Small scale outdoors

[Anonymous]

Anyone using the smaller scales (O or HO) outdoors. I seem to remember that O was popular size in English garden railroading. Any web sites anyone knows of with scale railroading in the garden would be great. I am in Fl so heat, sun and rain (ok and maybe the occasional hurricane [:(] ) are our only issues--severe expansion and contration doesn't seem to be a big problem without great temp. extreems.

[IRONROOSTER]

I remember reading many years ago about someone who had built an HO layout outside. I think it was in California and as I remember he built it next to a fence in the back yard or maybe it was built as a shelf on the fence. I think it ran from inside the garage and down the fence line. All of this predated the Internet.
Enjoy
Paul

[cacole]

I know of several people in California who run what is known as Proto 48 (O scale) trains outdoors, and some even use DCC.

HO scale track, locomotives, and rolling stock would not survive in the Arizona sun, even though I am at an altitude of nearly 6,000 feet and it doesn't get anywhere near as hot as Phoenix or Yuma.

None of the HO equipment has UV inhibitors in it for outdoor use. Several people have mentioned in the past that Peco makes HO scale track for outdoor use, so you might check into that.

I usually suggest that you take a cheap boxcar and piece of HO scale track and put them outside for a month or so in the sun and see what they look like afterwards.

People in the Phoenix area have reported plastic G-scale wheels melting on the hot rail, so I can just imagine what a cheap boxcar would look like after one month in that heat. It probably wouldn't even be recognizable.

[Anonymous]

Thanks,

Never thought about the UV thing. Trains could be kept indoors when not running, but the track might be a problem--Peco hu? Is it there regular line or a special line of track--On30 might be a great choice in that case. Anyone have an idea how much maint. nickle silver rail is outside (some of the G scale track is NS I believe)--I was thinking DCC.

[John Busby]

Hi drgator
I would forget fine scale outdoors.
too many fiddely bits that break.
Peco is a respected English manufacturer
of track wagon kits in a variety of scales.
I personaly think anything smaller than "O" scale
outdoors..
Not a good idea the first slug will make a hell
of a mess of that wrecked train.
Atlas claim their "O" scale track is UV stable if that helps
but make sure it has proper rail not tin plate track.
regards John

[Anonymous]

Hummmm....I wonder if any of the major companies that make large scale might try some small scales built to stand the elements.

Maybe some smallers outfit could do well.

I say this because every so many months a newer person asks about small scale outdoor stuff.

Could be a potential new market...any one want to give it a try?

Capt Carrales

[Capt Bob Johnson]

Flying Capt.
Take a pile of big bucks to do what you suggest! Can't say I'd risk it if I had it cause I could probably invest it and get a better return on my money for a h*** of a lot less work!

the floating capt.

[Puckdropper]

I'm seriously considering this. How seriously? When i find the track I soldered together I'm going to set it up outside and see what happens. Perhaps even see if MR wants an article...

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Capt Bob Johnson

Flying Capt.
Take a pile of big bucks to do what you suggest! Can't say I'd risk it if I had it cause I could probably invest it and get a better return on my money for a h*** of a lot less work!

the floating capt.

Floating Capt,

Well...the good think about forums is that one can PIPE DREAM with imaginary money. I wish I had the piles of ca***o do that.

I'm sure someone coudl do it though. Maybe Bachmann or LGB...make HO OUTDOOR track (what am I talking about Bachmann doesn't even make LARGE SCALE OUT DOOR TRACK[:p]).

I think the making of structures could be done with ceramics...small thinks like HO that could go into a kiln after being painted. Cermanic HO houses could last forever in theory.

Regualar HO products currently in production could be adapted with metal wheels to run in the sun. Plastics would have to change and HO locos would have to go inside.

That is how I would do it...

TAKE NOTES those of you from the BIG BOYS!!! Send me free products in lieu of royalties...

Capt Carrales

[Kiwi Down Under]

Is it just me or has everyone missed the obvious !. O guage would be alright, but HO, or OO, it would derail with every little leaf. At least with G scale it can pu***he odd obstacle off the track but HO,OO, you would spend all day putting it back on the track.


Tony

[powlee]

[soapbox]What I say is `you won`t know until you try.

If you have a cupboard full of 00/H0 and you don`t want to buy all new G Scale, have a go. What can you lose.
I ran 00 in the garden for 15 years, a friend of mine 25 years. I know the weather in England is not as hot as parts of the US. Peco nickel silver track is ideal. Put a short line down,see how you like it. It does require a lot of maintenance, points(switches) especially and track needs checking for obstructions before running. True a slug can make a mess of your running gear.


