My first post and basic question

[Anonymous]

Hi there members! I am an ex-HO modeler (gave it up about 10 years ago because the parts seemed to shrink!) and I have been bitten by the Garden RR bug! My wife is an avid professional garden designer and has granted me space in the garden - she is an expert on plants. I need some reference materials to start.

I don't want to go the LGB way, I want US prototypes, and I want to build my strutctures and bridges from natural materials rather than using plastic. I live in the Chicago area. I expect to buid an out-and-back for now with a twisted loop at one end and a turntable and small yard at the other, with 40' and 50' boxcars, gondolas and the like.

Can someone recommend a good starting point to learn about: Tracklaying, Basic scenery construction (we're not talking Dave Frary here,) basic command control and building some structures that are not shake-the-$200-plastic-LGB-box? Are there kits of US prototypes, or plans for US prototypes which can be built using doll-house or other modelling materials?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks

[:)]

[Anonymous]

Hi Sabafuad,
and [#welcome]
The best way to learn about track laying is to get out there and do it, there are a few ways and I think everyone gets there by trial and error. It all depends on what sort of ground you have, rocky, well drained, swampy. How are you? can you get down to ground level or do you want it 2' off the ground. Do you want the RR to be instantly noticeable or to blend with the garden. Lots of variables and only you has the answer. A few of us here float our track in a bed of gravel, dig down a few inches, infill with gravel and level off with a finer gravel for the ballast. Some set blocks into the ground and fix the track before ballasting. My control is very easy, Aristo Train Engineer drives one loco but has the capability to control many, a few of the guys use LGB digital and a lot use on board batteries, again you will settle on your own way. Track cleaning is a great decider in the battery/track power debate, a lot of track takes a long time to clean. Scenery? let your garden be itself. Buildings are another personal choice, I have a few bird houses from the local supermarket at less than £3 each, a lot build very detailed buildings. The best advice I can give is to get out there and put some track down, Aristo is good, 8' diameter minimum for todays big loco's and run a train, plenty of starter sets from USA/Aristo/LGB etc.
Most of all, enjoy!!
Cheers,
Kim
[tup]

[John Busby]

Hi sabafuad
[#welcome]
Kim has covered things reasoably well I to would sugest a start set just to get trains moving.
You mention a desire to build your own stock and In whixh case I would sugest a look at the pull out. plans forum on this web site as there are
a number of scratch building classes there that where conducted by
Toenail ridge canot remember the plan no's but there is an ore car.
box car, reefer and bobber caboose with interior
Also look at
The scratch build and kit bash forum also on this site where a store is built with an interior
and the you used what to make that thread.

As for plans
Garden Railways Magazine has pullout plans in it and you are sure to find something usefull in that.
some of the older ones can be found on the sidestreet banner works web site go to general descusion forum on this site and the sticky at the top of the list is usfull linkes have a look in there some where is the link to sidestreet banner works
hope this lot is of some use
regards John

[whiterab]

QUOTE: building some structures that are not shake-the-$200-plastic-LGB-box

My favorite part of the layout is buiding the structures.

There is a limited number of companies selling plans and kits for buildings but luckily there are some good ones.

Two I have used and gladly recommend are Garden Texture and Smith Pond Junction. Both will sell you basic plans or will sell you complete kits. Definately not "Shake and Bake"

Building for outside is very different than modelling an indoor layout. There are always compromises that have to be made so your buildings and bridges can stand rainfall and sun. Remember a nice soaking rain for you is a scale 20" rain for your layout.

Both of the above companies are very helpful in how to build outside.

Some quick notes:
Garden Texture: http://www.gardentexture.com/ If anything, Bob over-engineers his structures and bridges. You can stand on my big bridge and drop kick the buildings. His kits are all redwood and/or cedar. Plans are easy to modify once you get the hang of it so your building doesn't have to look like anyone elses. Bob encourages this and will glad to help you over the phone.

Smith Pond Junction: http://www.spjrr.com/ Mark and Sue's buildings are more closer to scale design than Bob's but not as strong. Mark uses only scale cut red cedar in his structures. They too are very helpful

I have kits from both these companies and have been very happy with the results. The trade off between strength and using truly scale wood is a trade off that only you can make. I'd try one of each to see which is most enjoyable for you to build.

