New LGB club

[grandpopswalt]

TOC,

Maybe you're right but here on my planet we value ideas and principles above things.
I'm not endorsing one party or the other but I can see getting passionate about a political party's agenda if it reflects your own views and values. However here on planet X we just cannot get all moist over a car or a gun.

Walt

[Curmudgeon]

A political Party is worth someone's LOYALTY?

Walt, what planet do you live on again?

I have brand loyalty to Ford, as all I personally drive are Flatheads.
And they don't let me down.
Sam Colt, same thing, in an ACP.

Sometimes one's feelings toward a product haven't got as much to do with it as one's feelings towards the Head of the Company or marketing practices, good or bad.

[grandpopswalt]

I guess I just don’t get it. I’ve never been able to understand the concept of “brand loyalty”. Brand preference, yes, but loyalty? It’s not limited to toy trains either. Consider the PC vs. Mac wars or Windows vs. UNIX or Chevy vs. Ford or Marines vs. Navy ……………… you can fill in the blanks. Are we so desperate to belong to some group, any group, that so many of us are drawn into this cult mentality? And along with this absurd infatuation comes a hatred of the opposing product or group. How in the hell can someone HATE an inanimate object like a car or operating system?

My advice to these folks is, get a life. Look around and find something that’s worthy of your loyalty like a religion or political party. And even there be careful of the zealots who will try to convince you that theirs is the ONLY way, because it’s not. The answer to most differing viewpoints is somewhere in the middle.

But be wary of my advice as well because it’s coming from someone who uses both PC’s and Mac’s, owns three different brands of cars, is agnostic, is a registered independent voter, and listens to both Rush and Air America (Rush is a conservative talk show host and Air America is a liberal radio station).

Walt

[Anonymous]

Mine came from [e-mail]

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Dave Snow

HJ,

Yup, I received the same email yesterday

Hey Dave, [;)][;)]

But not from my friend, did you?[:I][:I]

He passed it on to me since he figured that I wanted to sign-up right way (if not sooner) [:D][:D].
I also received the same stuff from LGB in Nürnberg via snail mail, together with what is new and exciting and available apart from the previous announcements.
Well, there was nothing there fitting my requirements, but I appreciate getting the stuff. Perhaps there will be some more RhB stuff soon, that fits my era and line.

[Anonymous]

HJ,

Yup, I received the same email yesterday

[RhB_HJ]

This just off the wire from a friend of mine:

QUOTE: Dear LGB Friend,

Thanks for your interest in our new, worldwide LGB Club and our LGB
Festival
to
be held in July 2006!

Now, you can find more information about both at www.lgb.com. Just
click on the "LGB Club" button, and you'll find downloadable flyers with information about the LGB Club and LGB Festival. (To read the flyers, you'll need Adobe Acrobat Reader 5.0 or later, which is available free at www.adobe.com.)

We've also attached an LGB Club registration form for you. Just complete the
form and send it to the appropriate address below:

in North America
LGB Club
c/o LGB of America
6444 Nancy Ridge Drive
San Diego, CA 92121

in Europe, Africa, Asia, Australia and South America
LGB Club
Ernst Paul Lehmann Patentwerk
Saganer Strasse 1-5
D-90475 Nürnberg
GERMANY

The new club officially begins operation in January 2006. Memberships
are offered on a calendar-year basis, and new memberships take effect at
the beginning of the next full quarter (with a pro-rated fee). So we
encourage you to send in your registration form now to get the full benefits of a
2006 membership! If you have questions, please feel free to contact us.

We look forward to seeing you as a member of the LGB Club and at our
LGB Festival!

Sincerely,


Heiner Groh
Ernst Paul Lehmann Patentwerk
LGB Club Representative (Europe, Africa, Asia, Australia, South
America)
[e-mail]
[phone]


Jack Lynch
LGB of America
LGB Club Representative (North America)
[e-mail]
[phone]

As you can see Jack Lynch (on this and other boards kown as "Bucksco") is also the LGB Club Representative for North America; Jack's full time job is Marketing Manager at LGBoA.
Which may shed a bit more light on some of the recent exchanges on subjects concerning LGBoA and/or LGB and/or the "Depesche" etc. etc.

[tangerine-jack]

There is nothing wrong with LGB, except the price. There is also nothing wrong with Aristo-craft, of which I have a great deal and to date have nothing but good things to say about it and had zero problems. I also have B'mann locos and cars, also nothing bad to say, zero problems. If I were to afford LGB, I'm sure I would have nothing bad to say and zero problems, only an empty bank account to show for it.

Bravo, Vic, you said it better than I could, it's the tenor of the users, not the product itself. I'll save my $56.00 and buy some nice Aritso-craft or B'mann cars. The LGB club is certainly one of those niche markets, you either support it or you don't. Personaly I won't support it because it does nothing for me, but I won't bad mouth anybody who does, in fact, I say go for it, join up and enjoy your product!


