned, but you still have to clean large debris from any track before battery or live steam can be run, so why not just clean a little more to let the juice through.  

I understand why manufacturers build for DC users.  The vast majority will use DC indoor and out. Some only around the Christmas tree.   Some will want to add DCC, and manufacturers have started catering to this.  Some will want to run batteries, but there are so many variations as to battery sizes and remote systems that manufacturers could never satisfy everyone.  

One of the beauties of this hobby is self expression and altering someone else's equipment to suit your layout and running style is part of it.  I am just glad that there are manufacturers making stuff for me to butcher.

Mick

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Posted by cabbage on Monday, May 2, 2011 1:49 AM

My first live diesel model is due to "first fire" on Saturday afternoon. The amount of  calculation that has been done is of an order of magnitude higher than that of one for an electric loco. Not only do you have to work out how to fuel, cool, and control it -you also have to "get at it" with a starter motor. Then you have to work out how you are going to couple the engine to the drive wheels and make it go forwards and backwards. This is fairly easy in a diesel electric as after the alternator and rectifier chain you come back to conventional ESCs and RC technique. But, what happens when you build a diesel mechanical? you need some form of clutch (or equivalent) and a method of changing gear fwd ->rev. You may ebven need more than one gear...

regards

ralph

 

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Posted by JamesP on Monday, May 2, 2011 10:54 AM

Ralph,

May I request that you post pictures and video?  I want to see the locomotive in action!

 - James

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Posted by cabbage on Tuesday, May 3, 2011 1:09 AM

James -I will try and get a short video of it running "for posterity" on Saturday. However this is simply a learning session. I have to figure out how to fire it reliably and that the coolant system, (pumps and radiator), all work within parameters. 

The next step after having leaned how to start (and stop!) the engine is to test it with the torque convertor and see if that works, and then we put it on some track and see if we can get it to go forwards and backwards!!

regards

ralph

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Posted by JamesP on Tuesday, May 10, 2011 8:51 PM

Ralph, I'll try not to pester you (too much), but I'm dying to know - how did the test run go?  I always find the first testing of a locomotive - steam or diesel - a wonderful balance of excitement and stress.  My first test fire on my last steamer found me beside the boiler, safety valve roaring and two balky injectors!  Diesels can exceed that level of fun if the prime mover decides to run away for some reason.  However, things usually work just fine with maybe one or two quirks.

Enquiring minds want to know! Smile, Wink & Grin

 - James

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Posted by cabbage on Friday, May 13, 2011 8:02 AM

James,

Yes I did get it to fire although the starter system is going to have to be modified into something a little less "lethal"... Once the engine fires the starter is withdrawn -but the yellow rubber cup that connects the front of the engine to the starter somehow flies off in any direction -for some reason normally the most painful one!!! The engine now has 45 minutes of run time to it and is nearly "run in" -I have yet to take it to full throttle. 

The fan powering the coolant system quit after 6 minutes into the second run and I had to abandon it until I could get a new fan -it is supposed to be rated at 2000 hours -needless to say the fan went back to the supplier with a "letter".

One thing that did surprise me was the amount of nuts and bolts that came undone -even after having tightened them between "runs". The exhaust bolts came undone about 30 seconds into the 2nd run and waste oil spewed EVERYWHERE -this has however ensured that all gears etc (and anything locally) are now well oiled...

I am a little busy with domestic things and the next series of tests are scheduled for the next free weekend (May 21st). The cascade power supply for the starter motor worked to perfection -but the main source of worry for me now is the amount of current that the pumps are going to "draw" whilst the loco is in motion. Each of the two pumps draws 2.5 Amperes each  and the design is a ten minute duration this gives me a peak draw of 7 Amperes if I wind up all the coolant fans -and I am rapidly running out of space in the loco to fit a battery pack capable of such a sustained draw. 

On the plus side the glycol never reached a temperature higher than 30C and the air temperature was not much higher than 24C -so the radiator system does work. (Pity about the fan).

regards

ralph

The Home of Articulated Ugliness

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Posted by JamesP on Friday, May 13, 2011 8:41 PM

Very nice, Ralph!  Thanks for the update.  The part about things coming loose brought a grin to my face... as part of my mis-spent youth, I decided to power one of my 1/16th scale Ertl tractors with a Cox .049 airplane engine.  I cobbled together a geartrain from anything I could find to reduce the ultrahigh RPM's of a small bore engine to a reasonable speed for a model tractor.  I ran it a number of times, but the runs always ended prematurely with something either coming loose from vibration or flying apart from stress, the tractor stopping dead in its tracks while the engine rev'd seemingly to infinity!  I like to think that I've learned a lot more about mechanical engineering in the past 25 years, but who knows since nowdays my projects are powered by sedate Briggs & Strattons (or coal!), not high spirited glow engines. 

Anyway, it sounds like you had a successful test run.  Yes, a few things to sort out, but that is always the case with an original creation... relatively minor issues that you will address in due time!  Again, it is a very impressive piece of engineering - please keep us up to date with your progress.

 - James

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