Once you get the techniques for outside structures, it gets easy to develop your own plans. Both companies will gladly sell you bulk wood if you don't have the proper equipment to cut your own stock.

For books, a quick search on Amazon for "Garden Railroad" will get you several good books to give you the starter information about the hobby.

[smcgill]

Chicago!
I smell a convention in the area!
Go see and go visit some open house layouts!
Ask aboute the clubs in the area, they love to give advice.

[Rene Schweitzer]

As usual, the bunch here has given you lots of advice. I only wanted to add that if you're looking for a garden railway club, go here: http://www.gardentrains.org/gta/community/clubs/clubs.asp

[Anonymous]

Sabafuad [#welcome]
when you get started it's never ending, you add this, you add that and it gets bigger and bigger , BUT IT'S A LOT OF FUN, I have a pond in mine , and i'm weighting on a new aristo craft RS-3 engine , TO add to my collection of 10 desiels and 37 cars.
have fun with your GRR. BEN[:)]

[tangerine-jack]

Ex HO?? Hallelujah we have a convert!

A few of your new rules:

1. "Dave Frary" is only just a name to you now, real dirt is your benchwork, and nature is your scenery. [bow]

2. Go to your new hobby stores, ie Home Depot and Lowes, and buy shovels and work gloves, you'll need them.[wow]

3. Start lifting weights, G scale locos have real mass, no dinky little toy crap here![:-,]

4. Precision scale no longer exist for you as a concept, your scenery will always be 1:1 no matter how hard you try to deny that fact.[:o)]

5. Huge amounts of fun are mandatory in the garden [:D]

Welcome!


[oX)]

[GP-9_Man11786]

My advice when it comes to track and wiring is to over-engineer. Uses the wides possible curves, your trains will run better through them and look nicer too. Lay your track with a level, always make sure it's level latterally and that tracks joints are smooth. When I wire my track, I place feeds every five feet. I use solid copper 14-guage 3-wire (The kind used to wire houses. All joints are soldered, coated with aristo-craft electricly-conductive greese and wire-nutted.

My other piece of advice I have is to photograph every step of the railroad's evolution. Take a few shots of the area before during and after construction. Create a nice photo album. On a rainy day, I love to pull out the old photos and remenis.

[John Busby]

Hi Tangerine jack
I think that should read precision scale is a concept only,
but the reality is over fussy scale modeling is a thing of the past.
If some one wants to build a scale model its a lot easier in our sizes than
in HO no magnifying glass required to see the bolts and bigger bits of wood.
But some things should just be left off our trains as they break to easy
in the garden.
After all the Garden Railway Mag plans do state a scale and give conversion rates for other scales.
Hmm! had to think about that so that al be $2.50[:o)][swg]
regards John

[markperr]

Allan Miller has a book about getting started in Garden Railroading. It's pretty contemporary as he just published it two or three years ago.

You've found a great site here to get your particular answers. Another is Mylargescale.com.

Feel free to ask specific questions as you begin your journey. you'll get great answers from lots of experienced GRR's at either website.

As for wanting to run US Prototype, you didn't mention if you wanted to run narrow gauge or mainline modern diesel. Bachmann and Hartland Motor Works are good sources, but don't discount LGB. One of their most prolific and successful locos is the Mogul, and it's a helluva good runner. They also produce the Mikado and the Mallett. Both U.S. Steam Prototypes.

As for modern diesel (and end era steam), Aristocraft and USA Trains are your best bet. They both run at 1:29th scale. MTH also produces Mainline Modern but they scale out at 1:32. Again, don't discount LGB. They produce many pieces of rolling stock that scale out very close to 1:29th. They are also in the process of introducing a modern Amtrak train, slated for early 2006.

What smcgill is referring to is the national largescale convention is being held in Chicago this year. You couldn't have picked a better time to decide to venture into largescale. Here is the link to the website http://store.21ngrc.com/. It's going on from the 26th to the 31st of July. I highly encourage you to go and take a look around. And go on the tours. You'll meet a lot of locals, I'm sure, and it will expand your knowledge base exponentionally.