[oX)]

[Curmudgeon]

OhGawd, now you've done it.
Wait until the High Priest wakes up in Oz and starts in on ya.
We'd best get to the shelters.

TOC

[Capt Bob Johnson]

I think Vic's got it! In my experiance 99% LGBers are a religious cult! They don't want to hear, see, or have anything to do with it if it isn't LGB! You don't run LGB, You might just as well be floating in the terlet (Archie Bunker)!

I think that the vaunted reliability is debateable, however, for my taste, even thier renderings of American prototypes have a distinctly European flavor; and that in itself creates a distaste for the product in my eye! That is a purely personal observation and opinion; one that is open to change when I percieve change in the way the product strikes me!

Now, getting back to the subject matter; even if I were enamoured of LGB, at those $$$ for what is offered I would pass!

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jfmccolgan


I simply don't understand those who don't like LGB or don't want to join the club (for whatever reason) taking pleasure out of telling the world about what they perceive to be wrong with LGB (or Aristo or Bachmann or whatever).

Jerry

I for one LOVE LGBs stuff , I just can't afford alot of it. But that doesnt mean I'm kicking it. I would like to point out that while my post was sarcastic about the benifits, it was taken from a realistic viewpoint of cost-vs-benifits for me. Considering that 60% of my stuff is non-LGB but Bachmann, HLW, or MDC, and that the LGB products that I do have is limited to Porters, Cowtrains, and Stainzs, would the cost of $56 for an organization thats likely be much more oriented towards the Swiss and German RR prototypes that ARE the majority of LGB's products be a worthy investment for me? I came to the conclusion that NO it wouldnt be. [V]

Personally I have nothing againt LGB. I wish I could buy more of the big ticket items but thats just not going to happen short of 6 lucky numbers on a lotto ticket. [:o)]

Where I have had problems is with some users and sellers of LGB and their attitude of "its LGB or Nothing, everything else is [censored]", the Red Box Brigade, Not all users or sellers are this way but I have encountered enough to be wary at dealers and to watch my P's and Q's at LGB only booths at shows. Early on in my Newbie days I had been given a hard time for liking Bachmann, so far as getting really PO'd at a guy who gave me a hard time for even thinking of buying a Bachmann Porter (which I did and never had a problem with) and just couldnt understand WHY I didn't want an LGB Mogul instead (something about the $75 Porter -vs- the $750 Mogul just didnt register in his head). [:0]

So my comments were not about LGB as an organizing element of this new club, it was a factoring in of what past experiences with exclusive users has been like and how that would translate into a club and forum atmosphere. I was not a pretty picture in my minds eye. I could foresee it becoming just like the Aristo forum where ANY mention however small to ANY non-product would be deleted or shunned and the thought of that just didnt appeal to me, at least not at having to pay $56 bucks.[;)]

Maybe I'm wrong, time will tell. Once its up and if I can access the forum and read the tenor of the postings maybe I'll change my opinion and join, but they are going to have to convince me of its worth. I came from HO, where NOBODY runs a single manufacturer exclusivley. Its many makers , many products all mixed together, thats why I find the ferocity of some LGB users so puzzling. I guess its a carryover from the pre Delton/Kalamazoo days when LGB was the only pond in large scale to swim in, but I came into it when there already were several manufacturers all with good products to offer. I like the diversity of offerings in large scale today and look forward to more in the future. I guess I'm too multi-cultural to join just one religion[8D]

[Curmudgeon]

Plus, I hate flies, and mosquitoes, so we do everything to PREVENT attracting such!

Cigars help when you're outta vinegar....

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Curmudgeon

Follow?
Thread?
Oh.

Hey Dave,

Reading the different threads on the "North Pole adventure", I was waiting for someone to point out to you that one catches more flies with honey than with vinegar. [;)][;)]
Which is undoubtedly true, [:)][:)] what some of those who harp about the "negativity" conveniently forget is that apparently even more flies are caught / attracted by b*u*l*l*s*h*i*t.
But hey: "C'est la vie".[;)][:)][:D][:D]

[Curmudgeon]

Follow?
Thread?
Oh.

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by iandor

Come of HJ I loved the scenery but what about explaining all the initials.

You know when I use words that I think all don't understand (i put a little explanation in brackets afterward) I think not to do so is not in the spirit of good communication. Just because something is familiar to you, it doesn't mean that others from the other side of the world have any idea what you are talking about.

Rgds Ian

Hey Ian,

If you followed this thread you must have come across the explanation to all those initials at least three times.

[Curmudgeon]

Like Big Train Operators Club, and LGB Model Railroading Club, or what?