This was my railway before G scale track was laid over the existing concrete trackbed.





Before anyone says why did I give it up. I am getting older and G Scale requires less maintenance. AND MY WIFE SUGGESTED IT !! I still run my 00 stock on my friends` garden layout.[:X]

[tangerine-jack]

I agree with Powlee, do it and see what happens! What have you got to lose anyway? A little time? It might be fun. Maybe I'll give it a try after I finish 400,000 other things first.

Let's not stifle a little dreaming and fligts of fancy here! After all, Flying and Floating Captains- man ain't got wings or fins, but he does both!


[oX)]

[cacole]

I don't think there would be enough of a market for HO scale outdoors to justify the cost of tooling up to produce it. Something else that must be considered is wind -- we set up a portable HO scale modular layout in front of our clubhouse during our semi-annual open houses in May and November each year, and for the past two years now we have had to take them in early because the wind started blowing rolling stock off of the track. It doesn't take much wind, either, to blow over a small boxcar. G-scale is much heavier and more suitable for outdoor use, but I have even had cases of the wind causing my G-scale stock to rock back and forth.

[Anonymous]

A young friend of mine wanted a lay out but had to share a room with two older bro. and odd and end summer jobs would not make the money he needed for a g-scale lay out .He asked for my help and what we came up with was a modular layout that could be put up in about 10 min and take down about the same. which he uses out side and works will when not in use it takes up about 6,long 3,wide4,tall keeps in his parents Garages it is builted so it can be stacked .may be a option for you .Yes small scale is a pain to keep up out side but can be done if you have the time. good luck John

[Anonymous]

You can certainly operate any scale outdoors if you're willing to put up with the hassles and inherent disadvantages relating to maintenance, protection of the equipment from the elements, and that sort of thing.

Personally, I have no interest in operating smaller trains outdoors. I enjoy Large Scale for that purpose because it's made for outdoor use (most of it, in any case), is as affordable or more affordable than comparable trains in smaller scales, is easier to maintain, and it simply looks better on a nicely landscaped outdoor layout. It's hard enough to find plants and such that look appropriate in a Large Scale setting, and it's a heck of a lot more difficult the smaller you go.

Large Scale trains look as though they "belong" in an outdoor setting. They fit in well with the environment. Smaller trains outdoors tend to look like smaller trains outdoors; nothing more and nothing less.

I keep my smaller scales for indoor use (Z, HO, O, and On30), and my large Scale stuff (mostly LGB, Marklin, Hartland, And Accucraft) is at home both indoors and outdoors. There's sure nothing wrong with model railrading in two or more scales--although, for the sake of maintaining a reasonable hobby budget I do recommend keeping it to two, if possible.

It's your hobby. Do whatever lights your fire!

[cabbage]

I reach for my copy of Cyril Freezers 'The Garden Railway Manual' and the scond chapter begins 'Scales and gauges for Outdoor Use' -the first section is on 'N' gauge...

regards

ralph

[Anonymous]

Hi!

I was just sent this post as I am assiting with building a O Gauge Table Top Outdoors for a Scout Railroading Merit Badge for our Troop. (ww.meritbadge.com under Railroading)



O Scale Outdoors Website
http://www.trainweb.org/oscaleoutdoors/

A few awesome ideas: Not sure how salt air would affect track or electronics.
Try Posting your question for more help on
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=91


Best of Luck!
Grandmaster II

[Anonymous]

I too looked at running HO outdoors, as I already had a boat load of HO gear. Wanted to run a elevated track attached to the back yard fence, wrap around, and drop down to a garden-level track in the front. I figured I could have put in at least 200 feet of track without seriously affecting the yard space for the kids and dog. I already had the track cleaning & powering worked out. Things I ran into that discouraged me:

1. UV resistance. HO gauge stuff is not made for the outdoors. Even IF it's UV "protected", there's not enough material there to really matter. I figured I'd have to replace the track waaaay too frequently.

2. Locomotives & dirt. HO locomotives are not sealed from the dirt and weather like G is. Plan on the motors taking a real beating, and the dirt working its way into the gear boxes. Picture the sprinkling system kicking on when the train's running, or a bit of wind blowing a little dust. Not a good sight for HO trains.

3. Tolerances. G scale is much more tolerant of track mis-alignment, dirt, debris, etc. HO scale looked like it'd be a maintenance headache to keep going.

I'm still dreaming about running a garden RR, but it'll have to wait several years, at least until I finins my indoor HO layout!