Good luck, keep posting and welcome to the world of Largescale Railroading

Mark

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by markperr

.................................................
Again, don't discount LGB. They produce many pieces of rolling stock that scale out very close to 1:29th. They are also in the process of introducing a modern Amtrak train, slated for early 2006.

...............................................................................
Good luck, keep posting and welcome to the world of Largescale Railroading

Mark

Hi there,

Actually I like LGB the best when it is discounted, it has a tendency to be overpriced! [;)][:)]
As for the "close to 1:29 scale", that needs to be decided piece by piece and LGB is of little help to the modeler, as they steadfastly refuse to state a scale for the NA items.
OTOH if anyone knows where they (LGB) state the scale, please let me know, I'll appreciate it!

[Bucksco]

"G" [;)]

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Bucksco

"G" [;)]

Hi Jack, [;)][;)]

Careful now, we have the "exact and official" German definition of "G" from Mr. Biedenbacher at EPL.

Need I say that it is hilarious enough to cause scale modelers (regardless of what scale they work in) to be rolling on the floor?!? [;)][}:)][;)][:p][:p][:p][:D]

BTW I'm constantly expanding the "G" definition - little sport of mine - the latest is "Generous in the scale department" i.e. if you expect an item to be one scale, but you get three (or more) in the bargain, I call that Generous. [;)][:D][:D]

PS Quite some time ago (probably five years or so) I coined the "G= Gummi" term. For the uninitiated: "Gummi" is the German term for rubber, a compound that compresses, stretches, inflates and collapses. Quite similar to what happens when G items get designed, with the proviso that some mfgs are more "rubbery" than others.
Two years ago I wrote a feuilleton for a German garden railways magazine and the "G= Gummi" term has found ready acceptance among the German Large Scale fraternity. [;)][:)]

[Bucksco]

G=45mm

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Bucksco

G=45mm

Hi Jack,

Very good! [;)][:D][:D][:D]

One more convert to the "I don't give a fig what "scale" means or what "gauge" means! Never mind the difference!" crowd??? [:0][:0][:)][:)]

[Bucksco]

As I've stated in the past -I work for a TOY train company.
I have noticed that all of the various scale pieces out there that are designated as "G scale" have one element in common. They all run on the same track. Who developed the track....You guessed it ! LGB.[;)]

[Bucksco]

BTW- I think it is unfair to make brash assumptions about how one percieves the "scale" question. Having worked as a prototype design engineer for the better part of twenty years I am well aware of fidelity in scale. I do believe that products in a "program" should be compatible and non exclusive. I don't quite understand why this bothers some folks out there - if you don't care for a manufacturer's way of doing things don't buy thier products! It's that simple!

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Bucksco

As I've stated in the past -I work for a TOY train company.
I have noticed that all of the various scale pieces out there the are designated as "G scale" have one element in common. They all run on the same track. Who developed the track....You guessed it ! LGB.[;)]

Hi there Jack,

No problem!

If I remember history correctly Märklin preceded LGB in that department by a "few" years.

QUOTE: 1895 Einführung der ersten mit Dampf und Elektrizität betriebenen Spielzeugeisenbahn in Spur 1 (45 mm).

From the Märklin website documenting the company history.

QUOTE: 1895 Introduction of the first Live Steam and Electric Toy train running on Gauge1 track (45mm)

HJ's translation

[;)][;)][:)][:)]

[Bucksco]

I'll give you that one but I'd be curious as to who has produced and sold more of it!

[Capt Bob Johnson]

Boy, talk about scale/thread drift!

Can't say as I can add much to what has already been said; however, I think you'll be happier in the long run to use the largest curve radius that you can fit in the space allowed. It would even be worth a set of good diamond errings to get her to allow more space!

[pnevell]

I noticed your reference to natural materials for buildings. If you haven't gone yet, go immediately to Chicago Botanical Garden and check out the railway there. Every structure, bridge, building, etc. is made using twigs, shells, nuts and such. It's truly fantastic what they accomplished. Take your camera!
Paul Nevell