Good reading for those so inclined:

http://www.bigtrainoperator.com/v-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?t=1154

[Anonymous]

Come of HJ I loved the scenery but what about explaining all the initials.

You know when I use words that I think all don't understand (i put a little explanation in brackets afterward) I think not to do so is not in the spirit of good communication. Just because something is familiar to you, it doesn't mean that others from the other side of the world have any idea what you are talking about.

Rgds Ian

[RhB_HJ]

Hey guys, it isn't that difficult, really!

The LGB Club - complete with "Members Only" forum - will be an advantage; fewer threads on other fora to explain the difference between gauge and scale, that not all DCC systems are created equal and that Code332 along with 600mm minimum radius is not mandatory in the garden.

As mentioned once or twice: as the "boomer wave" rolls on there will be plenty of model railroaders joining the Large Scale fraternity. If they will enjoy a relative regression to the "good old days" of the 60s and 70s - WOW look at the size of the rail and the flanges! Hey, this I call "sturdy detail", it is all molded right to the body! - remains to be seen, but I doubt it very much if the people I meet in shops and at shows are any indication.
It's hard to sell less proto-fidelity in Large Scale when the sheer size makes things that much easier. As always strictly my opinion.

BTW for those who suspect "sour grapes" in posts/threads; you want "sour grapes" go check out LGB's reaction at the 2005 Nürnberg Toy Fair when they discovered BRAWA's surprise. [;)][;)][;)]

[Anonymous]

Okay, Dave, you have addressed my concerns and you can count on getting another member. I'll be happy to join the BTOC as well as the new LGB club. I'm always interested in gaining information from as many diverse sources as possible, so it sure can't hurt to join both groups.

I'm still having a hard time understanding the animosity some seem to feel toward LGB, at least as expressed on this and some other forums (as don the "Yes, Virginia, there is LGB at the North Pole" thread here, to cite just one example). LGB spurred the hobby of garden railroading in the U.S., has always offered high-quality products, and provides, along with Marklin, what I believe to be the best service of anyone in the Large Scale segment of the hobby. I'm just not sure what they might have done to earn the kind of treatment I see displayed by some participants here and elsewhere (obviously few in number, but quite vocal). I suppose that's why I use the term "sour grapes"--I can't logically attribute it to anything other than a "my brand is better" kind of mentality. I see enough of the "brand wars" kind of thing in O gauge, and really hate to see that small-minded perspective invade what has traditionally been the most friendly and accepting segment of model railroading.

[Anonymous]

Jerry,

I will look forward to seeing your name on my monthly new member list that I receive from our membership chairman.[;)] I've always looked at a half a glass of water and say that it was half full, rather then half empty[:)] Thank you for the kudo's[:I]

[RhB_HJ]

Hi there Jerry,

That is precisely the reason there are plenty of clubs, plenty of fora and more manufacturers as the years go by.

For my taste I don't need to belong to the LGB Club because they don't offer enough for my money. Someone mentioned the tours being an instant pay back; well only if you join the tours.
The only tour I've been on in recent memory is the "100 years - 100 hours RhB Tour" in 1989. Of course that was organized by the RhB, revolved around the RhB and most everyone on the tour was highly interested in the RhB.

Other than that I organize my own tour, stop where I find things of interest , get to talk with people who you wouldn't get to talk to on a tour etc. etc. etc.

But basically my point is: there is a lot more to Large Scale than LGB and pointing out that fact helps any and all of the newcomers. Especially those who step up from the smaller scales and really haven't "played" with trains in many years, like all those people who consider themselves model railroaders.
They simply wouldn't consider squeezing a GG-1 or a Mikado through the equivalent of a HO 7.5" radius.

[Anonymous]

At first I was going to pass on joining the LGB Club as I did not see enough benefits to justify the price to me.

After thinking about it I decided to join because among other things it is the membership that truly determines the value of a club and of a forum.

I run a lot of trains made by a lot of different manufacturers and I joined several forums because it is nice to exchange ideas with folks who have used various products interchangeably.

I appreciate the comments by Dave Snow:

"I can state here with confidence that those who are running for the various positions on the new Board, and I have the list of candidates which will be published in our next issue of the Big Train Operator magazine, have no hard feelings against LGB or their representatives. I hope and welcome the participation by LGB and/or LGBoA to promote their products, submit articles on such things as their MTS system, for publication.

The negative opinions of the few, and trust me when I say it's the few, are not the opinions of the officials of the Big Train Operator Club, Inc. My goal, as an Officer of the BTOC, is to promote and propel our club forward and be a partner with all the other largescale websites, clubs and organizations, to promote the largescale hobby. "

Because of Dave I might be inclined to join BTOC. Previous comments by BTOC members that were derogatory about LGB were a strong deterrent to my wanting to join as it is no fun belonging to forums or clubs that seem to thrive on picking on someone or some company.

