Problems with Titebond III waterproof wood glue

[FJ and G]

Yesterday, I noticed that chunks of wood are falling off my outside warehouse that I put outside about 3 weeks ago.

I ensured that the glue dried for over 24 hours before bringing it out. The glue is advertised as "waterproof" but the claim doesn't seem to be holding true.

The only thing I can think of is that some water somehow got between the 2 pieces of wood and froze and expanded the wood off?

I've got hundreds of these pieces of wood ribs attached and they appear to be loosening.

Fortunately, I just purchased a brad nailer (air powered from Harbor Freight $20) so I will probably trudge out in the cold and nail them back.

These chunks of wood (unlike a trestle) are not load bearing so I thought the wood glue would be adequate.

I've very disappointed.

[SandyR]

David, I haven't tried Titebond lll, but I do have a couple of thoughts...Was the wood finished (as in stained or painted) before you glued it? I've had problems with paint failure (the glue stuck to the paint, but then the paint separated from the wood surface), and failure of glue to stick to Minwax stains. Second thought: did your container of Titebond lll freeze at any time before you used it? I learned the hard way (with Elmer's Glue-all) that once this kind of glue has frozen and thawed, it is useless.
I'd suggest contacting the manufacturer for help; at the very least, they ought to be able to trouble-shoot what happened.
SandyR

[FJ and G]

Hi Sandy,

The glue was never frozen (at least after it was sold to me).

I had previously stained the cedar planks with THompson water sealer (honey color).

I spent many hours gluing the individual planks:

Here's before they fell:

[Karl Reichenbach]

Dave,

The Thompson Water sealer is the problem. I seals the surface leaveing no wood surface for the glue to adhere to. All glue joints should be done before the application of the water sealer.

Better get busy with the nailer because they all are going to fall off.

Been there done that.

Karl

[whiterab]

I have to agree with Karl. I've never had a failure with Titebond II and III. I seal the structure after it is built. A "wood to wood" bond with Titebond III will be stronger than the wood but it has to be absorbed by both pieces of wood.

While the glue is advertised as "waterproof" the sealer is as much to protect the glue joint from water penetration as much as it is to protect the wood from warpage. While I pin most of my glue joints, some are not pinned and they have still held up.

[Capt Bob Johnson]

Look at the ingredients in the water seal, a lot of animal fats the last time I looked. Fats and glue don't go together!

[FJ and G]

maybe I should have used silicone adhesive instead? Or not stained the wood until it was glued on?

man, it's dark and cold outside when I get home from work. It will be a real bear lugging the air tank outside and reving up the air-supplied brad nailer. What a drag!

[ttrigg]

Dave:

There is one and only one correct sequence.

Step 1. Glue
Step 2. (optional) nail
Step 3. top coat (watersealer, paint stain, etc.)

NOTICE the waterproofing is LAST!

[Anonymous]

Dave, Keep in mind Titebond II is only water resistant. Titebond III is like the gorilla glue product, great but as stated above it will not bond with thompson's water seal, which repels moisture including your glue. Better to assemble and then seal for better results and remember for quicker drying time with TB III and Gorilla glue dampley wet both to be joind with water and then glue, it accelerates the dry time[;)]

[FJ and G]

HERE'S AN UPDATE:

Well, I thought that the fix might be simple so I got my nail brad air gun and fired 5/8 inch 18-gauge brads into the siding.

However, the brads don't have heads on them and the siding came right off.

So, in very cold weather, I went outside with Alex Plus DAP Windows, Doors, Trim & Siding waterproof acrylic latex adhesive with silicon and started applying that. However, my hands got cold and my back hurt from bending over and besides, there was moisture under the siding that didn't mix well with the caulk so I ended up dismantling the entire warehouse and bringing it indoors, where I'll need to now clean and dry the entire structure and then apply the caulking.

The Titebond III label didn't adequately warn me about applying over stain. The label ONLY says "surface must be clean and dry".

Anyway, any advice appreciated!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't want to repeat this.

I wish I had found this warning in an article (which I didn't) before going thru this.

[FJ and G]

Since last posting this topic, my nextdoor neighbor came over and instead of the air gun nailer, we are using a small electric stapler that also takes nails. Those seem to be doing the trick. I'm going to run some masking tape along the entire structure, as the vibrations from the nailer/stapler is causing more to fall off and hard to locate where they go.

I was very mad as you can tell from my initial post but I've taken some meds and calmed down :-) and will chalk it up to another hard learning lessen experience.

BTW, I'm\ glad I didn't continue using the silicon product as my neighbor said that the Waterseal would likely repel the caulking as well.
Cheers.

[tangerine-jack]

Dave, try an oily rag and a match. It worked for me.

[grandpopswalt]

I had a similar experience. I sealed a cedar swing set with thompson's sealer and a month later top coated it with spar varnish. The varnish started peeling off in about three months leaving a terrible looking mess. Moral of our stories seems to be: if you want to seal an outdoor structure, either use a weather sealer (like Thompson's) OR paint or varnish it, but never do both.

Walt

[FJ and G]

Walt,

Misery loves company. The T W sealer worked too well, so I'll probably use that to stain my deck, which has gone for 2 years w/out anything since I got it put up. Probably need to pressure wash it first tho.

I think an article about this topic in GRR mag might prevent more mistakes like mine.

It's nice to learn from our mistakes but much nicer not to make them in 1st place

[Capt Bob Johnson]

Yes pressure wash before applying any sealer to deck, however, I'm not really sold on these sealers. If deck is made of proper material it shouldn't be needed. I had some walkway made of PT decking that I used sealer on and had to redo the sealer twice a year. After about 4 years I'd had it and haven't touched it since. 6 years with no sealers and it looks ok and wood holding up just fine.

If your deck is made out of trex or one of the artificial plastic or plasticised wood fibers, I'd check manufacturer before trying to seal it!