Mark in Utah

[bjohns67]

I enjoyed reading through these posts; thought it would be impossible to find anyone else, like me, stupid enough to consider HO outdoors. I have a few hundred feet of HO easy track and a few trains. It's track I really don't have plans for, so why not? Summer just passed, but I think I'll set some track out now and take notes on how it fares month to month. Wonder if it will be still okay before next spring? What does the UV rays break down on typical easy track? The plastic ties or does it also affect the rails?

I was thinking battery operated/remote controlled HO trains so I never had to worry about conductivity. Any try that? And always keep the trains indoors when done...

[Anonymous]

I have listened to all of your comments on small scale rr outdoors. I have a HO layout on a table 48" wide by 27' long. It has been running since may of 2004.
I leave all my equipement out all year, when the weather gets bad,i pull over the layout a tarp. All this talk about UV ,is to my experience bull. Maybe because iam in NY the sun isnt that hot,but were experiencing mid 80's temp for days now.My power supply is in a draw under the layout,and it pulls out when needed.And it stays out all year. I never enjoyed this hobby as much as i do now,after 13 years with g scale,i went to HO,in spite of all the critisism that i first
received. It does help that i am 34" off the ground,and like all layouts one should check for obstacles prior to running.All of my track is from day one, and
my locos and cars are in perfect condition. If i were in Arizona,i would test track and rolling stock,first. But in NY its go all the way

[Anonymous]

The main concern I had with the track was the integrity of the plastic "rail spikes" on the ties. They are the flimsiest part of the track, and I figured the only part that would likely see any problem. UV will eventually cause the plastic to harden and become brittle. It's not a matter of if, but when. UV radiation will split any long-chain molecule (plastic polymer), which will reduce the overall strength and flexibility.

If the track is laid fairly stress-free, then that should contribute to longer life.

Some plastics are more inherintly UV resistant than others. Nylon and other similar plastics are better than standard PVC in that regard.

I've seen battles with various plastics for years in the electric utility business. Ugly business.

Mark in Utah

[devils]

my father's had HO in the garden for the last 15 years using peco code 100 track with all the joints bonded with wire. The line has a brick foundation with preservative treated plywood on top and roofing felt covering that, The felt has grit on it that looks good as ballast. The main problem is clearing off bits of plant and bird droppings before you run. Peco track needs very little attention even with occasional damage from animals, usually just needs re-aligning, you've got a choice as well, code 100 european or code 75 US style track.

[underworld]

As many have said Peco is great track....for indoor and outdoor. I saw a magazine from the UK around the beginning of this year (sorry I can't remember the title or month) and it had a feature on outdoor railways. There were O and quite a few HO/OO and even one in N!!! I wondere if anyone has tried Z??? [:-^]

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

underworld

[bjohns67]

Joe is the first person who has said HO outdoors can work, and that is what I was waiting to hear. I've got the track and I've got the trains and other accessories. I bet there's a bunch of people in the same boat as I; lots of HO stuff lying around and don't want to put out $1,000-3,000 to get started in G scale.

So Joe (or others) will EZ track work? I hooked up one of my RC batteries directly to an HO engine last night and got it to run so I think I can also use the transmitter, receiver, speed control I already have too. If not, I see Aristocraft makes an HO Train Engineer.

I don't mind putting down a bunch of HO track since it just floats in ballast and could easily be replaced with G scale track if necessary, but I don't want to start making HO scale buildings and bridges just to change later...

Anyone have photos of outdoor HO layouts??

[bjohns67]

Sorry, several of you have experience with working HO outdoors, not just "Joe"; sorry! Glad to hear that it actually works. I may give it a try. I already have Atlas EZ track, but I'll look into Peco track too.

[bjohns67]

Is there a UV protectant that can be sprayed on? If so, could a person spray it onto Atlas EZ track? Especially with batter power it wouldn't even be necessary to protect the rails from the spray...

Might prolong the life of the plastic...

[bjohns67]

REI makes a UV spray for plastic, rubber, etc. for about $7.

Their website says:

"Protects against fading and and wear and restores natural color to many rubber, vinyl, fiberglass and plastic products
Not oily or greasy and does not attract dust
Biodegradable product contains no petroleum distillateds, plasticizers or silicones
To apply, just spray on and wipe off"

Might have to try this. I'll put one piece of track outside without it and one sprayed with it and get back to you in a few months...

[underworld]

Check with your paint or hardware store....there are several brands available....different brands in different parts of the country.


underworld

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

[CSXect]

I do not know about HO outside other than I seen some badly warped cars at an outdoor fleamarket once.

O gauge outside you can use Gargraves Stainless steel track with UV ties,I bought some as well as some g track but have not tryed an outdoor layout yet.