Negative comments about LGB here and on other forums are a primary reason why I am joining the LGB Club and will participate in the LGB Forum (as well as others).

I simply don't understand those who don't like LGB or don't want to join the club (for whatever reason) taking pleasure out of telling the world about what they perceive to be wrong with LGB (or Aristo or Bachmann or whatever).

Sour grapes are simply unappealing. I prefer things that make me feel good.

I can go downstairs anytime and run trains that have been sitting on sidings unused for a year or more, flip a switch and everything runs fine the first time. That makes me feel good. That is why I buy LGB. Other stuff is inconsequential to me.

With folks like Dave Snow and Jack Lynch and their positive attitudes I personally think the futures of BTOC and LGB are bright indeed.

I learned long ago that if you want to feel good, hang around with folks that make you feel good about what you are doing and avoid folks who bad mouth what you are doing.

Jerry

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by iandor

I'm sorry HJ but I do not understand all the initials you have used what do they all meann and how do they apply to me, here in Paradise.

Rgds Ian

See we have summer for 6 months of theyear and it has got tobe good to get us away from the beach, drinking booze, getting a suntan , watching young girls etc.

Welllllll greetings from the "Paradise with four seasons", we have a very nice summer climate here, no humidity and temps in the low to mid thirties. A very nice Fall with colours.
A S-U-P-E-R Winter i.e. we cross-country ski on the most consistent snow in Canada from November (sometimes even October) to mid April, don't have much snow to shovel at the town level.
And in the Spring it's really hard to decide if you keep skiing til the close or if you start riding the bike, wack away at golf or paddle the kajak/canoe etc. etc.

Now, I hope that we'll always get enough snow in the valley, I want to build a RhB steam rotary and actually use it. The RhB without decent snow-fighting equipment is not much of a Mountain Railway.

Oooooooh almost forgot to tell you, going out the back garden gate it is a short five minutes downhill hike to a super beach.



The Beach with crystal clear water





Behind the water-skier on the shore is the railbed used by the KPR and OVR

[Anonymous]

I am dropping BTOC and not joining the new LGB club. I am also dropping a large scale club and another train mag. The cost and the clutter are too much. I have encough trains and stuff to keep me busy for another lifetime.

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry HJ but I do not understand all the initials you have used what do they all meann and how do they apply to me, here in Paradise.

Rgds Ian

See we have summer for 6 months of theyear and it has got tobe good to get us away from the beach, drinking booze, getting a suntan , watching young girls etc.

[RhB_HJ]

Hmmmmmmmm actually more to do with evaluating what is offered for the US$56

And that those who are running for the BTOC BoD have no hard feelings is completely understandable. It also took the old board - many of the candidates are from that category - a very long time to wise up to what LGB was doing to the LGBMRRC.
In some cases it will take considerably more than the proverbial 2x4 or baseball bat to the head, for people to overcome years of indoctrination.
Of course that's just my opinion.

But I'm glad that the BTOC takes a different tack - or at least that's what was professed since Feb 5th 2005 - after all there is much more to large scale modeling than LGB. Just like there always was much more to HO modeling than Athearn.[;)][:)][;)]

[Bucksco]

Rene,
Thank you for posting the info about the new LGB consumer benefits club. I'm sure there are many LGB enthusiasts out there who will be interested.

Jack

[Anonymous]

Well here I am living in paradise and i hardly understand anything that has been said about this new LGB club.

I belong to our club here in Australia which has tangible benfits to me,

ie
!/ a good club magazine that I canunderstand and relate too. It covers items I am interested in and about pople who are actually doing things (not sitting around talking about it or worse talking about not doing things)

2/ Good quality cheap club rail.

3/ A venue to publicise my own interests and experience, that do have some meaning.

Basically without talking about silly discounts that I can get anyway and pointless conventions.


Whats in it for me?

Rgds ian

[Anonymous]

Allan,

I have been a member of the LGB Model Railroad Club, Inc. since 1988 and was elected to the Board of Directors of the LGBMRRC in 2000. I have continued in my position as Eastern VP for the new Big Train Operator Club, Inc. and have decided to run again for that position in the BTOC.

I can state here with confidence that those who are running for the various positions on the new Board, and I have the list of candidates which will be published in our next issue of the Big Train Operator magazine, have no hard feelings against LGB or their representatives. I hope and welcome the participation by LGB and/or LGBoA to promote their products, submit articles on such things as their MTS system, for publication.

The negative opinions of the few, and trust me when I say it's the few, are not the opinions of the officials of the Big Train Operator Club, Inc. My goal, as an Officer of the BTOC, is to promote and propel our club forward and be a partner with all the other largescale websites, clubs and organizations, to promote the largescale hobby.

The motto of the Big Train Operator Club, Inc. is simple.....'Havin' Fun, Runnin' Trains!'